New R500 Duratec Engine Questions
Discussion
Guys,
I have a new R500 on order, due for delivery in September this year.
There is lots of general press information on the web, but no real detailed info as yet it seems, therefore I have been wondering about some areas of interest and hope some of you guys might know more!
These are some of the items I have thought about.
1 Why is the new R500 Duratec a tuned 2.0L duratec, tuned by Caterham Power, and not a 2.3 as fitted to the CSR and built by Cosworth?
2 I assume that the 2.0 Caterham Power engine is completely different from the Cosworth built 2.3 engine?
3 Therefore if my assumption in Q2 above is correct, what dry sump system is fitted to Caterham Power 2.0 unit?
4 From the pictures floating about, such as the yellow and black car featured on drivers-republic.com, many features of the engine look very different, IE the water piping routing etc, to other caterhams fitted with a duratec engine, albeit those are CSR models, any ideas as to why?
Thanks in advance.
Nigel
I have a new R500 on order, due for delivery in September this year.
There is lots of general press information on the web, but no real detailed info as yet it seems, therefore I have been wondering about some areas of interest and hope some of you guys might know more!
These are some of the items I have thought about.
1 Why is the new R500 Duratec a tuned 2.0L duratec, tuned by Caterham Power, and not a 2.3 as fitted to the CSR and built by Cosworth?
2 I assume that the 2.0 Caterham Power engine is completely different from the Cosworth built 2.3 engine?
3 Therefore if my assumption in Q2 above is correct, what dry sump system is fitted to Caterham Power 2.0 unit?
4 From the pictures floating about, such as the yellow and black car featured on drivers-republic.com, many features of the engine look very different, IE the water piping routing etc, to other caterhams fitted with a duratec engine, albeit those are CSR models, any ideas as to why?
Thanks in advance.
Nigel
nigelpugh7 said:
Guys,
I have a new R500 on order, due for delivery in September this year.
There is lots of general press information on the web, but no real detailed info as yet it seems, therefore I have been wondering about some areas of interest and hope some of you guys might know more!
These are some of the items I have thought about.
1 Why is the new R500 Duratec a tuned 2.0L duratec, tuned by Caterham Power, and not a 2.3 as fitted to the CSR and built by Cosworth?
2 I assume that the 2.0 Caterham Power engine is completely different from the Cosworth built 2.3 engine?
3 Therefore if my assumption in Q2 above is correct, what dry sump system is fitted to Caterham Power 2.0 unit?
4 From the pictures floating about, such as the yellow and black car featured on drivers-republic.com, many features of the engine look very different, IE the water piping routing etc, to other caterhams fitted with a duratec engine, albeit those are CSR models, any ideas as to why?
Thanks in advance.
Nigel
I think it is only us two on this forum!I have a new R500 on order, due for delivery in September this year.
There is lots of general press information on the web, but no real detailed info as yet it seems, therefore I have been wondering about some areas of interest and hope some of you guys might know more!
These are some of the items I have thought about.
1 Why is the new R500 Duratec a tuned 2.0L duratec, tuned by Caterham Power, and not a 2.3 as fitted to the CSR and built by Cosworth?
2 I assume that the 2.0 Caterham Power engine is completely different from the Cosworth built 2.3 engine?
3 Therefore if my assumption in Q2 above is correct, what dry sump system is fitted to Caterham Power 2.0 unit?
4 From the pictures floating about, such as the yellow and black car featured on drivers-republic.com, many features of the engine look very different, IE the water piping routing etc, to other caterhams fitted with a duratec engine, albeit those are CSR models, any ideas as to why?
Thanks in advance.
Nigel
I have been down pestering the guys at Caterham Sales quite a lot about the car, and have asked a few of these questions myself.
The 2.0 L is a "better" engine. They defined "better" as in the actual design and efficiency of the 2.0l is superior to the 2.3l, allowing it to rev harder and be tuned to "suit" the R500. I also understand the 2.3 to be a bit of a tight fit in the standard Caterham chassis (and a bit heavier to boot). This is (i would guess) in no way related to the 2.3 cosworth engine other than in name.
When i asked what the deal was with it not being a "cosworth" engine, they said it was to do with the Fact that the factory were heavily involved with the development along side Cosworth to the point where they didn't feel the need to speak to cosworth about the 2.0L R500 engine. I think the R400 engine was tuned in house too? Judging by the reviews so far, it seems that they were right!
Sorry, not technical to know what dry sump is fitted, but it is up at the front of the engine and the sales guy pointed out that the car has an integrated radiator and oil cooler. The installation of the looked excellent though - it has something to do with the "CSR" style cooling - hence the hole in the nose cone (again, i am not hugely technical so dont shoot me down if this makes no sense at all!)
Hope this helps - probably best to speak to Caterham Directly as they will be able to answer more concisely than me!
Cheers,
Mick
atom-ick said:
The 2.0 L is a "better" engine. They defined "better" as in the actual design and efficiency of the 2.0l is superior to the 2.3l, allowing it to rev harder and be tuned to "suit" the R500. I also understand the 2.3 to be a bit of a tight fit in the standard Caterham chassis (and a bit heavier to boot). This is (i would guess) in no way related to the 2.3 cosworth engine other than in name.
