which wax next?
Discussion
Evening all,
Question to those who may have tried these out and can give an honest un-biased opinion please!!!
I'm about to buy some wax and in tempted to try something different from the usual (the stuff that starts with a Z)
Swissvax - Best of Show
ZThe stuff that starts with a Z - Concours
Dodo Juice - Supernatural
Mike (Extreme Detail) you and I have discussed last week, anyone else want to chip in with their 2p worth please?
Cheers
Al
Question to those who may have tried these out and can give an honest un-biased opinion please!!!
I'm about to buy some wax and in tempted to try something different from the usual (the stuff that starts with a Z)
Swissvax - Best of Show
ZThe stuff that starts with a Z - Concours
Dodo Juice - Supernatural
Mike (Extreme Detail) you and I have discussed last week, anyone else want to chip in with their 2p worth please?
Cheers
Al
domster said:
I couldn't possibly comment but Tim Bomford on here has direct experience of at least two of those waxes; to be honest, [b]there won't be much separating high end waxes like these.[b]
Yup. I've got some Zymol Concours at home (got it for £50 from a shop closing sale), alongside some Souveran and some lowly Collinite. I really can't tell the difference. There is a slight difference in application, but as far as the finished product is concerned - I just don't get it.But then I've never understood the whole "expensive wax so must be good" mentality.
FWIW, I use the Collinite 476S for my winter wax. I've yet to find a better, more durable wax for the moneey.
i have all sorts of waxes. the main ones i use are z***l creme, z***l concours and poorboys nattys blue. tbh i find the nattys gives just as good protection and wetness as the z***l stuff that i have.
it all comes down to prep rather than the wax itself so much imo.
here's the bonnet of an impreza that i detailed at the weekend. this was corrected and then treated to a layer of poorboys black hole and topped with poorboys nattys:
this is the same wr blue on another impreza that was treated to poorboys black hole after correction and then finished with z***l creme:
not huge amounts in it imo. side views. top with natty's blue, bottom with z***l creme:
it all comes down to prep rather than the wax itself so much imo.
here's the bonnet of an impreza that i detailed at the weekend. this was corrected and then treated to a layer of poorboys black hole and topped with poorboys nattys:
this is the same wr blue on another impreza that was treated to poorboys black hole after correction and then finished with z***l creme:
not huge amounts in it imo. side views. top with natty's blue, bottom with z***l creme:
Edited by mneame on Tuesday 24th June 15:32
I have all 3!
OK Swissvax BOS is a great wax no doubt about it. £120 odd from memory. Excellent durability and with a decent wash regime etc should see 4-6 months before needing a top up
Z Concours is a pretty good wax but IMHO not worth the money at £164. If you can get it from America then it is worth the money! 2-4 months before topping up.
Dodo Supernatural at £95 in the wooden pot is great value to me. I KNOW I have the others but I buy too many waxes tbh. This wax needs longer to cure than the others in the Dodo range but the finish it gives is excellent and definately up there with BOS and Concours, possibly better and there are comparisons being made in the "trade" that is has the looks and depth of the mighty vintage wax....
The only question for you is durability. The Dodo Supernatural has not been on the market long enough for me to tell you it will last "X-months with a decent wash regime" as sadly there are no cars out there with the wax on there YET for this length of time.
Personally I feel it will be ok and for looks its certainly great.
Hope this helps.
Best wishes
Tim
OK Swissvax BOS is a great wax no doubt about it. £120 odd from memory. Excellent durability and with a decent wash regime etc should see 4-6 months before needing a top up
Z Concours is a pretty good wax but IMHO not worth the money at £164. If you can get it from America then it is worth the money! 2-4 months before topping up.
Dodo Supernatural at £95 in the wooden pot is great value to me. I KNOW I have the others but I buy too many waxes tbh. This wax needs longer to cure than the others in the Dodo range but the finish it gives is excellent and definately up there with BOS and Concours, possibly better and there are comparisons being made in the "trade" that is has the looks and depth of the mighty vintage wax....
The only question for you is durability. The Dodo Supernatural has not been on the market long enough for me to tell you it will last "X-months with a decent wash regime" as sadly there are no cars out there with the wax on there YET for this length of time.
Personally I feel it will be ok and for looks its certainly great.
Hope this helps.
Best wishes
Tim
I've had this one out over at detailingworld before, but I'm going to say it again:
If you were to line up 3 cars, use a different wax on each car and then ask people what wax was used for each car, I bet the vast majority of people wouldn't have a clue.
Just like wine tasters who get duped with the cheap plonk.
It's all in the prep.
If you were to line up 3 cars, use a different wax on each car and then ask people what wax was used for each car, I bet the vast majority of people wouldn't have a clue.
Just like wine tasters who get duped with the cheap plonk.
It's all in the prep.
Yes, and whilst there's plans afoot to test that assumption, there is still a vital point missed in this aspect - price is not the be all and end all for everyone.
If it were, then desirability would remain the preserve for attracting partners rather than commodities.
Cachet appeal, price/brand snobbery, and good old fashion ostentiousness are but some very valid reasons for spending more than £15-20 on a wax/sealant.
Yes, I would happily put Auto Balm up against Royale (£15 vs £7K odd), but that misses the point for those who can afford to shop at the high end of the market.
If it were, then desirability would remain the preserve for attracting partners rather than commodities.
Cachet appeal, price/brand snobbery, and good old fashion ostentiousness are but some very valid reasons for spending more than £15-20 on a wax/sealant.
Yes, I would happily put Auto Balm up against Royale (£15 vs £7K odd), but that misses the point for those who can afford to shop at the high end of the market.
PJ S said:
Yes, and whilst there's plans afoot to test that assumption, there is still a vital point missed in this aspect - price is not the be all and end all for everyone.
If it were, then desirability would remain the preserve for attracting partners rather than commodities.
Cachet appeal, price/brand snobbery, and good old fashion ostentiousness are but some very valid reasons for spending more than £15-20 on a wax/sealant.
Yes, I would happily put Auto Balm up against Royale (£15 vs £7K odd), but that misses the point for those who can afford to shop at the high end of the market.
So you're saying those with money should buy really expensive wax, just because it's er, more expensive?If it were, then desirability would remain the preserve for attracting partners rather than commodities.
Cachet appeal, price/brand snobbery, and good old fashion ostentiousness are but some very valid reasons for spending more than £15-20 on a wax/sealant.
Yes, I would happily put Auto Balm up against Royale (£15 vs £7K odd), but that misses the point for those who can afford to shop at the high end of the market.
Personally I think it's because a lot people are easily duped. Marketing hype has a lot to answer for.
Not should, just that it's understandable why some would buy something more expensive over another product which does exactly the same job for what would be deemed real world money.
At the end of the day, if someone can comfortably afford to throw £500+ at a wax for personal use only (as a charged optional upgrade by a detailer, that's a different story), then more power to them.
If they are then explained it's not much better, if any at all, than one costing £15-30 but they still choose to opt for it in light of that, then that's their prerogative.
At the end of the day, a chosen LSP does not always come down to performance only - the higher end ones have cachet appeal, and bragging rights associated with them, just like expensive cars do too!
At the end of the day, if someone can comfortably afford to throw £500+ at a wax for personal use only (as a charged optional upgrade by a detailer, that's a different story), then more power to them.
If they are then explained it's not much better, if any at all, than one costing £15-30 but they still choose to opt for it in light of that, then that's their prerogative.
At the end of the day, a chosen LSP does not always come down to performance only - the higher end ones have cachet appeal, and bragging rights associated with them, just like expensive cars do too!
Some great points of view, thanks all.
In reply to my opinion, Most recently I used Concours, which I found to be really good to work with etc and gave a great finish. I Just struggle to see how a wax at around £7k is going to be that much better?! To be honest I have used the Z stuff before thats designed for italian cars, not that impressed tbh, I would say the concours performed better.
The Supernatural sample pot arrived saturday, used it today and the results are very very good:-
Best of show, I guess is going to give a good finish too!
