I'm building a stroker!
Discussion
Well, RapidGB are on my behalf to be more accurate!
Shopping list is agreed:
1- 6.3 ltr stroker kit from Lunati (height comp, inc steel crank, steel rods with ARP bolts, forged pistons)
2- Balanced crank
3- ETP Street Fighter Heads (with all valves and springs)
4- COMP cam
5- SLP ported and updated oil pump
6- Full ARP head and main bearing stud upgrade
7- 90mm etc throttle body
8- Difilippo 1.58 inch headers + cats mated to existing Wortec cat-back
9- RapidGB fuel system (mounted in/under boot with Bosch motor sport pump and new injectors)
10- Magnusson MP122 supercharger
11- Cometic head gaskets
12- LS7 clutch
13- Harrop diff cover
14- Remap
Should be good for 600 rwhp. I decided against the TVS blower as it worked out too expensive. From what I've learned, my existing 122 Maggie will be up to the job of powering my new 6.3 litre beast!
I cannot wait!
Shopping list is agreed:
1- 6.3 ltr stroker kit from Lunati (height comp, inc steel crank, steel rods with ARP bolts, forged pistons)
2- Balanced crank
3- ETP Street Fighter Heads (with all valves and springs)
4- COMP cam
5- SLP ported and updated oil pump
6- Full ARP head and main bearing stud upgrade
7- 90mm etc throttle body
8- Difilippo 1.58 inch headers + cats mated to existing Wortec cat-back
9- RapidGB fuel system (mounted in/under boot with Bosch motor sport pump and new injectors)
10- Magnusson MP122 supercharger
11- Cometic head gaskets
12- LS7 clutch
13- Harrop diff cover
14- Remap
Should be good for 600 rwhp. I decided against the TVS blower as it worked out too expensive. From what I've learned, my existing 122 Maggie will be up to the job of powering my new 6.3 litre beast!
I cannot wait!
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 12th July 16:46
Rotating assembly's are around $2000 (crank, rods, pistons, rings)
Heads $2400 (fully assembled)
Cam $400
Assorted parts, gaskets etc
Then you will want quite a bit of labour and machining. Maybe speak to some of the guys mentioned recently in the engine threads about the work and assembly.
Or you can buy a built shortblock (around $4000) and sell your own one off.
You will still need the heads and cam. Reuse yours or replace (best idea)
Have a look at webber racing and the sdpc site. Like Stevie says Id be tempted with a new shortblock rather than messing around with the block thats in there. By the time you add UK labour and machining on you might as well pay $600-$700 US for a new block.
If you just want a cheap 383 and keep everything else stock, then its just the rotating assembley, machining and labour. If you are luck just a bore hone. pistons are probably 0.005" oversize
Half a litre more displacement will be maybe 10% more power? Not really worth it unless you do heads and cam as well. Then you should be looking at maybe 30% more. Slightly past vxr500 levels IMO.
Anyway bottom line, speak to the guys who do the work to get some costings and then take a call. Im getting my engine done in the US for better or worse. A bit slow so far, but things are progressing. But I was fussy on what parts I wanted. I didnt want to go down the cathedral heads path any more.. Legacy you see
Heads $2400 (fully assembled)
Cam $400
Assorted parts, gaskets etc
Then you will want quite a bit of labour and machining. Maybe speak to some of the guys mentioned recently in the engine threads about the work and assembly.
Or you can buy a built shortblock (around $4000) and sell your own one off.
You will still need the heads and cam. Reuse yours or replace (best idea)
Have a look at webber racing and the sdpc site. Like Stevie says Id be tempted with a new shortblock rather than messing around with the block thats in there. By the time you add UK labour and machining on you might as well pay $600-$700 US for a new block.
If you just want a cheap 383 and keep everything else stock, then its just the rotating assembley, machining and labour. If you are luck just a bore hone. pistons are probably 0.005" oversize
Half a litre more displacement will be maybe 10% more power? Not really worth it unless you do heads and cam as well. Then you should be looking at maybe 30% more. Slightly past vxr500 levels IMO.
Anyway bottom line, speak to the guys who do the work to get some costings and then take a call. Im getting my engine done in the US for better or worse. A bit slow so far, but things are progressing. But I was fussy on what parts I wanted. I didnt want to go down the cathedral heads path any more.. Legacy you see
Agreed....I'd buy a shortblock from the US from a quality vendor like Weber etc, before I'd even consider letting any UK source start machining work.
I went down that road, and whilst the work was done well.....ultimately price was not worth it compared to the bargains from the US.
Buying a rotating assembly sounds cheaper initially.....but in reality, it isnt IMO.
Purchase the assembly, hone the bore, re-build, new bearings etc etc etc....that price soon adds up.
Even if you dont sell your old short motor...always handy to have a spare, just in case tuning doesnt go according to plan.....
If your base is a 5.7, then cheapest "big" kit is a 383, as you can re-use all the existing parts around the engine. If its a 6.0 base, then I'd just go to a 402.
I went down that road, and whilst the work was done well.....ultimately price was not worth it compared to the bargains from the US.
Buying a rotating assembly sounds cheaper initially.....but in reality, it isnt IMO.
Purchase the assembly, hone the bore, re-build, new bearings etc etc etc....that price soon adds up.
