LS1 Cerbie mapping results
Discussion
I spent yesterday down at Austec with Paul and Mark Adams doing the final mapping on the LS1 Cerb.
The results where 368 bhp at the fly and just under 300 bhp at the rear wheels with peak power at 6000 rpm. Torque was 355lb/ft with 300lb ft from 2600.
It has been transformed. It is so smooth and free revving it isn't true. It pulls away smoothly from 18mph in fifth yet it screams if you want it.
Fuel economy seems to be excellent. The 100 mile drive home last night included a stop-start crawl around the M25 from J10 to J17 and it took an indicated 1/4 of a tank.
This conversion's target was to provide a replacement alternative to a shrapnelled AJP in terms of cost and performance. It certainly has done that with more power and torque than most AJPs and this is with an engine that has not been touched or tweaked in any way. Apart from using the MBE ECU it is the same as when GM built it, the Corvette driver wrapped the car around a tree and it arrived on a pallet.
To say I am pleased is an understatement. Many thanks to Paul and Mark for their efforts.
The results where 368 bhp at the fly and just under 300 bhp at the rear wheels with peak power at 6000 rpm. Torque was 355lb/ft with 300lb ft from 2600.
It has been transformed. It is so smooth and free revving it isn't true. It pulls away smoothly from 18mph in fifth yet it screams if you want it.
Fuel economy seems to be excellent. The 100 mile drive home last night included a stop-start crawl around the M25 from J10 to J17 and it took an indicated 1/4 of a tank.
This conversion's target was to provide a replacement alternative to a shrapnelled AJP in terms of cost and performance. It certainly has done that with more power and torque than most AJPs and this is with an engine that has not been touched or tweaked in any way. Apart from using the MBE ECU it is the same as when GM built it, the Corvette driver wrapped the car around a tree and it arrived on a pallet.
To say I am pleased is an understatement. Many thanks to Paul and Mark for their efforts.
Whilst I admire anyone who creates their own unique version of a car (your spercharged wedge for example is exactly the sort of wild beast I love to see ) I can't see the point of all that time and effort to end up with something as fast or maybe even slower than a good remapped std cerbera. I know you had to replace the engine anyway but as Brummie says it'd cost peanuts in the grand scheme of things to spice it up a bit. But then it's not my car so 
if it's what you wanted. 
I'm not a fan of cerbera engine transplants but it does seem to have a bit of a following so good luck with your engine kit sales
if it's what you wanted. I'm not a fan of cerbera engine transplants but it does seem to have a bit of a following so good luck with your engine kit sales Steve
A harty well done - I know it's taken you some time to do but I expect that time has been spent in making the conversion process repeatable and at a reasonable cost.
As others have said - the original AJP V8 is a great engine but there will come a time when these engines become scarse and parts impossible to get and you kit will be available which is a good thing.
Good luck with it.
A harty well done - I know it's taken you some time to do but I expect that time has been spent in making the conversion process repeatable and at a reasonable cost.
As others have said - the original AJP V8 is a great engine but there will come a time when these engines become scarse and parts impossible to get and you kit will be available which is a good thing.
Good luck with it.
Brummmie said:
Should drive real smoooth! But you could've just put a relatively small cam only in that and seen 40-50bhp,no losses in power or torque anywhere, and increased rev range, and cost would be £300ish. Dont you think it would have been worth doing?
With hindsight... probably yes and I still have that as an option... along with any other upgrades and whatever. At the moment I just want to drive it and suffer from chronic grin-itis. But the point I am pleased with is even the lowly LS1 is a more than adequate engine replacement for the AJP. Also bear in mind the car is intended for runaround daily use and to be honest I don't want or need to get a lot more power out of it. If I want thrills I drive the wedge. If I want to enjoy a good drive without worrying about engine problems I can drive the Cerb. And by the way if you have had 3 AJPs go bang then I don't care how blind your faith in TVRs is, you can't get rid of that "is it, isn't it" feeling in the back of your mind when you hit the throttle.
I also don't have to worry about the AJP servicing costs and so on. So in the end I have a car that is relaxing and fun to drive with more than adequate performance - far more than most Cerbs have - and a route to oodles more that doesn't cost the earth. With the cam change I suspect that very few if any AJPs would stay with it simply because of the low down torque curve. But that is irrelevant for me as I am not chasing BHP figures or massive power. As I said I have the Wedge for that.
Byker28i said:
Sounds interesting, but less power than a 4.5 ajp makes?
Depends on the 4.5. Comparing it with other Cerbs that Paul's had on his rolling road it was in excess of the any 4.2 and about slightly higher than standard 4.5s. However, look in the archives and a standard 4.5 is producing around 360 bhp - 8 bhp below what I am getting.As Brummie says, it doesn't cost much to get another 40-50 bhp to beat the bhp specs of most AJPs. This is also the entry level cheapo LS engine with nothing done to it.
Edited by shpub on Thursday 10th July 13:44
shpub said:
The results where 368 bhp at the fly and just under 300 bhp at the rear wheels with peak power at 6000 rpm. Torque was 355lb/ft with 300lb ft from 2600.