Hope this helps - probably best to speak to Caterham Directly as they will be able to answer more concisely than me!
If you want to know anything about duratec engines, speak to Ammo @ RaceCo. I *believe* the difference is in the crank and rods more than anything else. The blocks can also come froma whole range of ford vehicles, with some having more strength than others. Weight wise, I think the 2.3 and 2l are almost identical, as are their dimensions.... I think the choice of a 2l was more down to the ower square configuration, allowing it to rev more, hence suiting the character of the car, rather than have a big torquey lump, only able to spin to high 6k...Hope this helps - probably best to speak to Caterham Directly as they will be able to answer more concisely than me!
I think ammo has got about 330hp out of a 2.4l duratec to date - seek out DannyLT on this forum and ask him.
Seriously, I don't think Caterham will know that much on the engine side of things....
Pretty much spot on with the engine. 2.3 is a taller block so weighs a bit more and has the obvious packaging issues. Its also a bit lower revving and more torquey so its better suited to the heavier, more road oriented CSR.
You can tune a 2.0 litre to the same sort of power outputs as the 2.3 without too much worry, and in the lighter track focused Superlight, the revvier nature would suit it more.
As for not being Cosworth, I'd say that now the Duratec is better established as a tuned engine, most of the parts on it probably come straight off the shelf from Cosworth and Caterham are just putting it together!
You can tune a 2.0 litre to the same sort of power outputs as the 2.3 without too much worry, and in the lighter track focused Superlight, the revvier nature would suit it more.
As for not being Cosworth, I'd say that now the Duratec is better established as a tuned engine, most of the parts on it probably come straight off the shelf from Cosworth and Caterham are just putting it together!
Hi guys,
I have a 2.3 engine (albeit a Minister lump) in an s3 Arch chassis and certainly, it is about as tall a lump as you would want in a 7. My car weighs in at about 550kg, but I am a softy with a screen, heater, leather seats etc, so not sure about the weight issue v a 2.0.
My engine revs to 7,500 rpm, and it is as torquey as hell. It pulls like billyo out of corners and makes do with a 5 speed box.
I guess it's not as manic as a 2.0l would be, and that's probably why they went for the 2.0. Engine character. Having said that, mine makes me smile from ear to ear!
I really want a test drive in an R500... they sound fantastic!
I have a 2.3 engine (albeit a Minister lump) in an s3 Arch chassis and certainly, it is about as tall a lump as you would want in a 7. My car weighs in at about 550kg, but I am a softy with a screen, heater, leather seats etc, so not sure about the weight issue v a 2.0.
My engine revs to 7,500 rpm, and it is as torquey as hell. It pulls like billyo out of corners and makes do with a 5 speed box.
I guess it's not as manic as a 2.0l would be, and that's probably why they went for the 2.0. Engine character. Having said that, mine makes me smile from ear to ear!
I really want a test drive in an R500... they sound fantastic!
mic said:
Can't think of any Cosworth parts that are fitted to the R500 engine.
Oh yeah, whats the spec? I assumed it'd be similar to my C400 which has Cosworth everything! Cosworth Roller Barrel throttle, cams, pistons, rods.. etc etc etcEdited by mic on Friday 27th June 22:27
Didn't realise Caterham were kitted to design their own internals!
OJ said:
Didn't realise Caterham were kitted to design their own internals!
I think you'll find the new R5 motor was designed, and is certainly built, by one of Caterham's suppliers.So, even though it's a 'Caterham' engine, they didn't make it. Just as when you buy a Caterham wishbone, Caterham don't make it. Infact, they don't make anything afaik.
I assumed that Minister just built all of their really hot stuff with the Cosworth parts catalogue!
I knew people like Arch make all of the wishbones and bits and bobs, but Caterham still do the designing... well Chapman (or Jez Coates for the newer stuff) did anyway. Strange that they'd commission it themselves if an engine builder has done it for them, usually the builders like to take the credit... I'd be interested to know who it is
I knew people like Arch make all of the wishbones and bits and bobs, but Caterham still do the designing... well Chapman (or Jez Coates for the newer stuff) did anyway. Strange that they'd commission it themselves if an engine builder has done it for them, usually the builders like to take the credit... I'd be interested to know who it is
OJ said:
I assumed that Minister just built all of their really hot stuff with the Cosworth parts catalogue!
I knew people like Arch make all of the wishbones and bits and bobs, but Caterham still do the designing... well Chapman (or Jez Coates for the newer stuff) did anyway. Strange that they'd commission it themselves if an engine builder has done it for them, usually the builders like to take the credit... I'd be interested to know who it is
You'd have to ask Mic why he knows so much about all of this OJ...I knew people like Arch make all of the wishbones and bits and bobs, but Caterham still do the designing... well Chapman (or Jez Coates for the newer stuff) did anyway. Strange that they'd commission it themselves if an engine builder has done it for them, usually the builders like to take the credit... I'd be interested to know who it is
As I'm sure you know, Jez isn't there any more.
OJ said:
Yeah, I know he's gone, it was just a subtle dig that the last major bit of work they did was the CSR chassis while he was still there!.. As far as I'm aware anyway. I'd imagine the metric chassis was more of a re-jig (no pun intended!)
Depends what you meant by major work....X330 for instance....Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff