Which kit car for around £5K
Discussion
Hi, i am a 17 year old and wanting to do motorsports engineering at uni. I am really interested in getting a kit but would be on quite a tight budget. i am a kit car virgin and although i love tinkering i have never fiddled with car engines. i have no practical experience with building a car as yet. i would need something that is cheap to buy and reasonably cheap to upkeep and also very easy to work on, ill never be able to afford the insurance so my dad would be driving and i would obnly drive on car parks or something. I was thinking along the lines of an MEV rocket as only one donor is required and looks fairly simple to build. Is there any advice you could offer me with buying and or building a cheap, fun kit.
Can you bake a cake by following the instructions step by step in the recipe?
Do you have patience and some attention to detail?
If yes, then buy yourself the "haynes roadster" book....Buy some steel and follow the guidance in the book to the letter. You will end up with a nice car, and the insurance might suprise you...
People with engineering degrees and no concept of what "engineering" actuall is get right on my nuts!
Do you have patience and some attention to detail?
If yes, then buy yourself the "haynes roadster" book....Buy some steel and follow the guidance in the book to the letter. You will end up with a nice car, and the insurance might suprise you...
People with engineering degrees and no concept of what "engineering" actuall is get right on my nuts!
I would see the thread "kit car for £3k" and work from there. Why spend £5k when you can spend £3k? sounds like you want something to rebuild anyway so buy a cheaper one, rebuild it over the years, pop a newer engine in it etc...
More interesting where you going to go to Uni? Theres a small Uni called NEWI in Wrexham that does some very impressive car engineering stuff, they have a race car students can work on and everything!.
More interesting where you going to go to Uni? Theres a small Uni called NEWI in Wrexham that does some very impressive car engineering stuff, they have a race car students can work on and everything!.
yes, Although i like the sound of building a locost by the book i dont actually think that they are very safe, not that any kit car is truly "safe". also i have no experience with welding and although tempted by the price dont have access to any welding equipment. I am considering going to uni at hertfordshire where you have the oportunity to build a formula student car and race them. I went to the open day just this saturday and was very impressed by the cars, carts and hovercraft they make alongside the course. they are currently racing three cars in the formula student race series and they also have a wind tunnel, rolling road and an engine tuning and testing rig. I will look into the other courses you have suggested though as they sound quite appealing.
Kit cars not truely safe?
I beg to differ as I'm sure a lot of other people will.
How about a Jeep Cheroke rolling over the top of a GTM Libra and the car being repaired and the driver being totaly unhurt?
Another one hitting the central reservation at motorway speeds, sliding for a 100 yards and both driver and passenger walking away unhurt?
I would say most modern kitcars are over engineered for the road, more to racing standards and if properly built are far safer than a 5 year old euro hatch. I know I would rather have an accident in my Libra than my MK2 Golf GTI!
I beg to differ as I'm sure a lot of other people will.
How about a Jeep Cheroke rolling over the top of a GTM Libra and the car being repaired and the driver being totaly unhurt?
Another one hitting the central reservation at motorway speeds, sliding for a 100 yards and both driver and passenger walking away unhurt?
I would say most modern kitcars are over engineered for the road, more to racing standards and if properly built are far safer than a 5 year old euro hatch. I know I would rather have an accident in my Libra than my MK2 Golf GTI!
motorheadmadness said:
yes, Although i like the sound of building a locost by the book i dont actually think that they are very safe, not that any kit car is truly "safe".
If that's what you think then I'd walk away from the specialist car market now, mate. You know you can buy cars with loads of airbags in if you want?? 
In that case i am very sorry for upsetting those of you who do have kit cars, i have obviously not done my homework on this subject as well as i could have done, partially due to my A level exams, as i said i am only 17 years old and dont really know much about kit cars hence why i posted this question for some help and advice. i know that kit cars are very strong and ridgid, partially part of the reason why i thought that they were not as safe (jerky in accidents and no crumple zones). Please can you help me make an informed and well advised choice on this matter, this is a very important matter to me and although £5K isnt much to a lot of people, it is to me and therefore i need to be extra careful when making a decision on this matter. sorry and thankyou for informing me of their strength and safety.
motorheadmadness said:
Please can you help me make an informed and well advised choice on this matter, this is a very important matter to me and although £5K isnt much to a lot of people
As i say every time this thread appears I was a novice when i built my first car, and i built a robin hood. It was great. I learned s
t loads. So dont be put off by real budget kit cars.also if you cant weld.. how about getting a mig and a guide book and practice? For me welding is one of lifes great pleasures! (and im not great at it...)
Why dont you try and make your own decision? I think you should get and see as many suppliers as possible, and ask them the questions. (Gary at DAX for example is very friendly and very 'clued up' - I cant recommend them enough)
motorheadmadness said:
In that case i am very sorry for upsetting those of you who do have kit cars, i have obviously not done my homework on this subject as well as i could have done, partially due to my A level exams, as i said i am only 17 years old and dont really know much about kit cars hence why i posted this question for some help and advice. i know that kit cars are very strong and ridgid, partially part of the reason why i thought that they were not as safe (jerky in accidents and no crumple zones). Please can you help me make an informed and well advised choice on this matter, this is a very important matter to me and although £5K isnt much to a lot of people, it is to me and therefore i need to be extra careful when making a decision on this matter. sorry and thankyou for informing me of their strength and safety.
Please don't "take the pip" about the above comments. You have to learn and I guess like I was at 17, sometimes say the right thing in the wrong context.Like the poster above said, many "kit cars" are now built to race standard, but there again, some are not. Some are downright dangerous, although generally due to the builder rather than the kit itself. Whilst the above poster said and I guess I would agree his GTM is extremely strong. I had a Clan many years ago and that with only a "rope roll cage" would happily take the weight of the car on its roof or so I was told....
I also had a Caterham which, whilst extremely well designed, and I think well put together, would obviously not withstand the same sort of impact, particulary side impact, that say my current Volvo would endure.
Horses for courses, good luck with your project, a kit could be a good way of learning about cars as they are sometimes more simple in their mechanics by the use of older vehicle bases. The base cars would probably be rusted wrecks and working on a rusting wreck is a sure way of putting you off.
motorheadmadness said:
Hi, i am a 17 year old and wanting to do motorsports engineering at uni. I am really interested in getting a kit but would be on quite a tight budget. i am a kit car virgin and although i love tinkering i have never fiddled with car engines. i have no practical experience with building a car as yet. i would need something that is cheap to buy and reasonably cheap to upkeep and also very easy to work on, ill never be able to afford the insurance so my dad would be driving and i would obnly drive on car parks or something. I was thinking along the lines of an MEV rocket as only one donor is required and looks fairly simple to build. Is there any advice you could offer me with buying and or building a cheap, fun kit.
Are you planning to go to Swansea by any chance? If so, I'd suggest getting involved with the Locost or Formula Student team first and you'll come out ready to build anything.The only car I've ever actually built was a Locost (I fabricated one chassis for myself and helped out on the uni car too) and that was in that very workshop...
Anyway, back on topic. The Rocket sounds like a reasonable idea - I'm led to believe you can build one for that sort of price. Give Stuart Mills a shout at MEV and discuss it - he seems helpful.
yeah, i did have a look at swansea uni but i am living in cheshire at the moment and although it is a very good uni i believe for motor sports i think that it is too far to travel for me and i think it is quite difficult to get there using public transport, unlike hertfordshire. i was also looking at coventry and am going to the open day there on saturday. i was very impressed with hertfordshire as the students are running 3 cars in the formula student series and they also have a nuber of high spec carts that the students have built and also a hovercraft. thanks for the info about MEV and help in general
Although there's less crash resistance in most kits than a production car, you have to remember they're also generally a lot lighter so there's less energy to dissipate if you're unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident. Side impact is an issue for Seven-esque cars like Westfields and Locosts, but there are ways around that if its a concern, with a full cage etc.
Going off topic slightly if I may, regarding your choice of course, can I just suggest that if the practical side of engineering is your main interest, you make sure you ask lots of questions to make absolutely sure the course you pick is what you expect it to be.
I was in the same boat to you when I was looking for an Automotive / Mech Eng course, albeit about 15 years ago now. Im a very practically minded person, I like seeing, making and experimenting rather than learning from a book / whiteboard. What I found on the open days is that its very easy to be sucked in when seeing the Formula Student project (or Formula SAE as it was when I was at uni) and all the engine labs etc, and you leave thinking that you'll be doing practical stuff like that week in week out.
