The best way to learn?
Discussion
Hi all,
I am very much a beginner in the world of photography, but I feel it's an interest I would like to 'develop'. My current camera - a Fujifilm S8000fd - is pretty decent and seems to give okay results, but restricts me in a lot of ways. There are things I would like to learn that the S8000fd can't handle (so I've been told), such as light-trails, so it seems that the camera will need changing. A conversation with a Jessops sales assistant yesterday suggested that a Canon EOS 450D would be a good beginners SLR, so I will probably go and pick one up this week.
My question is, what is the best way to learn the techniques of proper photography? I want to progress from a basic point-and-shoot photographer, but am unsure as to how to do it? None of my friends are into photography, and when asked this question the guy at Jessops seemed to look blankly at me as if I should already know everything there is to know. There are a couple of 'Digital Photography' courses at a local college, but I'm worried that they may be for people more advanced than me. I may just have to give them a call and see if they can be a bit more specific.
How did you all learn the basics in the first place? Can/should I really just sit down for a day with the new camera and the instruction manual and figure it all out?
Thanks for any replies and suggestions.
I am very much a beginner in the world of photography, but I feel it's an interest I would like to 'develop'. My current camera - a Fujifilm S8000fd - is pretty decent and seems to give okay results, but restricts me in a lot of ways. There are things I would like to learn that the S8000fd can't handle (so I've been told), such as light-trails, so it seems that the camera will need changing. A conversation with a Jessops sales assistant yesterday suggested that a Canon EOS 450D would be a good beginners SLR, so I will probably go and pick one up this week.
My question is, what is the best way to learn the techniques of proper photography? I want to progress from a basic point-and-shoot photographer, but am unsure as to how to do it? None of my friends are into photography, and when asked this question the guy at Jessops seemed to look blankly at me as if I should already know everything there is to know. There are a couple of 'Digital Photography' courses at a local college, but I'm worried that they may be for people more advanced than me. I may just have to give them a call and see if they can be a bit more specific.
How did you all learn the basics in the first place? Can/should I really just sit down for a day with the new camera and the instruction manual and figure it all out?
Thanks for any replies and suggestions.
Edited by ehyouwhat on Sunday 6th July 23:09
Thanks for the reply. Budget isn't a problem so I'm happy to buy whatever is recommended, although I'll be sensible with what I do buy. The Jessops sales assistant spent about twenty minutes recommending the 450D, but insisted that I would need to go for an 'Ultimate Pack' which had (amongst other things) a bag, 8gb SD card, tripod, battery grip thingy, and a 75-300mm lens (I think those were the specs anyway). This package came in at nearly a grand and, whilst I don't mind paying that, I don't want to buy things I don't need just for the sake of it.
As said, practice is essential. Reading, asking, looking at others' photos all helps but practice really embeds what you've learned - or highlights deficiencies in what you thought you'd learned.
Don't know the specifics of your camera but if you've got any control over settings, say, to extend your exposure time to a few seconds or more, you can use your shot for light trails.
Many local colleges offer a range of courses for beginners through to A-Level. Content varies from trying to familiarise you with camera functions; to photographic history; to taking pictures (composition, exposure etc); to darkroom techniques - be sure you know what you're getting.
Some tips with learning from flickr: join technique groups and engage in the discussions; look at the EXIF information (many photos have a "more properties" option to show you details of the image such as focal length, exposure time, aperture size etc); leave comments for others photos and ask questions - then check the "comments you've left" link for answers.
This forum is generally friendly and helpful too so stay involved here.
As for Jessops, some stores are more helpful than others but their prices are often at the higher end. Shop around online and maybe consider mixing and matching from various places to get your best prices on the things you need rather than what someone's trying to sell you.
Don't know the specifics of your camera but if you've got any control over settings, say, to extend your exposure time to a few seconds or more, you can use your shot for light trails.
Many local colleges offer a range of courses for beginners through to A-Level. Content varies from trying to familiarise you with camera functions; to photographic history; to taking pictures (composition, exposure etc); to darkroom techniques - be sure you know what you're getting.
Some tips with learning from flickr: join technique groups and engage in the discussions; look at the EXIF information (many photos have a "more properties" option to show you details of the image such as focal length, exposure time, aperture size etc); leave comments for others photos and ask questions - then check the "comments you've left" link for answers.
This forum is generally friendly and helpful too so stay involved here.
As for Jessops, some stores are more helpful than others but their prices are often at the higher end. Shop around online and maybe consider mixing and matching from various places to get your best prices on the things you need rather than what someone's trying to sell you.
There's people here who will always reccomend courses for this, but I've learned everything I know with books and practice. There's some great ones out there for every aspect of photography. After that, just get out and practice lots.
I think your mistake was going to Jessops for something. If you're set on a high street store give Jacobs a go, it's often cheaper and the people there (at least in Nottingham) know a whole lot more about photography.
I think your mistake was going to Jessops for something. If you're set on a high street store give Jacobs a go, it's often cheaper and the people there (at least in Nottingham) know a whole lot more about photography.
Forget the jumbo pack. The bag will inevitably be barely big enough for the body and the kit lens (here speaketh the voice of experience). Get your 8Gb card from www.7dayshop.com as Jessops are grossly overpriced on cards. Ditto batteries and battery grips.
Subscribe to PhotoPlus (Digital Photographer tweaked for Canon users) and get a free tripod which will be at least as good as whatever Jessops are giving away.
Finally, the lens. What exactly is it? The USM one or the normal one? The normal one is worth £150 at best.
Personally, I just can't see what the 450D gives you over and above the 400D. Yes, live view, and spot metering. I have both on my 40D and whilst the spot metering is valuable, I cannot understand what is so great about live view. Others disagree! My choice would be to go for the 400D plus a really nice Sigma or Canon lens - maybe a Sigma 70-200 f/2.8. Or, hold out for a 40D. I think you are either beginner, or serious. And IMHO the 450D is stuck in between the two.
Opinionated b
d ain't I? 
Subscribe to PhotoPlus (Digital Photographer tweaked for Canon users) and get a free tripod which will be at least as good as whatever Jessops are giving away.
Finally, the lens. What exactly is it? The USM one or the normal one? The normal one is worth £150 at best.
Personally, I just can't see what the 450D gives you over and above the 400D. Yes, live view, and spot metering. I have both on my 40D and whilst the spot metering is valuable, I cannot understand what is so great about live view. Others disagree! My choice would be to go for the 400D plus a really nice Sigma or Canon lens - maybe a Sigma 70-200 f/2.8. Or, hold out for a 40D. I think you are either beginner, or serious. And IMHO the 450D is stuck in between the two.
Opinionated b
d ain't I? As others have said, get out there and practice. I've read a lot of books to understand the technical side and to learn the relationship between aperture, shutter speed, focal lengths and depth of field etc, but none of that theory necessarily helps you put it all into practice.
If there is a particular technique/effect that you want to try, but haven't the first idea of how to go about it, the guys on here are very helpful and should be able to point you in the right direction.
If you have problems, posting your pics on here will also solicit helpful suggestions as to how you can make corrections to resolve the problem.
HTH
If there is a particular technique/effect that you want to try, but haven't the first idea of how to go about it, the guys on here are very helpful and should be able to point you in the right direction.
If you have problems, posting your pics on here will also solicit helpful suggestions as to how you can make corrections to resolve the problem.
HTH
ehyouwhat said:
There are things I would like to learn that the S8000fd can't handle (so I've been told), such as light-trails....
Who told you that? Wasn't Jessops was it? I thought you had full manual control with the S8000fd? It's quite a top end in the range of bridge cameras, isn't it? If you are just wanting to practice techniques, learn about apertures and exposure etc, personally I would save your money. Learn with what you have then make a decision later on to move up to a DSLR once you know what you are doing.I agree with CarMac. That looks a pretty high end bridge camera that you've got and would be fine for learning the basics. If you really want to move to an SLR, you certainly wouldn't go wrong with a 400D or 450D though.
I'd steer well clear of that "everything you need" pack. All camera gear is designed with certain compromises (size, weight, performance, cost etc). For each bit of kit there will be a particular make/version that best fits your needs. If you're not sure which accessories you need and what you want them to do, then you probably shouldn't buy them yet.
As for learning, go with whichever style suits you (books, course, asking on here...), but most importantly get out and take lots of photos and then work out why the good ones are good and the bad ones bad.
Have fun!
I'd steer well clear of that "everything you need" pack. All camera gear is designed with certain compromises (size, weight, performance, cost etc). For each bit of kit there will be a particular make/version that best fits your needs. If you're not sure which accessories you need and what you want them to do, then you probably shouldn't buy them yet.
As for learning, go with whichever style suits you (books, course, asking on here...), but most importantly get out and take lots of photos and then work out why the good ones are good and the bad ones bad.
Have fun!
get an slr. you'll be able to add to your kit over time as you're improving, and keep lenses and stuff as you upgrade camera bodies.
as for learning, i'd suggest city and guilds or similar. or have a look at michael langfords books. generally just take loads of pictures: failure is the best way to learn!
also, if you get stuck just whack a post up on here!
as for learning, i'd suggest city and guilds or similar. or have a look at michael langfords books. generally just take loads of pictures: failure is the best way to learn!
also, if you get stuck just whack a post up on here!
Assuming it's a Canon 75-300 lens and that they've not released an updated version since I bought mine a few years back, I'd personally not bother with it - it's fine for the money around 75-200mm, but over 200mm it becomes progressively more and more soft until the images are nigh-on unuseable as you approach the zoom stop.
As others have said though, practice makes perfect - if you're taking photos of your car for example, take dozens of photos from various angles and in various locations, and use pictures that you've seen from others as inspiration.
As others have said though, practice makes perfect - if you're taking photos of your car for example, take dozens of photos from various angles and in various locations, and use pictures that you've seen from others as inspiration.
I'm not sure that simply taking thousands of photographs will make you learn anything, unless as MartinP says you look at what went wrong and analyse them to see what you got wrong (or right). However that in itself takes a little knowledge... the tecchy stuff can be learned, as for composition and artistry, that's another matter. You also have the issue of image processing to contend with - which is another chunk to know about on top of the photogaphic side!
Personally I see it from the ground up - a camera is a box with a hole in it. Everything else straps onto that
Personally I see it from the ground up - a camera is a box with a hole in it. Everything else straps onto that
Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 7th July 09:51
I'd 2nd Sho's recommendation for City & Guilds if you want to do a course. I've just completed the level 2 photography course and thoroughly enjoyed it. There was a mix of complete SLR newbies and keen amateur photographers with a few years of experience on the course and we all learned lots. Here's a link to the portfolios that I submitted for coursework to give an idea of the type of things we did:
www.flickr.com/photos/muddy_defender/collections/7...
I've now signed up for level 3.
www.flickr.com/photos/muddy_defender/collections/7...
I've now signed up for level 3.
MartinP said:
I'd 2nd Sho's recommendation for City & Guilds if you want to do a course. I've just completed the level 2 photography course and thoroughly enjoyed it. There was a mix of complete SLR newbies and keen amateur photographers with a few years of experience on the course and we all learned lots. Here's a link to the portfolios that I submitted for coursework to give an idea of the type of things we did:
www.flickr.com/photos/muddy_defender/collections/7...
I've now signed up for level 3.
allways nice to learn in a group! can't beat a bit of competition to drive things forwardwww.flickr.com/photos/muddy_defender/collections/7...
I've now signed up for level 3.
Cheers for all the comments so far.
I think a course is something I absolutely need to do, as a lot of the basics of proper photography are still a mystery to me. I can read a manual all I like, but it's unlikely to help me work out what the various terms actually mean.
With regards to my current camera being limited, the chap at Jessops told me that I can't keep the shutter open long enough to shoot light trails. Could be complete bks and that's the point, I really don't know my arse from my elbow when it comes to photography, so I'm very much a beginner. I feel I have quite a good eye for framing a scene, but I need to know the techniques for making the most of this.
Does anyone know of any good books that might give me even a modest basic grasp of what various terms mean? I'm going to nip to the newsagent later and grab a couple of photography magazines, but again I feel the content may well go straight over my head.
I think a course is something I absolutely need to do, as a lot of the basics of proper photography are still a mystery to me. I can read a manual all I like, but it's unlikely to help me work out what the various terms actually mean.
With regards to my current camera being limited, the chap at Jessops told me that I can't keep the shutter open long enough to shoot light trails. Could be complete b
ks and that's the point, I really don't know my arse from my elbow when it comes to photography, so I'm very much a beginner. I feel I have quite a good eye for framing a scene, but I need to know the techniques for making the most of this.Does anyone know of any good books that might give me even a modest basic grasp of what various terms mean? I'm going to nip to the newsagent later and grab a couple of photography magazines, but again I feel the content may well go straight over my head.
ehyouwhat said:
Does anyone know of any good books that might give me even a modest basic grasp of what various terms mean? I'm going to nip to the newsagent later and grab a couple of photography magazines, but again I feel the content may well go straight over my head.
The Camera, The Negative & The Print, all by Ansel Adams. I found these very interesting, however they do go into very great depth.I'd say a course of some kind too. I'm doing a BTEC Level 3. Its 2 years, one evening a week. The fact that you have signed up makes you go and therefore you have to go out and take photos. This one is film and digital, so its quite varied
The learning process is a bit random, as you work on projects and the tutor does not teach, as in an 'old fashioned' class. He is always there to ask, guide and crititsize (?)You seem to learn without learning. Over time you get much more critical of your own work. You also learn off each other in class and make some good new friends
Also enter any competition going, you get to see others interprutations of the themes and again it forces you to go out and take photos
As for the camera, I have a lovely Nikon D300 but its for those days you wake up and intend to go out and take pictures. I also have a small Olympus Ultra Zoon 750. Its only 4mp ( it is 4 years old )but has manual settings. Its small enough to take anywhere, so I always have a camera at hand to take those spontaneous shots
Good luck with whatever you choose
The learning process is a bit random, as you work on projects and the tutor does not teach, as in an 'old fashioned' class. He is always there to ask, guide and crititsize (?)You seem to learn without learning. Over time you get much more critical of your own work. You also learn off each other in class and make some good new friends
Also enter any competition going, you get to see others interprutations of the themes and again it forces you to go out and take photos
As for the camera, I have a lovely Nikon D300 but its for those days you wake up and intend to go out and take pictures. I also have a small Olympus Ultra Zoon 750. Its only 4mp ( it is 4 years old )but has manual settings. Its small enough to take anywhere, so I always have a camera at hand to take those spontaneous shots
Good luck with whatever you choose
If you buy only one book buy Michael Langford's 'Basic Photography'.
I'd heartily endorse doing an evening class as you will get a structured approach to learning and it does indeed keep you focused and motivated. The standard of course can vary widely. It seems that some awarding bodies and some tutors struggle to encompass coverage of the fundamentals of the camera whilst teaching digital at the same time. I'd recommend gaining a solid foundation in learning camera controls and image formation coupled with various aspects of composition before progressing onto learning Photoshop.
If you can find a City and Guilds course I would recommend that very highly. A BTEC National Diploma would be excellent too. BTEC courses are designed to get you accustomed to independent learning and producing an individual response to a brief. It is a method of teaching that prepares you well for higher education.
I'd heartily endorse doing an evening class as you will get a structured approach to learning and it does indeed keep you focused and motivated. The standard of course can vary widely. It seems that some awarding bodies and some tutors struggle to encompass coverage of the fundamentals of the camera whilst teaching digital at the same time. I'd recommend gaining a solid foundation in learning camera controls and image formation coupled with various aspects of composition before progressing onto learning Photoshop.
If you can find a City and Guilds course I would recommend that very highly. A BTEC National Diploma would be excellent too. BTEC courses are designed to get you accustomed to independent learning and producing an individual response to a brief. It is a method of teaching that prepares you well for higher education.
Edited by EmmaP on Monday 7th July 20:49
ehyouwhat said:
With regards to my current camera being limited, the chap at Jessops told me that I can't keep the shutter open long enough to shoot light trails.
According to the bumph on t'interweb about your model of camera, the shutter speed varies from 30 seconds up to 1/4000 sec. That's adequate for a lot of different types of photography. If you're adamant you want a DSLR then go and play with a few in your price range. Some feel better than others. Personally, I would learn a little more about techniques first, either via courses or books or both, then spend the money on a DSLR once you have a better idea of what you are doing. The principals of photography are the same no matter what kit you use!
Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff