Leven ARB droplinks - any experience
Discussion
The AJP Griff said:
I need some as well.When talking to the sellers,there appears to be two schools of thought as to whether the rear drop links should be rose jointed at each end on our cars,at the rear.Everybody seems to think that rose joints are good at both ends on the front links,though.
If you don't rose joint the top and simply use a bush and rod, the compliance is still there and the ARB spends its time moving the bush rather than applying correctional force to the wishbone. The bush and rod design as used on the originals has no articulation and relies on the bush deforming for any movement. This then leads to the wishbone bracket failing as the rod tries to pivot and works against the bracket. Using a rod and bush as per the original does simplify the design and reduce the cost but it doesn't solve the fundamental flaw of the bush deforming instead of the the ARB applying the correction force. 
shpub said:
The AJP Griff said:
I need some as well.When talking to the sellers,there appears to be two schools of thought as to whether the rear drop links should be rose jointed at each end on our cars,at the rear.Everybody seems to think that rose joints are good at both ends on the front links,though.
If you don't rose joint the top and simply use a bush and rod, the compliance is still there and the ARB spends its time moving the bush rather than applying correctional force to the wishbone. The bush and rod design as used on the originals has no articulation and relies on the bush deforming for any movement. This then leads to the wishbone bracket failing as the rod tries to pivot and works against the bracket. Using a rod and bush as per the original does simplify the design and reduce the cost but it doesn't solve the fundamental flaw of the bush deforming instead of the the ARB applying the correction force. 
.If you have the non compliant rose joints on the rear though,are there any issues with the 'shock loads' to the arb mounting bracket on the wishbone?(a known weak point if i recall).The previous comments are interesting and like many subjects there is more than one solution and opinion. We decided to select the rose joint at one end and rubber bushes the other based on our experience of road and race cars. Under most conditions and for maximum performance, fully rose jointing is the ideal solution for suspension. However applying it retrospectivly and to a road car we did not think it was the way to go. We have been supplying and fitting our drop links for some time now and being a workshop have an advantage of being able to see how they are performing over a period of time with different customer and driving styles. We are very happy with the results and see no need to make any changes. In fact the only change we have made is to fit rubber boots to prevent dirt ingress. It is interesting to note that when TVR went to rose joints for the Cerbera and Tuscan rears even with more power and better handling they opted for a rose joint at one end only and a rubber bushes the other.
The AJP Griff said:
Thats exactly what i was thinking,having been taught the same principle by your good self for the fronts.If you have the non compliant rose joints on the rear though,are there any issues with the 'shock loads' to the arb mounting bracket on the wishbone?(a known weak point if i recall).
The weak point was caused by the original droplink design more than anything. What happens is this: the car starts to roll and as it rolls the ARB should start to twist except that it doesn't because the bushes have to deform. The car continues to roll and then suddenly the bushes lock out - what typically happens is that the droplink rod locks out against the bracket. The car continues to roll which causes the angle to increase yet the rod is locked out. At this point the rod tries to twist the bracket to get more articulation, the ARB starts to apply large amounts of force and the car will stop rolling. As the roll reduces the ARB twist reduces and the rod moves back. Instead of a progressive application of the correcting force, it is applied in big steps and is made worse because of the twisting action. .If you have the non compliant rose joints on the rear though,are there any issues with the 'shock loads' to the arb mounting bracket on the wishbone?(a known weak point if i recall).With a second rose joint, the top is articulated so that there is no twisting/bending on the bracket. The ARB starts to apply its correctional force as soon as the car starts to roll. As the force applied is proportional to the ARB deflection, the amount of force experienced by the bracket is smaller as the car doesn't roll so much and is progressive... it is not applied in big steps. As a result, the setup is kinder to the bracket. A good analogy would be steering a trolley: you can give it a sudden jolt from the side to get it to turn or you can apply a small side force progressively and get the trolley to turn gradually.
The resulting change in the handling is very marked indeed: the fully jointed solution will have less roll and is less twitchy especially when going over bumps and applying power.
LevenTech said:
The previous comments are interesting and like many subjects there is more than one solution and opinion. We decided to select the rose joint at one end and rubber bushes the other based on our experience of road and race cars. Under most conditions and for maximum performance, fully rose jointing is the ideal solution for suspension. However applying it retrospectivly and to a road car we did not think it was the way to go. We have been supplying and fitting our drop links for some time now and being a workshop have an advantage of being able to see how they are performing over a period of time with different customer and driving styles. We are very happy with the results and see no need to make any changes. In fact the only change we have made is to fit rubber boots to prevent dirt ingress. It is interesting to note that when TVR went to rose joints for the Cerbera and Tuscan rears even with more power and better handling they opted for a rose joint at one end only and a rubber bushes the other.
Thats an interesting reply,thanksI know it sounds good that TVR fitted as std,rear drop links in the same style as the Leven ones,but then they also fitted those pretty crappy rubber type on the front,which all seem to agree are better replaced with fully rose jointed.What do you consider the advantage of having a rubber bush at one end,over both ends being rose jointed,and why didn't you think fully rose jointed was the way to go?
caduceus said:
The AJP Griff said:
BOINNNNGGGG!!!!
Would really like an opinion on this,as i really dont understand this kind of stuff too well,and it would help me decide.
Bump.Would really like an opinion on this,as i really dont understand this kind of stuff too well,and it would help me decide.
I would like to hear Levens reply on this too, as I am trying to decide on either Leven or SH ones.
The AJP Griff said:
caduceus said:
The AJP Griff said:
BOINNNNGGGG!!!!
Would really like an opinion on this,as i really dont understand this kind of stuff too well,and it would help me decide.
Bump.Would really like an opinion on this,as i really dont understand this kind of stuff too well,and it would help me decide.
I would like to hear Levens reply on this too, as I am trying to decide on either Leven or SH ones.
h' to setup, its worth spending a lot of time checking they can fully articulate. Even after this Offords showed me that my right rear needed a little adjustment at the last service. Whats really nice though is you can see them working as the suspension moves around, rather than just straining a piece of rubber.stu 9thgate said:
Iv just orderd the Steve Heath rear drop links ( waiting 4 delivery) , should i go right ahead and order the fronts too? What do you recomend Mr Heath ?
While the fronts are not essential, they are a big improvement over the originals with less roll and better turn in. Your drop links are scheduled to go out special delivery tomorrow so if you order the fronts by tomorrow lunchtime, they can go out together. Edited by stu 9thgate on Sunday 20th July 11:04
How long does it take to change the fronts? looks like a more difficult job than the rears. I would love to do both but i have had the car up on the ramps for over 2 weeks doing the chassis re-ferb. glad the weather has been crap 
, but i have some time of next week and feel the need to drive some 
! . expecting a turn in the weather soon so perhaps i will do the fronts in the winter.
, but i have some time of next week and feel the need to drive some ! . expecting a turn in the weather soon so perhaps i will do the fronts in the winter.stu 9thgate said:
How long does it take to change the fronts? looks like a more difficult job than the rears. I would love to do both but i have had the car up on the ramps for over 2 weeks doing the chassis re-ferb. glad the weather has been crap , but i have some time of next week and feel the need to drive some ! . expecting a turn in the weather soon so perhaps i will do the fronts in the winter.
There easy to change - its the setup thats tricky. But each car is different, my fronts went in with no problems but my rears were a pain as the ARB was directly over the mount in the wishbone whatever side of the ARB the link was put it would lean to one side. , but i have some time of next week and feel the need to drive some ! . expecting a turn in the weather soon so perhaps i will do the fronts in the winter.Perfect now though :-)
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