The reality of an engineering degree is generally quite different though, there's far more theory involved that I was ever led to believe, mainly maths and physics (our tutor once said we were doing about 70% of a maths degree!), with comparatively few practical engineering modules. In my case at Brunel, I worked in the engine labs only twice but not until the final year, and the FSAE team, again only for final year students, was picked purely on academic achievements (ie those who could do all the maths and physics!) rather than people that maybe had better real world engineering / mechanical skills, so I didnt manage to get involved in that having not been predicted to achieve a first or 2.1.
I think some of the ex polytechnics do have more practical sylabuses than the established unis, and in the last few years there's been more specialist courses added that focus more on the motorsport area, but its important to remember its engineering not a motorsport mechanic course, any engineering degree is still going to involve quite a lot of maths and physics theory so if you don't enjoy that side of it then pick the course carefully.
Chris
Going off topic slightly if I may, regarding your choice of course, can I just suggest that if the practical side of engineering is your main interest, you make sure you ask lots of questions to make absolutely sure the course you pick is what you expect it to be.
I was in the same boat to you when I was looking for an Automotive / Mech Eng course, albeit about 15 years ago now. Im a very practically minded person, I like seeing, making and experimenting rather than learning from a book / whiteboard. What I found on the open days is that its very easy to be sucked in when seeing the Formula Student project (or Formula SAE as it was when I was at uni) and all the engine labs etc, and you leave thinking that you'll be doing practical stuff like that week in week out.
The reality of an engineering degree is generally quite different though, there's far more theory involved that I was ever led to believe, mainly maths and physics (our tutor once said we were doing about 70% of a maths degree!), with comparatively few practical engineering modules. In my case at Brunel, I worked in the engine labs only twice but not until the final year, and the FSAE team, again only for final year students, was picked purely on academic achievements (ie those who could do all the maths and physics!) rather than people that maybe had better real world engineering / mechanical skills, so I didnt manage to get involved in that having not been predicted to achieve a first or 2.1.
I think some of the ex polytechnics do have more practical sylabuses than the established unis, and in the last few years there's been more specialist courses added that focus more on the motorsport area, but its important to remember its engineering not a motorsport mechanic course, any engineering degree is still going to involve quite a lot of maths and physics theory so if you don't enjoy that side of it then pick the course carefully.
Chris
LocoBlade said:
Although there's less crash resistance in most kits than a production car, you have to remember they're also generally a lot lighter so there's less energy to dissipate if you're unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident.
You're also less likely to hit something.I'd hazard a guess that a well setup Westfield will swerve round a numptie who's just pulled out on you far more effectively than a lardy saloon, not to mention braking more effectively.
I mention it because I had exactly that happen to me a few years ago in my first kit and I know for a fact the hatchback I was tooling round in until the previous weekend would have understeered straight into the side of him. It wouldn't have been pretty.
bought a proper sylva phoenix for 4000. a nice ginetta G4S4 for 2000. a friend bought another slyva Phoenix in good conditon with some work needed on electrics (car had new mot and freshly rebuilt and tuned x-flow engine, incl. drysump) for 2500 and another friend bought an extreme good westfield seven with independant rear suspension and freshly rebuilt lotus twincam big valve engine for 4000.
so buying a project or basket case for 2000 or 3000 isnt worth the money.
so buying a project or basket case for 2000 or 3000 isnt worth the money.
Edited by Comadis on Friday 27th June 23:48
Have to agree with the crashing a kit car bit, they are very strong. I unfortunately aquaplaned my Fury through a French motorway armco barrier via a huge puddle, about 50 mph to an INSTANT stop in 8 feet. Biggest bang I have ever heard, and a lesson in not going too fast in a thunderstorm on Yoko 48R's....... BUT both of us walked away completely unharmed, just ears ringing a bit. Chassis was totally undamaged behind the front bulkhead and passenger compartment 100% perfect. 5 point harnesses helped massivley. And the car has been rebuilt with a new front chassis and is back on the road 100% perfect again. Agree that you would not want an X5 to T-bone you, but what car would you? And i would rather roll a kit car with a rear cage than almost any production convertible car.
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