Future of Porsche
Discussion
sb-1 said:
Seems to me that without the Cayenne,Porsche would be deep in the poo according to the motoring press.Sales of 996/Boxsters are well down.
So those who are knocking the Pepper....what would you have done to keep Porsche afloat for the next decade or two?
Steve
I would have run the different sectors/price points under different brand names. If you need to run in these sectors do it by acquisition or via JVs with the intent to acquire complete control or sell. For example, buy Lotus and make the Boxster & Boxster RS, do the SUV with Landrover or someone with a name in the area.
I'm not a fan of brand stretching and my take is that this is exactly what Porsche have done. Most of us have grown up with the name 'Porsche' standing for expensive but fast sports cars, latterly it more closely represents engineering excellence; this is not a particularly engaging concept, and it's not unique either. It may not even be true, but that's beside the point. While they might have got away with the Boxster, the Cayenne was too much, and their core market appears to be suffering as a result. Bear in mind though that we are connecting cause and effect here, and the link might be as direct as it appears.
All IMO of course. No offence intended.
Bloody things are heavy enough to sink a battleship, let alone sales. Can't do nothing but damage the image of the best Sports Car manufacturer in the world. Imagine the guffaws if Lotus or TVR decided to launch an SUV?
Seriously though my guess is that now the OPCs have retrained their staff as 4x4 salesmen there will naturally be a downturn in their efforts to sell cars that will not fit in wife/3 kids/labrador/kitchen sink, presumeably because:
a) its easier to sell a badge to the whole family
b) their commission is bigger on the Cayenne
c) the immediate competition is dated (ML, X5, RR)
My main concern though is the ever increasing desire to drive huge thirsty cars in order to take the kids to school, this in spite of the Country having the most expensive fuel in Europe. Hey, bring on the Hummer.
Seriously though my guess is that now the OPCs have retrained their staff as 4x4 salesmen there will naturally be a downturn in their efforts to sell cars that will not fit in wife/3 kids/labrador/kitchen sink, presumeably because:
a) its easier to sell a badge to the whole family
b) their commission is bigger on the Cayenne
c) the immediate competition is dated (ML, X5, RR)
My main concern though is the ever increasing desire to drive huge thirsty cars in order to take the kids to school, this in spite of the Country having the most expensive fuel in Europe. Hey, bring on the Hummer.
Hi all!
Porsche has one problem; it's called 911. 911 made bad marketing for 914, 928 and 924...968.
The 928 was meant to supercede the 911 with a V8 front engine. 911 sales didn't drop when the 928 was introduced, neither did they years later, because the 911 Cabrio was introduced AFAIK.
When the 901 was introduced, the die-hard Porsche drivers didn't want the 356 production to stop. Porsche did then. So should they have with the 911 production when the 928 was introduced, in order to dictate the more refined and innovative 928 to be the Porsche to have.
The way things went is to blame that every new/other Porsche will be compared to the 911, whose long lasting heritage and high profile (naturally) none could meet.
Don't get me wrong, the 911 is a fantastic vehicle, but it's also a patchwork around a basis which relies on a 6-boxer rear engine. Introducing a watercooled engine was a small step towards innovation dictate, which (honest now) divided the group of Porsche enthusiast drivers into water- and aircooled ones.
Since the only serious trackday car in the current Porsche portfolio are 911 derivates, and hence expensive; Porsche should introduce a light fixed head Boxster spec'd for enthusiastic driver's needs. In terms of appearance, equipment, marketing and design, it should come as a Clubsport variant as in 968CS: lower price, lesser electronic and comfortable aids, stiffer suspension. The negative effect for marketing of a low price between 30k and 40k€ should be compensated by a strict 'made for track' image. This setup would jockey the current Boxster image, 'Yuppy entry level Porsche' towards professional use, from which the open Boxster would surely have benefits.
Interesting topic, keep your opinions coming!
Porsche has one problem; it's called 911. 911 made bad marketing for 914, 928 and 924...968.
The 928 was meant to supercede the 911 with a V8 front engine. 911 sales didn't drop when the 928 was introduced, neither did they years later, because the 911 Cabrio was introduced AFAIK.
When the 901 was introduced, the die-hard Porsche drivers didn't want the 356 production to stop. Porsche did then. So should they have with the 911 production when the 928 was introduced, in order to dictate the more refined and innovative 928 to be the Porsche to have.
The way things went is to blame that every new/other Porsche will be compared to the 911, whose long lasting heritage and high profile (naturally) none could meet.
Don't get me wrong, the 911 is a fantastic vehicle, but it's also a patchwork around a basis which relies on a 6-boxer rear engine. Introducing a watercooled engine was a small step towards innovation dictate, which (honest now) divided the group of Porsche enthusiast drivers into water- and aircooled ones.
Since the only serious trackday car in the current Porsche portfolio are 911 derivates, and hence expensive; Porsche should introduce a light fixed head Boxster spec'd for enthusiastic driver's needs. In terms of appearance, equipment, marketing and design, it should come as a Clubsport variant as in 968CS: lower price, lesser electronic and comfortable aids, stiffer suspension. The negative effect for marketing of a low price between 30k and 40k€ should be compensated by a strict 'made for track' image. This setup would jockey the current Boxster image, 'Yuppy entry level Porsche' towards professional use, from which the open Boxster would surely have benefits.
Interesting topic, keep your opinions coming!
I think that Porsche have got themselves into a very difficult position due to ....
Not enough model separation between the 996 and the Boxster - they use the same front-end and interior FFS.
The Cayenne is (IMHO) a big mistake - how much to develop new engine from scratch etc., plus not playing to brand sweetspot.
I think that they would have done better not creating the Boxster S (much as I would like one) and should have stuck with the entry-to-Porsche Boxster, and the various 911 variants, and if they really wanted to have a Boxster S make it a really wild Boxster RS and charge appropriately.
They should have a Boxster race series and a 911 C4S race series, rebadge the Cayenne as something else and concentrate on what they know.
All IMHO of course.
Mike.
Not enough model separation between the 996 and the Boxster - they use the same front-end and interior FFS.
The Cayenne is (IMHO) a big mistake - how much to develop new engine from scratch etc., plus not playing to brand sweetspot.
I think that they would have done better not creating the Boxster S (much as I would like one) and should have stuck with the entry-to-Porsche Boxster, and the various 911 variants, and if they really wanted to have a Boxster S make it a really wild Boxster RS and charge appropriately.
They should have a Boxster race series and a 911 C4S race series, rebadge the Cayenne as something else and concentrate on what they know.
All IMHO of course.
Mike.
sb-1 said:
Seems to me that without the Cayenne,Porsche would be deep in the poo according to the motoring press.Sales of 996/Boxsters are well down.
So those who are knocking the Pepper....what would you have done to keep Porsche afloat for the next decade or two?
Steve
I agree with what 9M was basically saying... the Cayenne has CAUSED some of the downturn in sales in Boxsters and 996s. After all, you had a 996 and instead of getting a new one, for example, you got a Cayenne. You are proving the statistics in your own behaviour, Steve
So please cancel the order for the pepper and buy a 996 again to put things right.
weissach said:
Hi all!
Since the only serious trackday car in the current Porsche portfolio are 911 derivates, and hence expensive; Porsche should introduce a light fixed head Boxster spec'd for enthusiastic driver's needs. In terms of appearance, equipment, marketing and design, it should come as a Clubsport variant as in 968CS: lower price, lesser electronic and comfortable aids, stiffer suspension. The negative effect for marketing of a low price between 30k and 40k€ should be compensated by a strict 'made for track' image. This setup would jockey the current Boxster image, 'Yuppy entry level Porsche' towards professional use, from which the open Boxster would surely have benefits.
Interesting topic, keep your opinions coming!
I have been badgering on about a Boxster RS for years now. 456mgt (Kev) also mentioned it. This is a great opportunity for Porsche drivers, but I doubt Porsche will do it. Why? Because it will probably be as quick as a sodding 996GT3-RS for half the money!
Now, I can see them doing a Club Sport version of the Boxster, which would lose a little weight cheaply, have lots of equipment thrown out and not be any more powerful than a standard S.
It won't account for many sales though, despite having rave reviews from the press, simply because the Boxster market still has its fair share of Z4/SLK poseurs in it, who want the toys and cupholders. These are the people Porsche can make bread and butter money out of.
I think the reason why 911 and boxster sales are down is that they are getting near end of product life and both have already been facelifted. Todays market is not like the one of 20-25 years ago, there is much more competition for starters, to keep or grow market share you have to invest in your core products- in this case sportscars. Porsche have neglected development of their sportscars and abdicated their endurance racing crown . The Cayenne must have been guilty of absorbing/diverting resources and speeded up the fall.
In reality its people who make the difference and I guess some key players/petrolheads in the Porsche organisation of yesteryear no longer exist or influence things ( Piech, Ulrich Baz etc)- no disrespect to WW
In reality its people who make the difference and I guess some key players/petrolheads in the Porsche organisation of yesteryear no longer exist or influence things ( Piech, Ulrich Baz etc)- no disrespect to WW
If anyone wants a Boxster RS, we'll gladly build you one!
Choose from: carbon recaros, harnesses, rear cage, no a/c, sat nav or traction, wind up windows, nominal sound deadening, -30mm ride height with adjustable dampers, 18" mag wheels, 300-350bhp 3.2/3.4/3.6 normally aspirated engine, lightweight flywheel & clutch, etc.......
So who is first in the queue?
Choose from: carbon recaros, harnesses, rear cage, no a/c, sat nav or traction, wind up windows, nominal sound deadening, -30mm ride height with adjustable dampers, 18" mag wheels, 300-350bhp 3.2/3.4/3.6 normally aspirated engine, lightweight flywheel & clutch, etc.......
So who is first in the queue?
Pretty much agree with bit's from all of your post's, although I think the Boxter has added greatly to their business, the number of people I have spoken to who got their 996 after having time with a Boxter.
I think the main reason for the downturn is Porsche were too conservative with their mid-term facelifts.
You can hear them saying "hey guy's sales are great we don't need to do much add a few more horses & a glove box,that keeps profit up & leaves us more to play with next time" !!!! You now have a fleet of Merc's that are as quick as a 996TT in a straight line, the new Z4
has just beaten the Boxter in magazine tests & the Cayenne looks pig ugly, so why choose one over the other prestige brands available.Basically the competetion has played catch up !!!
I feel they need to take a large step forward with the 997, but I fear that they will add another few horses & a new look, so they still have something to play with down the line !! Porsche now have direct injection petrol technology, but I bet they won't use it yet. New BoxterS should have 300bhp
996 380bhp & 996TT 500bhp, with updated interior's, a fresh new look, development's on handling & brakes & introduce the new Boxter Coupe they are talking about. Lets see them leapfrog the competition once again, otherwise the next AMG AudiRS M3/M5/M6 will be leaving the 997 for dead on the road & in the showrooms.
I think the main reason for the downturn is Porsche were too conservative with their mid-term facelifts.
You can hear them saying "hey guy's sales are great we don't need to do much add a few more horses & a glove box,that keeps profit up & leaves us more to play with next time" !!!! You now have a fleet of Merc's that are as quick as a 996TT in a straight line, the new Z4
has just beaten the Boxter in magazine tests & the Cayenne looks pig ugly, so why choose one over the other prestige brands available.Basically the competetion has played catch up !!!