It has been transformed. It is so smooth and free revving it isn't true. It pulls away smoothly from 18mph in fifth yet it screams if you want it.
Fuel economy seems to be excellent. The 100 mile drive home last night included a stop-start crawl around the M25 from J10 to J17 and it took an indicated 1/4 of a tank.
368bhp from a bone stock LS1 isn't bad at all. Just thinking you might have a better engine than you think - out of curiosity what casting number is on your heads? You should a number that is either #241 or #243 (there are others but those are the common ones) with your 368hp I would think that you might have the 243 heads which would mean you have the LS6 heads - you would be begging for the LS6 cam :PIt has been transformed. It is so smooth and free revving it isn't true. It pulls away smoothly from 18mph in fifth yet it screams if you want it.
Fuel economy seems to be excellent. The 100 mile drive home last night included a stop-start crawl around the M25 from J10 to J17 and it took an indicated 1/4 of a tank.
I remember you saying earlier that you managed to use the original Cerbera flywheel, is that the case?
How light is it compared to the one that came with the LS1? Just in the process of looking at possible LS flywheels for my build and was curious to see what the spec of the AJP is. There are LS aluminium flywheels which weigh around 7kg, though I am looking for a steel one...
rev-erend said:
Look forward to the entry on your website that says :
Cerbera Engine conversion to LS1 spec £xxxx.xxp
Coming soon ...Cerbera Engine conversion to LS1 spec £xxxx.xxp
LS1/R (red anodized) £xxxx.xxp add to basket
LS1/B (blue anodized) £xxxx.xxp add to basket
Edited by GreenV8S on Thursday 10th July 15:37
GreenV8S said:
rev-erend said:
Look forward to the entry on your website that says :
Cerbera Engine conversion to LS1 spec £xxxx.xxp
Coming soon ...Cerbera Engine conversion to LS1 spec £xxxx.xxp
LS1/R (red anodized) £xxxx.xxp add to basket
LS1/B (blue anodized) £xxxx.xxp add to basket
Edited by GreenV8S on Thursday 10th July 15:37
hahithestevieboy said:
Is there any reason that an LS7 (or other LS) couldnt be used instead of an LS1?
Personally, I'd love a cerb that I could reasonably maintain (mostly) myself.
No but the key point is how much power do you want? The conversion I have done has been the cheapest I could do and I reused most of the Cerbera's existing parts e.g. exhaust, powertrain, gearbox, ecu etc. As soon as you start getting into the bigger power then the amount of work and cost increases because of the need to upgrade other parts or because custom bespoke bits are needed. Personally, I'd love a cerb that I could reasonably maintain (mostly) myself.
This has been covered a lot in the mods section.
You can maintain a cerbera yourself .. everything except maybe the electronics is easy peasy 1930s technology (or earlier!) . Even the AJP8 engine is simple and reliable. If you're not doing basic maintenance on your cerb because you think it's too complicated you should look a bit closer .. complicated it ain't!
eLSerbera said:
368bhp from a bone stock LS1 isn't bad at all. Just thinking you might have a better engine than you think - out of curiosity what casting number is on your heads? You should a number that is either #241 or #243 (there are others but those are the common ones) with your 368hp I would think that you might have the 243 heads which would mean you have the LS6 heads - you would be begging for the LS6 cam :P
I remember you saying earlier that you managed to use the original Cerbera flywheel, is that the case?
How light is it compared to the one that came with the LS1? Just in the process of looking at possible LS flywheels for my build and was curious to see what the spec of the AJP is. There are LS aluminium flywheels which weigh around 7kg, though I am looking for a steel one...
The heads are LS1 and not LS6. The casting number indicates a '00 date but they have been marked Nov 2004 and the engine came from a 2004 car. It does seem to be a good'un but a lot may be down to Mark Adams and Paul Austin's mapping skills.I remember you saying earlier that you managed to use the original Cerbera flywheel, is that the case?
How light is it compared to the one that came with the LS1? Just in the process of looking at possible LS flywheels for my build and was curious to see what the spec of the AJP is. There are LS aluminium flywheels which weigh around 7kg, though I am looking for a steel one...
The Cerbera flywheel is about 1/3rd the weight of the millstone that came with the engine. It is not a bolt on LS replacement either. I had to do a lot of machining to reuse it. The disadvantage for you is that making it work with an LS bellhousing would be an interesting challenge - especially lining up the starter motor and the clutch slave mechanism. I do think that the Cerbie flywheel contributes to the engines crisp response. I did look at smaller flywheels but found a lot needed special bellhousing and starters. The starters were often turned round 180 deg as well which compromised space of which there was very little indeed.
Sounds good Steve, I bet with the LS torque curve you could give even the very best AJP a hard time on the drag strip (or the road)The more LS conversions the better, we need a few spare AJP engines around.
Did a lot of work on the induction for the LS Manaro in the GT championship last year, they did very well with a cammed but otherwise bog standard engine, peak figures were only half of the story.
Tim
Did a lot of work on the induction for the LS Manaro in the GT championship last year, they did very well with a cammed but otherwise bog standard engine, peak figures were only half of the story.
Tim
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