Are Track Days getting more or less drivers into racing?
Discussion
I can't help but wonder whether the growth in trackdays in recent years has lead to a greater participation in racing or a reduction as drivers can better enjoy the relaxed atmosphere of driving on a track day rather than entering races.
I am aware that were it not for trackdays most of our circuits would now be housing estates as races and the odd promotional event would never have paid the circuit's bills.
I am aware that were it not for trackdays most of our circuits would now be housing estates as races and the odd promotional event would never have paid the circuit's bills.
norasport said:
I can't help but wonder whether the growth in trackdays in recent years has lead to a greater participation in racing or a reduction as drivers can better enjoy the relaxed atmosphere of driving on a track day rather than entering races.
I am aware that were it not for trackdays most of our circuits would now be housing estates as races and the odd promotional event would never have paid the circuit's bills.
The amount of track time for the cost on a trackday is superb when compared to racing, where with the larger series, the entry fee is more expensive than the average track day, and your track time consists of 15/20 mins practice/qually and a 20 min race.I am aware that were it not for trackdays most of our circuits would now be housing estates as races and the odd promotional event would never have paid the circuit's bills.
However... unless everyone on a trackday is of similar ability and/or pace, it can become very frustrating, as has been alluded to many times. With a race, it's anything goes, within the confines of sporting conduct, etc, etc.
Different folks different strokes. Personally, I get a larger sense of achievement from racing than from a t/day, but still have up to a 6 trips a year over at the 'Ring to keep my track day experience alive!!
Believe it or not, after a few meetings, when you've had a chance to get to know people, most race paddocks are far more relaxed than a trackday paddock (in my experience), as the same guys are racing against each other week in, week out and it gets a good cameraderie going.
I took my old road car (MKII Golf GTI) on a track day at Snetterton about 3 years ago. I only wnet to make the numbers up and after that day I became hooked.
After several more events that year the GTI Racing Series was announced and it seemed like a logical step up. I am now in my 2nd year of racing and love every minute.
If I had not previously tracked my Golf I would still be indecisive about preparing and entering my car in what is now the GTI Championship.
After several more events that year the GTI Racing Series was announced and it seemed like a logical step up. I am now in my 2nd year of racing and love every minute.
If I had not previously tracked my Golf I would still be indecisive about preparing and entering my car in what is now the GTI Championship.
Not racing as such but having done trackdays for sometime i recently looked into hillclimbs / sprinting.
Basically i was looking for something that was on a par cost wise, added a competitve element to the day but also retained a similar "relaxed" atmosphere to that of a trackday.
After a bit of resesarch i found that the car didn't appear to need to much spending on it to comply and the relevant racing licence required was relatively easy to obtain.
Also, on balance, the cost for a days sprinting / hillclimbing was fairly comparable to that of a trackday.
Unfortunately i can't stretch to doing both sprinting / hillclimbing with trackday's thrown in to boot so for now have decided to stick with trackdays.
Reasons why?
1. Greater amounts of tracktime on a trackday.
2. Flexibility of choosing events to suit as opposed to being "tied" to a championship / venues / dates.
3. Could see me wanting to be competitive "in class" if sprinting / hillcliming so no doubt would throw more money at the car
4. Preference of circuits over the single track nature of sprint and hillclimb venues.
Please note i'm not knocking sprinting / hillclimbing in any way as it's something i would like to do, however until such time as budget permits my participation in both types of event my available cash will continue to head in the direction of trackdays.
Cheers.
Basically i was looking for something that was on a par cost wise, added a competitve element to the day but also retained a similar "relaxed" atmosphere to that of a trackday.
After a bit of resesarch i found that the car didn't appear to need to much spending on it to comply and the relevant racing licence required was relatively easy to obtain.
Also, on balance, the cost for a days sprinting / hillclimbing was fairly comparable to that of a trackday.
Unfortunately i can't stretch to doing both sprinting / hillclimbing with trackday's thrown in to boot so for now have decided to stick with trackdays.
Reasons why?
1. Greater amounts of tracktime on a trackday.
2. Flexibility of choosing events to suit as opposed to being "tied" to a championship / venues / dates.
3. Could see me wanting to be competitive "in class" if sprinting / hillcliming so no doubt would throw more money at the car
4. Preference of circuits over the single track nature of sprint and hillclimb venues.
Please note i'm not knocking sprinting / hillclimbing in any way as it's something i would like to do, however until such time as budget permits my participation in both types of event my available cash will continue to head in the direction of trackdays.
Cheers.
pugster said:
Also, on balance, the cost for a days sprinting / hillclimbing was fairly comparable to that of a trackday.
Unfortunately i can't stretch to doing both sprinting / hillclimbing with trackday's thrown in to boot so for now have decided to stick with trackdays.
Reasons why?
1. Greater amounts of tracktime on a trackday.
Damn right. I sprint/hillclimb (TVRCC Speed Championship), and 'per minute' or 'per mile' it's *terrible* VfM. I get less than an hour of competitive motorsport a *year*. It probably costs £50/minute ....Unfortunately i can't stretch to doing both sprinting / hillclimbing with trackday's thrown in to boot so for now have decided to stick with trackdays.
Reasons why?
1. Greater amounts of tracktime on a trackday.
Zumbruk said:
pugster said:
Also, on balance, the cost for a days sprinting / hillclimbing was fairly comparable to that of a trackday.
Unfortunately i can't stretch to doing both sprinting / hillclimbing with trackday's thrown in to boot so for now have decided to stick with trackdays.
Reasons why?
1. Greater amounts of tracktime on a trackday.
Damn right. I sprint/hillclimb (TVRCC Speed Championship), and 'per minute' or 'per mile' it's *terrible* VfM. I get less than an hour of competitive motorsport a *year*. It probably costs £50/minute ....Unfortunately i can't stretch to doing both sprinting / hillclimbing with trackday's thrown in to boot so for now have decided to stick with trackdays.
Reasons why?
1. Greater amounts of tracktime on a trackday.
Maybe if you went slower the VFM ratio/hr/ year would improve.........
Out of interest (assuming you have done some trackdays) how do they compare with your experience of sprint/hillclimb?
Do you prefer one "discipline" over the other or are they completely different experiences in your opinion?
Cheers.
This is how it developed for me.
I used to do track days in my Tuscan 2 which was great fun but I was always worried about pranging it as I got more "adventurous". I then bought a cheap, ex Tuscan Challenge, Racing Tasmin just for Track days.
Big Mistake!!!!!!! I got the bug, so I thought I would enter the TVR Speed Championships, just for fun because I'm not "that" competitive. Am I?. I then realised that, actually, I was competitive and grew horns every time I got onto the start line.
I then decided to take the ARDS test and passed.
What do I do then, but enter the Dunlop TVR Tuscan Challenge series. I have my first race next month at Anglesey. I'm absolutely bricking it!!!!!
There is one thing for sure, I can't afford to do it all as its costing me an arm and a leg at the moment. After this year is out, and assuming I've still got a car left, I'll make my mind up what I'll be doing next year.
So, to sum up, its trackdays that got me into racing.
IMHO track days are the best value for money.
Racing in the Tuscan Challenge will be next best, but for the time actually spent on track, hillclimbs and sprints are definitely the worst VFM.
I used to do track days in my Tuscan 2 which was great fun but I was always worried about pranging it as I got more "adventurous". I then bought a cheap, ex Tuscan Challenge, Racing Tasmin just for Track days.
Big Mistake!!!!!!! I got the bug, so I thought I would enter the TVR Speed Championships, just for fun because I'm not "that" competitive. Am I?. I then realised that, actually, I was competitive and grew horns every time I got onto the start line.
I then decided to take the ARDS test and passed.
What do I do then, but enter the Dunlop TVR Tuscan Challenge series. I have my first race next month at Anglesey. I'm absolutely bricking it!!!!!
There is one thing for sure, I can't afford to do it all as its costing me an arm and a leg at the moment. After this year is out, and assuming I've still got a car left, I'll make my mind up what I'll be doing next year.
So, to sum up, its trackdays that got me into racing.
IMHO track days are the best value for money.
Racing in the Tuscan Challenge will be next best, but for the time actually spent on track, hillclimbs and sprints are definitely the worst VFM.
NTEL said:
What do I do then, but enter the Dunlop TVR Tuscan Challenge series. I have my first race next month at Anglesey. I'm absolutely bricking it!!!!!
If you're racing on the full circuit at Anglesey, be aware that there are effectively 3 hairpins, and a tight 2nd gear left hander, where there will be an outbraking frenzy. The worst corner in terms of accident potential is the uphill 90 degree left hander after the 6th gear long fast right which runs parallel to the sea (you'll see when you get there). Be very aware of people coming up the inside here. They may be coming up the inside *very* quickly at this point! The other two 180 degree bends aren't too badIf it's your first race, be extra vigilent for the leaders when they lap you (this isn't a nasty comment, but more from experience) and for blue flags.
Good luck, and enjoy the race. If you have a standing start (as opposed to a rolling start), you also need to be aware of the potential of running up through the gearbox into the 1st left hand corner with other cars leaning on you!
fergus said:
NTEL said:
What do I do then, but enter the Dunlop TVR Tuscan Challenge series. I have my first race next month at Anglesey. I'm absolutely bricking it!!!!!