I feel they need to take a large step forward with the 997, but I fear that they will add another few horses & a new look, so they still have something to play with down the line !! Porsche now have direct injection petrol technology, but I bet they won't use it yet. New BoxterS should have 300bhp
996 380bhp & 996TT 500bhp, with updated interior's, a fresh new look, development's on handling & brakes & introduce the new Boxter Coupe they are talking about. Lets see them leapfrog the competition once again, otherwise the next AMG AudiRS M3/M5/M6 will be leaving the 997 for dead on the road & in the showrooms.
Eh up Domster, just wot do you take me for, stoopid?
Now, if Porsche would supply us with rolling shells like they do with Ruf we could be onto something special. Who do I have to phone up to ask?
Incidentally, since a CS toolbox would have to be stripped bare in order to respray it appropriate Maritime Blue/Speed Yellow/Rubystone Red the best way to build a special would be to start with a clean accident damaged salvage car, since the donor will then set you back just £25k and the finished product will be £5-10k under book. Just think of all the bits left over that you could sell on as well. Got one available......
Now, if Porsche would supply us with rolling shells like they do with Ruf we could be onto something special. Who do I have to phone up to ask?
Incidentally, since a CS toolbox would have to be stripped bare in order to respray it appropriate Maritime Blue/Speed Yellow/Rubystone Red the best way to build a special would be to start with a clean accident damaged salvage car, since the donor will then set you back just £25k and the finished product will be £5-10k under book. Just think of all the bits left over that you could sell on as well. Got one available......
I think it is a great idea.
Iguana and I know of a GT3 engined Boxster as well. Now that, stripped out and in a primary Porsche colour, would indeed be the dog's dangly bits.
I vote Colin to be head of product development at Porsche. I'm sure we would have got an RS Cayenne out of it, too
Iguana and I know of a GT3 engined Boxster as well. Now that, stripped out and in a primary Porsche colour, would indeed be the dog's dangly bits.
I vote Colin to be head of product development at Porsche. I'm sure we would have got an RS Cayenne out of it, too
Just got called by Porsche - doing a telephone survey into 600 new UK buyers (er....that'll be me then) Wanted to know answers to about 50 q's - mainly to do with the Cayenne - good thing / bad thing for the marque...
I told them the truth....
...and the bloke said ... "funny that, everybody says the same thing"
I told them the truth....
...and the bloke said ... "funny that, everybody says the same thing"
GetCarter said:
Just got called by Porsche - doing a telephone survey into 600 new UK buyers (er....that'll be me then) Wanted to know answers to about 50 q's - mainly to do with the Cayenne - good thing / bad thing for the marque...
I told them the truth....
...and the bloke said ... "funny that, everybody says the same thing"
Whats that then GC?
Steve I hope you managed to mention Porsche's absence from Lemans in all 50 answers.
Personally I like the Cayenne as a superbly engineered speedbump jumping machine of no equal. I think it is great that Porsche are offering their customers 4*4s that go like stink and handle well. If I had the dough there'd be a Cayenne Turbo on the drive next to the proper turbo. If only the cretins at town hall realised their little pet speedbump projects are making people buy 12mpg off road monsters that can go around test tracks quicker than an M3.
DAZ
Personally I like the Cayenne as a superbly engineered speedbump jumping machine of no equal. I think it is great that Porsche are offering their customers 4*4s that go like stink and handle well. If I had the dough there'd be a Cayenne Turbo on the drive next to the proper turbo. If only the cretins at town hall realised their little pet speedbump projects are making people buy 12mpg off road monsters that can go around test tracks quicker than an M3.
DAZ
dazren said:
Steve I hope you managed to mention Porsche's absence from Lemans in all 50 answers.
Personally I like the Cayenne as a superbly engineered speedbump jumping machine of no equal. I think it is great that Porsche are offering their customers 4*4s that go like stink and handle well. If I had the dough there'd be a Cayenne Turbo on the drive next to the proper turbo. If only the cretins at town hall realised their little pet speedbump projects are making people buy 12mpg off road monsters that can go around test tracks quicker than an M3.
DAZ
Well said Daz,
I certainly can't wait until mine comes!
Steve
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