TVR Taimar 4700 SE LWB...
Discussion
...or some such thing was advertised (now showing as sold) here: http://www.beaulieugarage.co.uk/stock/tvr/index.ht...
This car clearly has a lengthened wheelbase. I presume around 6"-8". Did someone who was 6'-6" tall have a desire for a TVR? I doubt it, as it does not look as though this added length was incorporated into either of the foot wells.
The battery has been relocated way up high and centered in order to raise the CG and to place it closer to the driver's face.
Judging by the rear wheel offset and the fender extensions, a non-modified Jaguar E or possibly Corvette rear end may have been used in the build.
The ad states that this car has an "Aston Martin ZF 5 speed manual" gearbox. I wonder if it was new or used. If it was new, it's just a ZF box. If it was used and abused, they bought the pedigree and got the mileage for free
.
They also wrote: "Rose jointed suspension.Roll cage. FIA fuel tank. etc etc.", so somebody put forth an effort. I'd like to know to what end.
Does anyone know anything about this car? I find it intriguing.
Bernard.
This car clearly has a lengthened wheelbase. I presume around 6"-8". Did someone who was 6'-6" tall have a desire for a TVR? I doubt it, as it does not look as though this added length was incorporated into either of the foot wells.
The battery has been relocated way up high and centered in order to raise the CG and to place it closer to the driver's face.
Judging by the rear wheel offset and the fender extensions, a non-modified Jaguar E or possibly Corvette rear end may have been used in the build.
The ad states that this car has an "Aston Martin ZF 5 speed manual" gearbox. I wonder if it was new or used. If it was new, it's just a ZF box. If it was used and abused, they bought the pedigree and got the mileage for free
. They also wrote: "Rose jointed suspension.Roll cage. FIA fuel tank. etc etc.", so somebody put forth an effort. I'd like to know to what end.
Does anyone know anything about this car? I find it intriguing.
Bernard.
It was on fleaBay in Mar 06 and went BIN for £7.5k. The ad read:-
"Finished in red, this car was developed over several years by a wealthy industrialist, regardless of expense, by Mathwall Engineering, Hall and Fowler, and others. The car was in storage for many years, hence the low mileage. Ford 289 hi-po engine was built by Mathwall Engineering, who have recently fitted brand new Edelbrock heads and manifold with new Holley carb. Aston Martin ZF 5 speed gearbox. Adjustable rose jointed Jaguar suspension, lengthened chassis with flared arches. FIA integral roll cage and fuel cell. Adjustable brake bias. Refubished period compomotive split rim alloys, with new Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres. This vehicle is a one off in first class condition and will be appreciated by a TVR classic enthusiast looking for a unique, super fast, head turner. Price drastically reduced due to imminent relocation. Unrepeatable bargain."
I kept a copy of the auction details as I was thinking about going down the IRS route on my Taimar to cope with my 302, and thought the contacts might be useful. I never followed it up as I got photo's of a 3000M/302/IRS from Kash Biddle.
Looking at the pics, the exhaust manifold looks like it goes forwards, so the lengthening doesn't look to me to be to get it round the back of the block.
Interestingly it has 5-stud wheels. Maybe it has Jaguar suspension up front too... wonder what sort?
"Finished in red, this car was developed over several years by a wealthy industrialist, regardless of expense, by Mathwall Engineering, Hall and Fowler, and others. The car was in storage for many years, hence the low mileage. Ford 289 hi-po engine was built by Mathwall Engineering, who have recently fitted brand new Edelbrock heads and manifold with new Holley carb. Aston Martin ZF 5 speed gearbox. Adjustable rose jointed Jaguar suspension, lengthened chassis with flared arches. FIA integral roll cage and fuel cell. Adjustable brake bias. Refubished period compomotive split rim alloys, with new Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres. This vehicle is a one off in first class condition and will be appreciated by a TVR classic enthusiast looking for a unique, super fast, head turner. Price drastically reduced due to imminent relocation. Unrepeatable bargain."
I kept a copy of the auction details as I was thinking about going down the IRS route on my Taimar to cope with my 302, and thought the contacts might be useful. I never followed it up as I got photo's of a 3000M/302/IRS from Kash Biddle.
Looking at the pics, the exhaust manifold looks like it goes forwards, so the lengthening doesn't look to me to be to get it round the back of the block.