If you're racing on the full circuit at Anglesey, be aware that there are effectively 3 hairpins, and a tight 2nd gear left hander, where there will be an outbraking frenzy. The worst corner in terms of accident potential is the uphill 90 degree left hander after the 6th gear long fast right which runs parallel to the sea (you'll see when you get there). Be very aware of people coming up the inside here. They may be coming up the inside *very* quickly at this point! The other two 180 degree bends aren't too badIf it's your first race, be extra vigilent for the leaders when they lap you (this isn't a nasty comment, but more from experience) and for blue flags.
Good luck, and enjoy the race. If you have a standing start (as opposed to a rolling start), you also need to be aware of the potential of running up through the gearbox into the 1st left hand corner with other cars leaning on you!
Thanks for the advice anyway. I need all I can get.
They are getting me into racing too. My e36 m3 race car is still being prepped, but shall be out this year I am certain.
I'm always amazed at people who started racing having never been on track before. That takes some balls, or someone else paying because to drop that kind of money on a hunch you might like it is a big step!
I'm always amazed at people who started racing having never been on track before. That takes some balls, or someone else paying because to drop that kind of money on a hunch you might like it is a big step!
Track days and racing are very different. Track days are very relaxed and generally very safe whereas actual racing is definitely not relaxed and considerably more hazardous for both car and driver. However, the excitement and adrenalin rush of racing is well worth the reduced track time when compared with track days IMO, but it is much more expensive in car maintenance and repairs. If you can afford it - go for it, but your race car may become the most important and expensive item in your life! Also you will be surprised at just how agressive and hectic it is when you start racing as compared to track days.
I would advise that your first few races are at tracks you know, so there is one less thing to worry about. For anyone that takes the big step into racing, I wish you the very best of luck and even some success eventually.
I would advise that your first few races are at tracks you know, so there is one less thing to worry about. For anyone that takes the big step into racing, I wish you the very best of luck and even some success eventually.
chrissimp said:
Also you will be surprised at just how agressive and hectic it is when you start racing as compared to track days.
I remember chatting to a bloke who did a couple of seasons in the 750MC 'Locost' series. He to thought that because its an amateur series and everyone is paying to be there it would be very relaxed and polite and be more like a trackday with overtaking allowed.WRONG...he said his first race was terrifying and he made a mess of it all but was also instantly hooked on the adrenaline.
He said the biggest suprise was the agressive start...he thought that if he went hard as soon as the lights go green he would plow in to the car in front so he hesitated a fraction of a second only to find everyone behind streaming past and the bloke in front screaming ahead and in to the middle of the first corner melee!
DanH said:
They are getting me into racing too. My e36 m3 race car is still being prepped, but shall be out this year I am certain.
I'm always amazed at people who started racing having never been on track before. That takes some balls, or someone else paying because to drop that kind of money on a hunch you might like it is a big step!
DanI'm always amazed at people who started racing having never been on track before. That takes some balls, or someone else paying because to drop that kind of money on a hunch you might like it is a big step!
Which series would you enter? Some series are a *lot* more competitive than others...
Also, I'd strongly suggest getting a HANS device, as our series has had a couple of 100mph+ crashes where the drivers have been wearing HANS devices, and both said they didn't even have a sore neck the next day. In my opinion, it would seem silly to spend £k's on the car and forget to spend the additional £500 on driver safety.
Are you over at the Ring this weekend?
chrs
NTEL said:
What do I do then, but enter the Dunlop TVR Tuscan Challenge series. I have my first race next month at Anglesey. I'm absolutely bricking it!!!!!
There is one thing for sure, I can't afford to do it all as its costing me an arm and a leg at the moment. After this year is out, and assuming I've still got a car left, I'll make my mind up what I'll be doing next year.
I did my first race at Anglesey a fortnight ago and the whole experience was brilliant. I expected to be a bag of nerves on my first grid but to be honest the race itself was less stressful than my first test session the day before! Top tip is to try to get on a test day before you race and get used to faster guys diving either side of you!There is one thing for sure, I can't afford to do it all as its costing me an arm and a leg at the moment. After this year is out, and assuming I've still got a car left, I'll make my mind up what I'll be doing next year.
As someone else has commented the atmosphere/camaraderie in the paddock is tremendous.
I've always enjoyed trackdays but once I've learned a circuit the sessions can tend to get a bit 'samey' and I find I don't concentrate as well in the afternoon and I often miss the last session or so and quit while I'm ahead. Racing was a whole different experience, absolutely massive buzz.
I did a hillclimb a few years ago in my Westy and although I enjoyed it I didn't do any more - it was a whole heap of effort for not much driving time and what you do get is on cold tyres and often with minimal/no run off.
I'll see how the rest of this season goes but suspect I'll be prepared to give up some of the more expensive toys to keep it going.
fergus said:
DanH said:
They are getting me into racing too. My e36 m3 race car is still being prepped, but shall be out this year I am certain.
I'm always amazed at people who started racing having never been on track before. That takes some balls, or someone else paying because to drop that kind of money on a hunch you might like it is a big step!
DanI'm always amazed at people who started racing having never been on track before. That takes some balls, or someone else paying because to drop that kind of money on a hunch you might like it is a big step!
Which series would you enter? Some series are a *lot* more competitive than others...
Also, I'd strongly suggest getting a HANS device, as our series has had a couple of 100mph+ crashes where the drivers have been wearing HANS devices, and both said they didn't even have a sore neck the next day. In my opinion, it would seem silly to spend £k's on the car and forget to spend the additional £500 on driver safety.
Are you over at the Ring this weekend?
chrs
Which series are you in and what car?
I'm heading out on Monday I think for the RMA day on Tuesday, but mostly to collect the car. Wallet is feeling very sore so not sure I can justify 500 quid to actually drive on the day, and the idea of driving a race car hope in the dark at night isn't that appealing!
Edited by DanH on Tuesday 24th June 20:33
DanH said:
Looking at Toyo Tyres Racing Series to start. Nice gentle club racing where hopefully I won't be at the back forever! Point taken about the HANS. Made sure my seats+harnesses are compatible and will buy one. Only killer is the helmet isn't and its hard to find who is allowed to modify it with the clips (with FIA sticker). There is only one place that can do an Arai in the UK and mines a Sparco and can't find who can do those. Rang GPR and they just tried to pedal me a new lid!
Which series are you in and what car?
I'm heading out on Monday I think for the RMA day on Tuesday, but mostly to collect the car. Wallet is feeling very sore so not sure I can justify 500 quid to actually drive on the day, and the idea of driving a race car hope in the dark at night isn't that appealing!
DanWhich series are you in and what car?
I'm heading out on Monday I think for the RMA day on Tuesday, but mostly to collect the car. Wallet is feeling very sore so not sure I can justify 500 quid to actually drive on the day, and the idea of driving a race car hope in the dark at night isn't that appealing!
in the LMA Euro Saloons series, racing a Clio Cup (#12) against ex touring and super-touring cars! The series has turned into a bit of a run what ya brung, so even with my class, the clios (about 6 of us, get hosed!). We therefore have a mini championship. I would have been doing OK in that, had I not spun on coolant at Oulton and been able to race at Brands.... Hey ho, there's always next year!
Who are you picking up the car (E36, or '6 RS?) from, Olaf, Uwe or one of the other usual suspects? I'm over at Spa on the monday with Goldtrack..... chrs
fergus said:
DanH said:
Looking at Toyo Tyres Racing Series to start. Nice gentle club racing where hopefully I won't be at the back forever! Point taken about the HANS. Made sure my seats+harnesses are compatible and will buy one. Only killer is the helmet isn't and its hard to find who is allowed to modify it with the clips (with FIA sticker). There is only one place that can do an Arai in the UK and mines a Sparco and can't find who can do those. Rang GPR and they just tried to pedal me a new lid!
Which series are you in and what car?
I'm heading out on Monday I think for the RMA day on Tuesday, but mostly to collect the car. Wallet is feeling very sore so not sure I can justify 500 quid to actually drive on the day, and the idea of driving a race car hope in the dark at night isn't that appealing!
DanWhich series are you in and what car?
I'm heading out on Monday I think for the RMA day on Tuesday, but mostly to collect the car. Wallet is feeling very sore so not sure I can justify 500 quid to actually drive on the day, and the idea of driving a race car hope in the dark at night isn't that appealing!
in the LMA Euro Saloons series, racing a Clio Cup (#12) against ex touring and super-touring cars! The series has turned into a bit of a run what ya brung, so even with my class, the clios (about 6 of us, get hosed!). We therefore have a mini championship. I would have been doing OK in that, had I not spun on coolant at Oulton and been able to race at Brands.... Hey ho, there's always next year!
Who are you picking up the car (E36, or '6 RS?) from, Olaf, Uwe or one of the other usual suspects? I'm over at Spa on the monday with Goldtrack..... chrs
I got into trackdays when i had my e30 M3, weighing up how uch it cost to use it o ntrackdays i thought ohh i could go racing for less money. Only the other weeek when iwas having probs with the race car i thought to my self the £ per mile/hour ratio is terribl;e for racing 200 quid entry fee for 30 mins 15 min qual and a 15 min race, not much more takes you to most circuits witha decent organiser for a full day ...more wear on the car though equals more expense and maintenance. plus you cant ebat the adrenaline rush of going 3 or 4 a breast through paddock hill
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