Top Gear Thread
Discussion
C'mon guys, the Top Gear thread is getting ridiculous now.
Could someone have the guts to put it out of its misery, and police two threads for the next episode. Its really becoming pointless coming on PH to chat about TG when the thread gets poisoned by people who continually hate it.
I'm all for free speech and that, but this is just thread vandalism.
Could someone have the guts to put it out of its misery, and police two threads for the next episode. Its really becoming pointless coming on PH to chat about TG when the thread gets poisoned by people who continually hate it.
I'm all for free speech and that, but this is just thread vandalism.
Unfortunately if a thread turns for the worse and it is general opionion then we will let it go as everyone deserves to be heard, BUT... If you feel that there are certain people with an agenda and constantly not adding to the thread anything constructively then please report them to the mods and we will look at it and possibly take the view to ban them from participating in the thread.
Think you are missing my point a little bit.
Every weekly episode thread gets vandalised by people who don't like TG. They never will like TG. They don't want to like TG. They don't even like JC. The only reason they go into the thread is because thats the only place that they will get heard.
I would love to discuss a bit more of the episode with other PHers - but what's the point? Whatever we say gets drowned out by all the naysayers. I liked the Terrorist for instance, but whats the point in talking about it if people are posting essays on "Why TG is crap" messages and the rest of PH is tearing away at it.
Its not even an isolated event any more - its every single week.
Why can't we just have two threads and get the mods to actually police it a bit for once? Just as a test maybe. All the people who hate TG can back slap each other in their own thread, and the people who like TG in general can discuss the good and bad points of the episode.
I don't think I'm alone either. Didn't someone last week or the week before start a thread ready to hate TG before it had even been aired - that should be an indication of how predictable PH has become!
Every weekly episode thread gets vandalised by people who don't like TG. They never will like TG. They don't want to like TG. They don't even like JC. The only reason they go into the thread is because thats the only place that they will get heard.
I would love to discuss a bit more of the episode with other PHers - but what's the point? Whatever we say gets drowned out by all the naysayers. I liked the Terrorist for instance, but whats the point in talking about it if people are posting essays on "Why TG is crap" messages and the rest of PH is tearing away at it.
Its not even an isolated event any more - its every single week.
Why can't we just have two threads and get the mods to actually police it a bit for once? Just as a test maybe. All the people who hate TG can back slap each other in their own thread, and the people who like TG in general can discuss the good and bad points of the episode.
I don't think I'm alone either. Didn't someone last week or the week before start a thread ready to hate TG before it had even been aired - that should be an indication of how predictable PH has become!
Lois22 said:
I can't speak for tinman0, but I don't see it as censorship. It's interesting to know both sides of the argument, but 2 threads would make both easier to read, rather than them being jumbled up. More like a neat filing system rather than throwing all the paperwork out
Well said.Anyway Silent1, its a bit late to complain about censorship since PH has an army of Mods in the first place? Please don't pretend to protect freedom of speech when you PH is already carefully sculpted, or did I miss something when all the CTF people did the mass dummy throwing in March?
All we are asking for is two moderated threads on PH. One for the people who hate TG, and one for people who enjoy TG and want to discuss the episode without being drowned out by all the naysayers who turn up every single week.
tinman0 said:
Think you are missing my point a little bit.
End of a long day at the motor show so apologies if I missed it 
I for one would love to see constructive debate on Top Gear and a discussion on their features throughout the show but I think this is hard to put into practise.
A moderator would need to be on hand during the show and sort out the posts constantly as the thread builds up. As mods are volunteers who give up their free time to make this site what it is (and they do a bloody good job at it too) then one of the mods would have to signup to do this.
Secondly if there was constant removing of TG is crap posts there would be complaints from the posters of "why was my post removed" sent to PH Towers and to the mods, along with complaints about censoring of threads and a bias towards TG.
Thirdly there is a guarantee that some posts would be in a grey area of whether they are bad or not and therefore would be hard to call on removal.
Though I am open on ideas how to do this and a bit of experimenting will have to be done with topic titles and placings in the forums. Some people though will always have an agenda to force their opinion on people and will post away regardless, in those cases the report to mods may be the only action.
RacingPete said:
Though I am open on ideas how to do this and a bit of experimenting will have to be done with topic titles and placings in the forums. Some people though will always have an agenda to force their opinion on people and will post away regardless, in those cases the report to mods may be the only action.
There are always mods on hand from what I can see, so why not task them a little bit more? With rights comes responsibility. Have a small rota where the mods keep an eye on that thread, maybe even pruning it in the morning where its got off topic. And I know PH mods prune threads when prompted.I don't see complaints to PH Towers a problem either - the people who whine to you guys will always whine and most went to CTF in a big huff anyway!
The next TG thread will be the worst because its end of series, so not only will you have the discussion about the episode, it will be a discussion on the series, and the TG haters will be out in force talking over everyone who don't agree with them.
The usual response when serious posters get drowned out is that they just don't bother posting on PH.