Interestingly it has 5-stud wheels. Maybe it has Jaguar suspension up front too... wonder what sort?
status said:
I was thinking about going down the IRS route on my Taimar to cope with my 302, and thought the contacts might be useful. I never followed it up as I got photo's of a 3000M/302/IRS from Kash Biddle.
What are you doing with yours? I went with a 1990 Supra Turbo clutch type limited slip differential, mounted solidly in the frame. What's in the pictures? status said:
Looking at the pics, the exhaust manifold looks like it goes forwards, so the lengthening doesn't look to me to be to get it round the back of the block.
Have you done your exhaust yet? The cylinder heads I purchased for the sake of more power have the exhaust ports slightly higher than standard. Now the headers I started building earlier have even worse interference issues. status said:
Interestingly it has 5-stud wheels. Maybe it has Jaguar suspension up front too... wonder what sort?
Mine has 5-stud front hubs liberated from a 1989 Mazda Rx7 turbo. I had a machinist turn new stubs from 1018 steel. This way I can walk into any parts shop and service the four-piston aluminum calipers and new rotors cost around $25.00 each. B.
Slow M said:
status said:
I was thinking about going down the IRS route on my Taimar to cope with my 302, and thought the contacts might be useful. I never followed it up as I got photo's of a 3000M/302/IRS from Kash Biddle.
What are you doing with yours? I went with a 1990 Supra Turbo clutch type limited slip differential, mounted solidly in the frame. What's in the pictures? Slow M said:
status said:
Looking at the pics, the exhaust manifold looks like it goes forwards, so the lengthening doesn't look to me to be to get it round the back of the block.
Have you done your exhaust yet? The cylinder heads I purchased for the sake of more power have the exhaust ports slightly higher than standard. Now the headers I started building earlier have even worse interference issues. Slow M said:
status said:
Interestingly it has 5-stud wheels. Maybe it has Jaguar suspension up front too... wonder what sort?
Mine has 5-stud front hubs liberated from a 1989 Mazda Rx7 turbo. I had a machinist turn new stubs from 1018 steel. This way I can walk into any parts shop and service the four-piston aluminum calipers and new rotors cost around $25.00 each. B.
moments and see how I progressed from there.cheers
Nick
If anyone's interested, I uploaded the IRS pics to http://community.webshots.com/album/564030188svmGV...
Nick
Nick
Is it a pre-M or post-M frame? the IRS in Kash's car all looks a very heavy way of achieving just a little reduction in unsprung weight to me?
By the time you have factored in the hubs etc as a weight saving over the std uprights and drums I would have thought that any weight saving would be negligible.
Looks pretty though and it would be strong for drag racing, There are other ways of ensuring a 302 install puts the power down though.
I think the car is totally butchered over what it should be and looks totally out of proportion from the side.
N.
By the time you have factored in the hubs etc as a weight saving over the std uprights and drums I would have thought that any weight saving would be negligible.
Looks pretty though and it would be strong for drag racing, There are other ways of ensuring a 302 install puts the power down though.
I think the car is totally butchered over what it should be and looks totally out of proportion from the side.
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Tuesday 8th July 05:37
Edited by heightswitch on Tuesday 8th July 05:39
heightswitch said:
the IRS in Kash's car all looks a very heavy way of achieving just a little reduction in unsprung weight to me?
By the time you have factored in the hubs etc as a weight saving over the std uprights and drums I would have thought that any weight saving would be negligible.
Looks pretty though and it would be strong for drag racing, There are other ways of ensuring a 302 install puts the power down though.
I was looking at the IRS as a known reliable way to handle more power than I believed the standard setup would comfortably cope with, especially if I wanted to bolt any extra goodies into the 302 By the time you have factored in the hubs etc as a weight saving over the std uprights and drums I would have thought that any weight saving would be negligible.
Looks pretty though and it would be strong for drag racing, There are other ways of ensuring a 302 install puts the power down though.
I am aware that uprated hubs are available (at a price) - what other options are there if I end up exploding the standard setup?
heightswitch said:
I think the car is totally butchered over what it should be and looks totally out of proportion from the side.
N.
I agree - I briefly thought of bidding on the LWB car but every time I went back for another look it was still ugly! N.