As someone already pointed out the prep is the key here, also allows us to make an equal comparison on products. I Have prepaired my "Test" bonnet now and treated with several waxes, its out there now, in the rain. Will give it a few weeks and give an update, with pics.
The frustration as a detailer is people wanting you to use the more expensive products. Whilst you can try and explain that the price is not really the only indication on performance, you still have to understand that the client might want you to use only certain products on their pride and joy.
This happens with many of the products used in standard valeting and prep work too. If you hop over to detailing world no one will ever admit to using autosmart products, if they do then its shortened to AS! Why? badge snobbery!
I Use a lot of autosmart products, many of which punch way about their weight with regards to performance but mostly on price. For example, the cutting compounds they stock are roughly £9 or £10 for a litre. Every bit as good on a performance comparison, even different grades to give you the full choice. They do a general cleaning solution called G101, ask anyone that uses this regular, they will admit its the best bottle they carry. Price? £10 a gallon. Dilution rate? 1 part G101 to 30 parts water................you do the sums!!!!
The local rep I have is a fantastic guy too, always has time to give you advice, samples of new products, things to take away and try, advice on mixing chemicals and what they all do, just great!
Similar story when polish is being discussed. Farecla ( The G3 and G10 guys ) do an amazing marine grade machine polish - Price? £12 a litre and lasts forever, works fantastic!
The above is just my opinion, but the whole "having to use stupid expensive products cause of the name" is getting a bit out of hand. Don't be hoodwinked guys when getting quoted for detailing etc, the truth is out there and its not £85 for 500ml!
(Right, someone please back me up now!)
Oh by the way, still not decided on which wax to get!!
Al
In reply to my opinion, Most recently I used Concours, which I found to be really good to work with etc and gave a great finish. I Just struggle to see how a wax at around £7k is going to be that much better?! To be honest I have used the Z stuff before thats designed for italian cars, not that impressed tbh, I would say the concours performed better.
The Supernatural sample pot arrived saturday, used it today and the results are very very good:-
Best of show, I guess is going to give a good finish too!
As someone already pointed out the prep is the key here, also allows us to make an equal comparison on products. I Have prepaired my "Test" bonnet now and treated with several waxes, its out there now, in the rain. Will give it a few weeks and give an update, with pics.
The frustration as a detailer is people wanting you to use the more expensive products. Whilst you can try and explain that the price is not really the only indication on performance, you still have to understand that the client might want you to use only certain products on their pride and joy.
This happens with many of the products used in standard valeting and prep work too. If you hop over to detailing world no one will ever admit to using autosmart products, if they do then its shortened to AS! Why? badge snobbery!
I Use a lot of autosmart products, many of which punch way about their weight with regards to performance but mostly on price. For example, the cutting compounds they stock are roughly £9 or £10 for a litre. Every bit as good on a performance comparison, even different grades to give you the full choice. They do a general cleaning solution called G101, ask anyone that uses this regular, they will admit its the best bottle they carry. Price? £10 a gallon. Dilution rate? 1 part G101 to 30 parts water................you do the sums!!!!
The local rep I have is a fantastic guy too, always has time to give you advice, samples of new products, things to take away and try, advice on mixing chemicals and what they all do, just great!
Similar story when polish is being discussed. Farecla ( The G3 and G10 guys ) do an amazing marine grade machine polish - Price? £12 a litre and lasts forever, works fantastic!
The above is just my opinion, but the whole "having to use stupid expensive products cause of the name" is getting a bit out of hand. Don't be hoodwinked guys when getting quoted for detailing etc, the truth is out there and its not £85 for 500ml!
(Right, someone please back me up now!)
Oh by the way, still not decided on which wax to get!!
Al
360 detailing said:
As someone already pointed out the prep is the key here, also allows us to make an equal comparison on products. I Have prepaired my "Test" bonnet now and treated with several waxes, its out there now, in the rain. Will give it a few weeks and give an update, with pics.
It's a test bonnet this time, what sort of testing did you do before?http://www.360complete.net/#/waxing/4526929133
Do you find custommers that want a particular wax walk away if you dont carry that one without even considering alternatives? Say because they have seen it used on TV or read about in the press.
Edited by pauljc on Wednesday 2nd July 10:24
I will back you up 360!
Got answers to the last 2 replies!
1)Have used over 35 different makes of lsp's (waxes) and have found excellent results with products around the £10-£30 mark, i have also used many of the Z brand waxes and found not as good as much cheaper products or worth the price they are sold for!
2)It is also all in the preparation and will make a big difference to how the wax behaves and looks!
I have carried out my own bonnet test panel a few years ago , it was in 8 sections then viewed in sun light , dull light , fluorescent light and sodium light by many people and to be honest could hardly see the difference!
i know only choose waxes depending on durability and how the customer is going to maitain the car them selfs!
3) For duability i have used the Zan!! synthetic type wax(when activated) that loves to be layered , putting on around 8-10 coats but is timely and very fussy how its applied and may not be the average person to apply!
This picture below is after wet sand then using the wax above!
For the ulimate finish i would top this with 2 coats of natural wax all being left to cure over 3-4 days
4) I have had a couple customers cancell because i said i would not use the expensive Z wax that is overly hyped even thou i have half pots still in stock and looks like will not use up!
the owner of a very large alloy wheel refurb company said use the wax you would normally use then tell the customer its Z!!!! concours etc!
Hope this helps kelly
Got answers to the last 2 replies!
1)Have used over 35 different makes of lsp's (waxes) and have found excellent results with products around the £10-£30 mark, i have also used many of the Z brand waxes and found not as good as much cheaper products or worth the price they are sold for!
2)It is also all in the preparation and will make a big difference to how the wax behaves and looks!
I have carried out my own bonnet test panel a few years ago , it was in 8 sections then viewed in sun light , dull light , fluorescent light and sodium light by many people and to be honest could hardly see the difference!
i know only choose waxes depending on durability and how the customer is going to maitain the car them selfs!
3) For duability i have used the Zan!! synthetic type wax(when activated) that loves to be layered , putting on around 8-10 coats but is timely and very fussy how its applied and may not be the average person to apply!
This picture below is after wet sand then using the wax above!
For the ulimate finish i would top this with 2 coats of natural wax all being left to cure over 3-4 days
4) I have had a couple customers cancell because i said i would not use the expensive Z wax that is overly hyped even thou i have half pots still in stock and looks like will not use up!
the owner of a very large alloy wheel refurb company said use the wax you would normally use then tell the customer its Z!!!! concours etc!
Hope this helps kelly
pauljc said:
360 detailing said:
As someone already pointed out the prep is the key here, also allows us to make an equal comparison on products. I Have prepaired my "Test" bonnet now and treated with several waxes, its out there now, in the rain. Will give it a few weeks and give an update, with pics.
It's a test bonnet this time, what sort of testing did you do before?http://www.360complete.net/#/waxing/4526929133
Do you find custommers that want a particular wax walk away if you dont carry that one without even considering alternatives? Say because they have seen it used on TV or read about in the press.
Edited by pauljc on Wednesday 2nd July 10:24
There are customers out there who will only ask for particular products as they have seen it on the TV etc, its expensive so it must be the best, All you can do is try and explain that the other products you carry give similar or better performance.
I Have many examples of work, along with a porfolio that I carry with me in the van, which allows people to see more examples. Its also reflected in the price - After explaining the performance and showing the examples, I go through my quote with the client, which gives them the choice of which wax they would like applied. They have the final choice which they can decide if they want to pay the premium of an expensive wax then i'm fine with that, at least I have given all the information and allow them to make their own choice.
Al
have used Zymol most of my Maseratis life (4 years) quite a good finish but the longevity is not good imo even a royale finish I had proffesionaly applied.
Tried swissvax 4 months ago, I have now had 30 washes 2 euro trips & covered 4k miles & its still on there
I'm a total convert & will never go back to Zymol, there is no comparison IMO
Tried swissvax 4 months ago, I have now had 30 washes 2 euro trips & covered 4k miles & its still on there
I'm a total convert & will never go back to Zymol, there is no comparison IMO
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