Advice on MTB Disk brakes please

[johnnywb]

I currently have hydraulic Promax discs front and rear on my bike. They were on it when i bought it second hand, but are a brand i've never heard of and seem impossible to get spares for. I want to change them over to something more mainstream (and something that works...).

On my old DH bikes, i always ran Hope and at the time, they were the respected daddy of the hydraulic disc brake world. I'd switch to them, but this will involve a wheel rebuild with Hope hubs and a lot of wedge.

So, ideally, i'd like to not have to rebuild my wheels (currently Mavic disc rims, with Shimano hubs).

Avid Juicy's look reasonable value at the moment, but are they compatible with the shimano hubs and are they any good?

Also happy to hear other suggestions.

Ta

[mat205125]

Your hubs may be shimano, but can you confirm that they are definitley not standard 6 bolt mount hubs.

[neil_bolton]

mat205125 said:

Your hubs may be shimano, but can you confirm that they are definitley not standard 6 bolt mount hubs.

Indeed - you either have 6 bolt pattern hubs or Shimano Splined hubs, the former giving you almost unlimited choice of brakes, the latter limiting you to the very good Shimano brakes.

I run exclusively Shimano and think they are ace - all the models work as well as eachother, only the quality of the actual brake itself really splits the models themselves.

As far as brakes go, I've heard many good things about Avids, but also consider Formula brakes - the Oro's are pretty good too.

To be honest, brakes are sometimes personal preference, hence me nailing my colours to the mast with anything Shimano...

[GHW]

I've got juicy 5s on my Orange, which has Shimano hubs on it. Compared to the Magura Julies on my previous bike, they're flipping awesome. Possibly not as much 'feel' to them as other brakes, but I am using sintered pads..

[johnnywb]

They're 6 bolt hubs, not splined.

Is this now a universal fit for discs? Back when i was doing DH (about 10 years ago ish), if you wanted Hope discs, you had to have Hope hubs etc.

It sounds like the Avid's would fit though.

[neil_bolton]

johnnywb said:

They're 6 bolt hubs, not splined.

Is this now a universal fit for discs? Back when i was doing DH (about 10 years ago ish), if you wanted Hope discs, you had to have Hope hubs etc.

It sounds like the Avid's would fit though.

6 Bolt is pretty much standard these days.

Good thing with going for popular brakes is that you know you'll always be able to get pads.

Nothing more annoying than getting something very trick and super, when you're stuck in the Alps with worn out pads and none of the surrender monkeys sell any pads for them...

[johnnywb]

neil_bolton said:

johnnywb said:

They're 6 bolt hubs, not splined.

Is this now a universal fit for discs? Back when i was doing DH (about 10 years ago ish), if you wanted Hope discs, you had to have Hope hubs etc.

It sounds like the Avid's would fit though.

6 Bolt is pretty much standard these days.

Good thing with going for popular brakes is that you know you'll always be able to get pads.

Nothing more annoying than getting something very trick and super, when you're stuck in the Alps with worn out pads and none of the surrender monkeys sell any pads for them...

Indeed, it was one of the negatives when i bought this bike, but i've lived with it. However, now they're fooked and i can't get pads anywhere. They're also rubbish.

Good to hear that 6 bolt is standard now, cuts the cost down a lot.

[mk1fan]

neil_bolton said:

Indeed - you either have 6 bolt pattern hubs or Shimano Splined hubs, the former giving you almost unlimited choice of brakes, the latter limiting you to the very good Shimano brakes.

Being picky this only limits you to using Shimano rotors the calipers & levers can be any brand. You can also get adaptors to switch between both Standards. Although in the context of the OP buying a complete set of new brakes then it's right.

It's hard to buy a bad set of brakes nowadays. Avid Juicy Fives won the mini test in this months (August) MBR again. But they do have some drawbacks. The new Avid ElixR brakes have addressed some of these but not all. What brakes do your mates use?

Personally, I like Avid's. I got both hydraulic and mechanical sets and I've never had issue with them. Friends of mine run others - Shimano, Hope, Formula - all without major issue.

[neil_bolton]

mk1fan said:

neil_bolton said:

Indeed - you either have 6 bolt pattern hubs or Shimano Splined hubs, the former giving you almost unlimited choice of brakes, the latter limiting you to the very good Shimano brakes.

Being picky this only limits you to using Shimano rotors the calipers & levers can be any brand. You can also get adaptors to switch between both Standards. Although in the context of the OP buying a complete set of new brakes then it's right.

Fair point

OP - if you do this, make sure the brakes work with the 160/180/203mm rotors (although he has 6 bolt rotors so I don't know why I bothered typing this)

Confuses the buggery out of people when I use Hope rotors with Shimano brakes

[pawsmcgraw]

I never knew until the other day when i tried, you can't put Avid brakes on Shimano floating discs.Seems obvious now though

[neil_bolton]

pawsmcgraw said:

I never knew until the other day when i tried, you can't put Avid brakes on Shimano floating discs.Seems obvious now though

Eh? Since when have Shimano discs been floating?

[snotrag]

Shimano disc brakes all the way, just pick te model that mathes your budget.

New XTs with Servo Wave levers are pretty much the nicest brakes available IMO.

[pawsmcgraw]

neil_bolton said:

pawsmcgraw said:

I never knew until the other day when i tried, you can't put Avid brakes on Shimano floating discs.Seems obvious now though

Eh? Since when have Shimano discs been floating?

As you know XTR rotors are not all one piece.The spider in the middle is alloy, secured by rivets.This done to stop warping from heat transfer from brake surface.I'm open to correction, but i thought this was a floating rotor?
The reason they don't fit is because the Avid pads tab hits the alloy spider of the XTR rotor on the inside.

[neil_bolton]

pawsmcgraw said:

neil_bolton said:

pawsmcgraw said:

I never knew until the other day when i tried, you can't put Avid brakes on Shimano floating discs.Seems obvious now though

Eh? Since when have Shimano discs been floating?

As you know XTR rotors are not all one piece.The spider in the middle is alloy, secured by rivets.This done to stop warping from heat transfer from brake surface.I'm open to correction, but i thought this was a floating rotor?
The reason they don't fit is because the Avid pads tab hits the alloy spider of the XTR rotor on the inside.

I'll agree on the point about the discs not being one piece, but the discs are interchangable between all the models, and certainly I've never heard or seen any mention of them being floating.

Floating, as far as I was always led to believe, was to allow the disc to move in unison with any non-centralness (if thats a word) of the pads, or the caliper action.

Additionally I think it allows for a lighter design as the spider can be made out of a lighter material.


I'm running the Hope non floating discs with my XTR calipers and I've no issues - I think the issue of certain discs not fitting is exactly that - different makes and models not quite fitting - certainly the Hope discs don't like my Saint calipers so much and they work with either the solid discs or the XTR discs.

I'll check with my contact within Shimano, and confirm

[pdV6]

If the rotor can move at all in relation to the spider (even a little bit) then it's a "floating" disc.

In a motorbike application, this is usually to prevent warping but I can imagine that Shimano might go down this route for MTB discs for any number of reasons (heat transfer, weight, one rotor for splined/6-bolt applications etc)

[PomBstard]

I've found XT rotors to work the best with both the Avid J7s and the Hayes 9 I've got on my bikes - they just seem to resist warping better. The Avid rotors lasted only a few months, and the Hayes rotors were crap from the off. Not tried XTR or anything too swish, though.

[pdV6]

pawsmcgraw said:

The reason they don't fit is because the Avid pads tab hits the alloy spider of the XTR rotor on the inside.

Yeah - with the OE Avid pads, one of the pads has a tab at an angle, which puts it closer to the rotor. I can imagine that hitting the Shimano spider quite easily. Some after-market Avid-compatible pads have straight tabs, presumably for this reason (if not just ease of manufacture).

Edited by pdV6 on Thursday 24th July 11:09

[neil_bolton]

pdV6 said:

If the rotor can move at all in relation to the spider (even a little bit) then it's a "floating" disc.

In a motorbike application, this is usually to prevent warping but I can imagine that Shimano might go down this route for MTB discs for any number of reasons (heat transfer, weight, one rotor for splined/6-bolt applications etc)

Thats fair enough, but I don't think XTR are floating discs. Yes, they are riveted, but I don't think they are floating.

I may be wrong however, but I'm awaiting my answer back from Shimano

[pawsmcgraw]

I actually cut the tab off the inner pad right to the base with wire cutters so it misses the xtr spider.I've found the combo works real well,hence why i go to this trouble.
the
cool pic of pads too

[pawsmcgraw]

That pic looks like a steampunk sandwich toaster!

Edited by pawsmcgraw on Thursday 24th July 11:25