3R to M400 engine spec?

[jamie g]

I'm currently looking to buy a 3R or M400. The 3R I'm looking at has a stage 4 tune so at 420bhp should be similar to a m400 in performace. Does the M400 have any internal engine differences compared to a 3R? Just thought reliability might be an issue on a tuned 3R.

[alex s]

jamie g said:

I'm currently looking to buy a 3R or M400. The 3R I'm looking at has a stage 4 tune so at 420bhp should be similar to a m400 in performace. Does the M400 have any internal engine differences compared to a 3R? Just thought reliability might be an issue on a tuned 3R.

Firstly, M400's dont usually make quoted power, a 3R will also have more torque lower down as well ( assuming it has been mapped well) due to quicker spool up of the smaller turbos.
M400 has forged pistons, oil squirtes, h-rods.
A lot depends on how it has been driven, also which RR says 420bhp as they seem to vary quite a bit.
My coming up to 6 year old 3 litre is approx 395 bhp and is still going strong ( fingers crossed). So I guess what i am saying is that upgraded 3R engines can be fine if looked after, but a badly looked after M400 can go bang.
Not much help there I am afraid.
I also know of a 475bhp noble on standard internals (Mr. Jones) and his has a hard life sprinting etc and seems fine.
I guess it comes down to budget, and is the M400 worth the extra to you.

HTH

[jamie g]

The conversion included the bigger turbo's from the m400 so lag will be similar I suppose. There is around £5k difference between the 2 cars.
I know what you're saying about quoted power figures though, rolling roads are not good enviroments for turbo cars.

[daddysumo]

[/quote]M400 has forged pistons, oil squirtes, h-rods.
A lot depends on how it has been driven, also which RR says 420bhp as they seem to vary quite a bit.

HTH
[/quote]

The 3R has the oil squirters and the H beam rods also.
Rolling road figures as we all know can be 'optomistic' at times !
The standard pistons in the 3R are ok for the under 1 bar of boost this upgrade uses,my car is proof of this !

HTH

Steve

[joust]

alex s said:

Firstly, M400's dont usually make quoted power.

There is no reason a well looked after M400 engine shouldn't be within 2-4% of the quoted. I am not the only M400 owner who has a 'bang on' engine.

J

[NobleGuy]

jamie g said:

I'm currently looking to buy a 3R or M400. The 3R I'm looking at has a stage 4 tune so at 420bhp should be similar to a m400 in performace. Does the M400 have any internal engine differences compared to a 3R? Just thought reliability might be an issue on a tuned 3R.

My 5 year old GTO-3 is still in good nick with very little leakage - rolling road put it 356bhp, 6 off book figures (could be and optimistic RR, I don't know). I'm now running 410bhp with only a Stage 3 upgrade - when I asked about warranty for the tuning, the chap just said "Seriously, it won't break". The way he said it was good enough for me.

The 3R at 420bhp also probably has more bhp/tonne than a standard M400 given the slight weight difference . I would save the 5K personally.

[NickyTwoHats]

WHy not find someone with a GTO3 with 396 / 426 Bhp and ask them to give you a px ride then do the same with a 400 owner?

That reminds me I must take up Adrian's offer of a px in a 600hp one. When's good matey?

[NobleGuy]

Good idea.

[sjc]

Jamie, if the car in question is at Kerridges then I'm sure the owner was on here. Might be worth doing a search with Noble Motorsport or similar in it and see what comes up?

[jamie g]

The thing i noticed about the 3R compared to the M400 was the m400 would rev easily past 6000 where the 3r seemed a bit flat towards the top end.
What should they rev to before needing another gear usually.(not talking about the rev limit but usuable power)

[NobleGuy]

jamie g said:

The thing i noticed about the 3R compared to the M400 was the m400 would rev easily past 6000 where the 3r seemed a bit flat towards the top end.
What should they rev to before needing another gear usually.(not talking about the rev limit but usuable power)

Hmmmm, after the upgrade mine gives up just before 7K. Before the upgrade it was just after 6K.

[JLSELAN]

NobleGuy said:

jamie g said:

The thing i noticed about the 3R compared to the M400 was the m400 would rev easily past 6000 where the 3r seemed a bit flat towards the top end.
What should they rev to before needing another gear usually.(not talking about the rev limit but usuable power)

Hmmmm, after the upgrade mine gives up just before 7K. Before the upgrade it was just after 6K.

FWIW, a 3R with a proper dual exhaust and tune will pull without effort, or power loss, to redline (7200 rpm).

[Jenx]

That Y-piece has got to go...

[sean j g]

hi jamie if it is the 04 grey one in kerridges it is my old car and i had the upgrade done if there is anything you want to know give me a shout cheers sean

[Mike Tuckwood]

Slightly off topic here, but does anyone have an OEM piston from a 3R they could borrow me to have a look at, or indeed any similar intrnal parts.

If they need posting, I'll pay for it. Trying to do some research and this would help?


Mike.