Even if you dont sell your old short motor...always handy to have a spare, just in case tuning doesnt go according to plan.....
If your base is a 5.7, then cheapest "big" kit is a 383, as you can re-use all the existing parts around the engine. If its a 6.0 base, then I'd just go to a 402.
I wouldn't want to say what I paid because I did some haggling but I am very happy. What Rich doesn't mention is the cost of VAT, carriage and import taxes which adds an awful lot to the initial $ price. Also, my throttle body is coming from OZ while the rest (I think) is coming from the U.S. Mark also gets some things cheaper than you or I will so my advice is speak to him. He's just gone through the pain of pricing this lot up for me so it should be quite straight forward. He's built 3 other identical engines for other people and each one produced a healthy 650hp which I'd be more than happy with.
We looked at the alternative of a fully built engine from OZ but it worked out a lot more expensive and I'd have to sell my old engine.
BTW, the Lunati kit worked out cheaper than buying everything seperately, the crank effectively came for free. the whole lot will be balanced and the block will be honed. I'll lose the car for a few weeks but it will be worth the wait.
We looked at the alternative of a fully built engine from OZ but it worked out a lot more expensive and I'd have to sell my old engine.
BTW, the Lunati kit worked out cheaper than buying everything seperately, the crank effectively came for free. the whole lot will be balanced and the block will be honed. I'll lose the car for a few weeks but it will be worth the wait.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 13th July 12:02
Some would say you could push to a 4.1 stroke in a 5.7 for a 392. But you would need to be very careful and make sure the person building knew all about piston design etc as there wont be much support for the rings etc at that stroke.
But if you do go down the new engine line, then you could get an Iron 408 engine based on the LS1 its about 40kb heavier, but stronger etc. Or change to gen4 engine and get anything up to a 438 cube
There is almost too much choice!
But if you do go down the new engine line, then you could get an Iron 408 engine based on the LS1 its about 40kb heavier, but stronger etc. Or change to gen4 engine and get anything up to a 438 cube
There is almost too much choice!
Edited by ringram on Sunday 13th July 12:00
jayrockwell said:
Just for my info but does anyone know what this type of setup would crank out (approx) naturally aspirated?
We built two normally aspirated street 383's last year, using slighly different heads (one had CNC ported heads & an LS2 intake, the other had traditional flow bench ported heads & a Fast intake. Apart from that, they were both the same. The CNC head engine did 530bhp, and the pro-ported engine did 570.Hope this gives some idea.
It'd be interesting to see what emissions various cars have to meet, and how they are managing.
Im a little luckier than most, in that I only have to do less than 4.5% and sub 1200ppm HCC
Those pesky old cars
That said, at MOT I got mine down to about 2.5% and 800 ppm HCC without too much difficulty, which was surprising given the cam etc.
I reckon I could throw a couple of CAT's on if I was daft, and could get it down much further.
Motec is definately a money no object way to go about it !!!!
Im a little luckier than most, in that I only have to do less than 4.5% and sub 1200ppm HCC
Those pesky old cars
That said, at MOT I got mine down to about 2.5% and 800 ppm HCC without too much difficulty, which was surprising given the cam etc.
I reckon I could throw a couple of CAT's on if I was daft, and could get it down much further.
Motec is definately a money no object way to go about it !!!!
In terms of dyno time and overall cost of come builds, the cost of a Motec as part of the package and be offset to a degree.
Ive used Motec on a few cars, and TBH havent found anything that makes it worth the money over some cheaper ecu's, like my own DTA.
And I'd be sure the same would apply for maybe 90% of builds.
I find my DTA a lot easier to use, and given the features...its probably about 1/3 the cost of an equivalent Motec, perhaps less !!!!
The only good features with the Motec that I miss, are the ability to trigger each and very output for diagnostic purposes. Although fortunately the only car Ive actually needed to do that...oddly...was one with a Motec when we had a faulty injector !!
Its overpriced to start with, and even more so when lots of the useful features are cost options.
Ive used Motec on a few cars, and TBH havent found anything that makes it worth the money over some cheaper ecu's, like my own DTA.
And I'd be sure the same would apply for maybe 90% of builds.
I find my DTA a lot easier to use, and given the features...its probably about 1/3 the cost of an equivalent Motec, perhaps less !!!!
The only good features with the Motec that I miss, are the ability to trigger each and very output for diagnostic purposes. Although fortunately the only car Ive actually needed to do that...oddly...was one with a Motec when we had a faulty injector !!
Its overpriced to start with, and even more so when lots of the useful features are cost options.
Plus stock GM OEM controllers have excellent features for idle control using IAC and ETC, no point reinventing the wheel unless you need to.
On an LSx engine with street use I think you would be hard pressed to beat it. They can handle TPS, Speed Density and MAF based fueling and 3 Bar boost as well as Nitrous control, lean cruise, plus handle auto trans control too.
Maybe on a kit car or other specialised application the Motec is good. But a bit overkill for our requirements IMO.
On an LSx engine with street use I think you would be hard pressed to beat it. They can handle TPS, Speed Density and MAF based fueling and 3 Bar boost as well as Nitrous control, lean cruise, plus handle auto trans control too.
Maybe on a kit car or other specialised application the Motec is good. But a bit overkill for our requirements IMO.
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