Kash's car looks completely standard btw
cheers
Nick
heightswitch said:
Edited by heightswitch on Tuesday 8th July 05:37
Edited by heightswitch on Tuesday 8th July 05:39
Kash's car is lovely.
Regards the Salsbury rear end, The bit that matters is the diff and this comes as std, you want a 3.31 with a 4 speed and a 3.54 with a 5 speed for a good spread of ratios with a T5.
The M hubs and driveshafts etc are pretty strong and will take lots of power pretty reliably albeit with more U/J wear. you can switch over to proper CV joints to get around this.
The weak set up is the vixens smaller hubs and quill shafts
The back end of a full IRS car is very heavy.
N.
Regards the Salsbury rear end, The bit that matters is the diff and this comes as std, you want a 3.31 with a 4 speed and a 3.54 with a 5 speed for a good spread of ratios with a T5.
The M hubs and driveshafts etc are pretty strong and will take lots of power pretty reliably albeit with more U/J wear. you can switch over to proper CV joints to get around this.
The weak set up is the vixens smaller hubs and quill shafts
The back end of a full IRS car is very heavy.
N.
This particular car in question was custom built from parts at the factory for a special customer named McAlpine. It was fitted from new with SE style bodywork, the tuned engine, the ZF gearbox and Salisbury rear end. It has changed hands a number of times in recent years and from all I've read about it, it can be quite a handful to drive.
Hi Marshall,
thanks for the info. I'd love to see detail pictures. Although I also think that it looks ungainly, I feel that there may be lessons to be learned from it, especially, I'd like to see how the front and rear suspensions are set up.
Neil, Nick, from what I have been told, and I don't mind learning from others, there are several problem areas in the basic M drivetrain when dramatically increasing the power/torque.
1. When a sufficient torque load is applied, the splined axles lock and, in effect, become a solid rear. As this usually uccurs roughly mid-corner, the rear suspension is locked in an offset position as you exit the corner. Curtesy of Lankee Foushee -Group 44
2. The stub axles (do you call these quill shafts?) WILL snap, especially when tire size is also increased. Curtesy of Steve Ferron
3. The rigidity of the rear uprights (hub carriers) can be improved by filling (welding plates into) the voids. Curtesy of John Wadman -TVR North America.
4. The lower wishbones will distort under heavy accelerative loads and must also be reinforced.
I'm not certain if this came from Adrian@ or John Reid
5. Triumph differentials will fail.
Just guessing.
My reasons for worrying are that David Vizard recently Dyno tested an engine that was very similar to mine at 535HP/440LB/ft and that my rear tires are 275/35/18.
Std M series are all IRS.
Somebody at a classic/vintage car and motorcycle show in Florida did something very similar a few years ago. Is it the same car?
B.
thanks for the info. I'd love to see detail pictures. Although I also think that it looks ungainly, I feel that there may be lessons to be learned from it, especially, I'd like to see how the front and rear suspensions are set up.
Neil, Nick, from what I have been told, and I don't mind learning from others, there are several problem areas in the basic M drivetrain when dramatically increasing the power/torque.
1. When a sufficient torque load is applied, the splined axles lock and, in effect, become a solid rear. As this usually uccurs roughly mid-corner, the rear suspension is locked in an offset position as you exit the corner. Curtesy of Lankee Foushee -Group 44
2. The stub axles (do you call these quill shafts?) WILL snap, especially when tire size is also increased. Curtesy of Steve Ferron
3. The rigidity of the rear uprights (hub carriers) can be improved by filling (welding plates into) the voids. Curtesy of John Wadman -TVR North America.
4. The lower wishbones will distort under heavy accelerative loads and must also be reinforced.
I'm not certain if this came from Adrian@ or John Reid
5. Triumph differentials will fail.
Just guessing.
My reasons for worrying are that David Vizard recently Dyno tested an engine that was very similar to mine at 535HP/440LB/ft and that my rear tires are 275/35/18.
heightswitch said:
The back end of a full IRS car is very heavy.
Neil, what do you mean? Std M series are all IRS. heightswitch said:
Kash's car is lovely.
I totally agree. http://www.tvr.at/vixen2-28.htmlSomebody at a classic/vintage car and motorcycle show in Florida did something very similar a few years ago. Is it the same car?
B.
Slow M said:
Hi Marshall,
thanks for the info. I'd love to see detail pictures. Although I also think that it looks ungainly, I feel that there may be lessons to be learned from it, especially, I'd like to see how the front and rear suspensions are set up.
Neil, Nick, from what I have been told, and I don't mind learning from others, there are several problem areas in the basic M drivetrain when dramatically increasing the power/torque.
1. When a sufficient torque load is applied, the splined axles lock and, in effect, become a solid rear. As this usually uccurs roughly mid-corner, the rear suspension is locked in an offset position as you exit the corner. Curtesy of Lankee Foushee -Group 44
2. The stub axles (do you call these quill shafts?) WILL snap, especially when tire size is also increased. Curtesy of Steve Ferron
3. The rigidity of the rear uprights (hub carriers) can be improved by filling (welding plates into) the voids. Curtesy of John Wadman -TVR North America.
4. The lower wishbones will distort under heavy accelerative loads and must also be reinforced.
I'm not certain if this came from Adrian@ or John Reid
5. Triumph differentials will fail.
Just guessing.
My reasons for worrying are that David Vizard recently Dyno tested an engine that was very similar to mine at 535HP/440LB/ft and that my rear tires are 275/35/18.
Std M series are all IRS.
Somebody at a classic/vintage car and motorcycle show in Florida did something very similar a few years ago. Is it the same car?
B.
Nope M's have a 4HU diff with the rest of the jag rubbish thrown away and much lighter componants.thanks for the info. I'd love to see detail pictures. Although I also think that it looks ungainly, I feel that there may be lessons to be learned from it, especially, I'd like to see how the front and rear suspensions are set up.
Neil, Nick, from what I have been told, and I don't mind learning from others, there are several problem areas in the basic M drivetrain when dramatically increasing the power/torque.
1. When a sufficient torque load is applied, the splined axles lock and, in effect, become a solid rear. As this usually uccurs roughly mid-corner, the rear suspension is locked in an offset position as you exit the corner. Curtesy of Lankee Foushee -Group 44
2. The stub axles (do you call these quill shafts?) WILL snap, especially when tire size is also increased. Curtesy of Steve Ferron
3. The rigidity of the rear uprights (hub carriers) can be improved by filling (welding plates into) the voids. Curtesy of John Wadman -TVR North America.
4. The lower wishbones will distort under heavy accelerative loads and must also be reinforced.
I'm not certain if this came from Adrian@ or John Reid
5. Triumph differentials will fail.
Just guessing.
My reasons for worrying are that David Vizard recently Dyno tested an engine that was very similar to mine at 535HP/440LB/ft and that my rear tires are 275/35/18.
heightswitch said:
The back end of a full IRS car is very heavy.
Neil, what do you mean? Std M series are all IRS. heightswitch said:
Kash's car is lovely.
I totally agree. http://www.tvr.at/vixen2-28.htmlSomebody at a classic/vintage car and motorcycle show in Florida did something very similar a few years ago. Is it the same car?
B.
You can retain the M hub and have some adapters machined to allow the use of custom driveshafts and CV joints to eliminate splinelock
Yes you can strengthen rear wishbones but I think for a road car this is probably not too necessary but I am pretty sure a Mr Venn will be along shortly to tell me I am wrong
N.
heightswitch said:
Nope M's have a 4HU diff with the rest of the jag rubbish thrown away and much lighter componants.
Neil, 3000 use Salisbury 4HU, 2500 use TR6. I don't know what 1600 use but I'd wager a guess that TVR used TR6 or GT6 or something similar. Is your car getting close to done yet? Have a look at this,
http://www.britishv8.org/Other/DanCurtis.htm
Look at the valve covers.
B.
Slow M said:
heightswitch said:
Nope M's have a 4HU diff with the rest of the jag rubbish thrown away and much lighter componants.
Neil, 3000 use Salisbury 4HU, 2500 use TR6. I don't know what 1600 use but I'd wager a guess that TVR used TR6 or GT6 or something similar. Is your car getting close to done yet? Have a look at this,
http://www.britishv8.org/Other/DanCurtis.htm
Look at the valve covers.
B.
My car is getting a bit farther on.
some pics of it are posted on the TVR tuscan Challenge page in the motorsport section. Just look for "boat Anchor progress"
N.
the full IRS setup would be...It's back on the market again and looks like the market must be picking up, given the suggested price
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