Continually dragging out "freedom of speech" when it suits PH doesn't wash either. You are catering for a small minority who will never like TG, whilst, in my opinion, ignoring the wider group who do enjoy TG, and the thread takes a dive in the meantime under the crushing line "freedom of speech".
The way to stop people moaning about being moderated is to make it clear from the start that its a moderated thread about TG. If you hate TG, or mention Fifth Gear, then your post will be deleted including responding posts. You can create the other thread for the whiners and invite them over there.
(And I will put money on the fact that the whiners will not post in their own thread for long because they are deprived of an audience.)
The reason people complain about moderation is that the moderation is not clear - so set the boundaries as the opening post so people know what is expected and what isn't expected.
Please lead from the front for once.
While I agree it is a shame the way the Top Gear threads pan out sometimes, and that perhaps we could get rid of some of the dross within them, I think it will go against the remit of a discussion forum. A pro-TG and an anti-TG thread will not allow discussion for the good and bad. Yes, dross we should get rid of (and report it as you see it) - but I think we should not differentiate 2 threads.
So, keep it as it is but get rid of the crap unconstructive posts in each thread would be my opinion. And it is partly the responsibility of the PH posters who enjoy the TG thread to highlight that "crap" by using the report button.
But, and this is key; I will place money that us removing a post simply because it's not agreeing with the thread's direction will bring calls of censorship and hypocrisy; as well as accusations that TG asked us to do so.
So, keep it as it is but get rid of the crap unconstructive posts in each thread would be my opinion. And it is partly the responsibility of the PH posters who enjoy the TG thread to highlight that "crap" by using the report button.
But, and this is key; I will place money that us removing a post simply because it's not agreeing with the thread's direction will bring calls of censorship and hypocrisy; as well as accusations that TG asked us to do so.
TonyHetherington said:
While I agree it is a shame the way the Top Gear threads pan out sometimes, and that perhaps we could get rid of some of the dross within them, I think it will go against the remit of a discussion forum. A pro-TG and an anti-TG thread will not allow discussion for the good and bad. Yes, dross we should get rid of (and report it as you see it) - but I think we should not differentiate 2 threads.
So, keep it as it is but get rid of the crap unconstructive posts in each thread would be my opinion. And it is partly the responsibility of the PH posters who enjoy the TG thread to highlight that "crap" by using the report button.
But, and this is key; I will place money that us removing a post simply because it's not agreeing with the thread's direction will bring calls of censorship and hypocrisy; as well as accusations that TG asked us to do so.
Sorry to keep coming back. I don't mean to whine myself, but this is an interesting discussion. (For me at least).So, keep it as it is but get rid of the crap unconstructive posts in each thread would be my opinion. And it is partly the responsibility of the PH posters who enjoy the TG thread to highlight that "crap" by using the report button.
But, and this is key; I will place money that us removing a post simply because it's not agreeing with the thread's direction will bring calls of censorship and hypocrisy; as well as accusations that TG asked us to do so.
The problem with the report button is that its kinda like squealing.
You press it, and you can hear the moderators moan "oh no, so and so has press the Report button". You are just putting yourself up for ridicule in PH Towers. And then there's the whole crying wolf thing as well.
As for PH getting accused of censorship - what's new? Would have thought you had thicker skin by now
PH has already shown that it will censor threads in an effort to keep thread quality high, so why not on this thread?I'd argue that a thread discussing the fores and againsts (is that a word?) of the major car program is beneficial. It just needs to be kept in check.
Don't worry about pushing the report abuse button - it's not viewed as a bad thing to do. In fact the opposite - some members are keen to do it and it alerts us to things that need attention. There is sometimes irony in the reporter's reasoning which does not get missed (
) but nevertheless it is a very useful tool for us.
Out of curiosity, we tend to push the report button ourselves about 15times a day to highlight things.
Don't worry about pushing the report abuse button - it's not viewed as a bad thing to do. In fact the opposite - some members are keen to do it and it alerts us to things that need attention. There is sometimes irony in the reporter's reasoning which does not get missed (
) but nevertheless it is a very useful tool for us.Out of curiosity, we tend to push the report button ourselves about 15times a day to highlight things.
TonyHetherington said:
I'd argue that a thread discussing the fores and againsts (is that a word?) of the major car program is beneficial. It just needs to be kept in check.
Ah hang. Crossed wire alert.I have nothing against criticism. What I am talking about are the continual posters who come on the thread and say:
"TG is crap"
"TG isn't like what it used to be"
"Fifth Gear is so much better"
"I wish they would give us facts about the cars" (despite getting all those facts in the dialogue anyway)
"I stopped watching TG 16 years ago when person X said something nasty about my favourite car"
"What does JC know about cars anyway?"
"I hate JC" (and therefore TG)
"I hate Hammond" {and therefore TG)
"I hate May" (and therefore life)
"Its like watching Last of the Summer Wine but with cars" (which exactly how the producers describe it anyway)
And so on.
Not the debate at the moment about the V8 soundtrack of the Terrorist, which in itself is quite funny. Or whether you disagree with something JC said or didn't say, and so forth. These are perfectly valid posts, its just the following the TG threads have from the TG haters.
The bit I and I imagine a lot of PHers have a problem with is the continual criticism of the programme from people who simply don't like it in the first place.
tinman0 said:
Sorry to keep coming back. I don't mean to whine myself, but this is an interesting discussion. (For me at least)
Interesting to read other peoples opinions on the site, as always I, and probably speaking for all of the moderators, have never thought of anyone reporting a post as squealing and being seen as a grass for reporting them, we take every report as serious as each other. Though interesting you think like that, as it never had crossed my mind that people could think that way to the report mechanism.
I think the great benefit of PH is that we all want the site to be a productive forum: moderators; staff and members a-like and thus all the functions in place are to keep the site running well.
It is also interesting that you think the site is censored. The only removal of posts are ones that break the terms and conditions, and rules of posting: Blantant advertising, offensive material, legal implications etc.
We never censor the opinions of people on this site if they are within the posting rules regardless of the subject they are talking about. This is the case for anything we do, commercial deals, news articles, comments on PH itself. I could find countless articles dissing my technical team, or the way the site is run.. but we let them all run as the freedom of posts on the forum is how it should run.
With the TG posts it is very hard to prune it down for the above reason, and if we started a precedence with one thread it could spread to others and I dont think PH needs to go down that path. Though I still think a solution which doesn't involve censorship can be found to this problem.
tinman0 said:
Ah hang. Crossed wire alert.
Ah sorry - I think we were actually agreeing with one another then I agree that the "TG is crap" is not constructive, but the comments against are valid when done right (it's what makes discussion forums so, urmmm, discussive
) 
no, discussive is NOT a word!
My 2p worth.
1. Whats the point of a forum if not to discuss the pro's & cons? A forum of all pro TG peeps slapping each other on the back for agreeing with them would surely run out of steam pretty damn quick.
2. Where do you draw the line? "I liked the opening piece on last nights TG (positive comment) but again the rest of the program Was was utter crap!!! (negative comment)" Would this constitute a negative comment overall and have to be deleted?
3. Applying this logic - you'd surely have to open up a Pro Global Warming/Anti Global Warming thread and the same for the all of the rest of the contentious issues discussed on PH.
All IMHO
1. Whats the point of a forum if not to discuss the pro's & cons? A forum of all pro TG peeps slapping each other on the back for agreeing with them would surely run out of steam pretty damn quick.
2. Where do you draw the line? "I liked the opening piece on last nights TG (positive comment) but again the rest of the program Was was utter crap!!! (negative comment)" Would this constitute a negative comment overall and have to be deleted?
3. Applying this logic - you'd surely have to open up a Pro Global Warming/Anti Global Warming thread and the same for the all of the rest of the contentious issues discussed on PH.
All IMHO
RacingPete said:
With the TG posts it is very hard to prune it down for the above reason, and if we started a precedence with one thread it could spread to others and I dont think PH needs to go down that path. Though I still think a solution which doesn't involve censorship can be found to this problem.
Why do you think it would set a precedence?Everyone always thinks these things set precedence one way or another. It doesn't as the two words to describe this are exceptional and extraordinary.
The TG thread is repeatedly vandalised week in week out by people who hate it. We just want a situation where people who enjoy TG can actually discuss it without having to spend post after post defending the choice to watch and largely enjoy TG on tv.
And so what if PH made a stand on this?
PH made a stand on all the crap innuendo stuff, like Nuke From Orbit, OXO tower, and the rest so I could easily argue that PH has already set a precedence in stopping threads being sabotaged. I got jumped on near the end for mentioning nuke-f-o by a moderator, despite the wally being unable to see the irony that it was posed in.
I think PH has also done something unique over the years, largely from its background in that it is a quality forum. It is not just a huge forum, but a quality forum at that. Watch the poor sod who txt spks during a post getting torn to shreds. Posters with bad grammar are taken out back and shot, and the remains put on show.
PHers expect a certain quality from threads, so having a TG thread which isn't torn apart week in or week by crap posts isn't exactly an alien concept to PH Towers either.
tinman0 said:
The TG thread is repeatedly vandalised week in week out by people who hate it. We just want a situation where people who enjoy TG can actually discuss it without having to spend post after post defending the choice to watch and largely enjoy TG on tv.
Conversely, those who hate TG could see those that love it as vandalising the thread by defending it? Both are opinions, neither are right or wrong and both can be express on the forum.The easiest way to deal with the posts that go against the grain, is surely simply to ignore them? It's usually a surefire way to make them fizzle out as there's no fun in prodding the hive if no bees come out.
If the thread was moderated to prune out the 'I hate TG etc. posts' - PH would be accused of taking sides or unfairly moderating (no change there
).I'm not sure how this one can be resolved without chucking the baby out with the bathwater?
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