996 and Boxster engine problems - cost effective solutions
Discussion
Engine Failed – don't panic or believe everything you are told. Over half the engines we receive have been "condemned" for just minor faults and can be rebuilt easily and successfully or even be repaired without removal (if diagnosed before removal/stripping). Even more serious failures are still repairable while weak spots can be improved.
996 owners - cylinder bores gradually distort oval until they either crack or pistons seize. We reduce ovality and secure the top deck and/or replace the cracked/ seized liner. For all other models we stock replacement liners to repair cylinder damage.
Crankshaft damage will soon no longer be a costly problem requiring a new crank because we can both re-grind and re-harden the crankshafts and supply shells (undergoing trials).
We try to stock rebuilt full engines and short blocks (for customers or traders to remove, re-fit and complete), offering options to re-use cylinder heads or remove, de-coke and regrind valves and fit new stem seals etc (as with all our fully rebuilt engines).
Look out for smoke (other than on start up), oil and coolant mixing or especially ticking noises (that may be innocent or signs of impending failure). Never continuing driving (that can greatly increase damage and repair costs) so early checking is essential.
Typical prices depend on the failure and condition of existing parts (and come from a comprehensive menu system) but start from as little £1700 + VAT (for a supply only exchange bottom end) much less on our free labour Lifetime Maintenance Plan.
If you suspect any engine problem make sure it is checked by someone who can and does offer all available solutions (before it is too late) and who does not have a vested interest in any one solution, is not defending potential warranty claims (that rarely pay out) or litigation (that usually costs more than it is worth) and knows how to accurately diagnose all likely faults.
Any questions? Please post on here and I will try and respond promptly.
Hartech Automotive
www.hartech.org
[mail]auto@hartech.org[mail]
Baz (Hartech) 01204 302809
996 owners - cylinder bores gradually distort oval until they either crack or pistons seize. We reduce ovality and secure the top deck and/or replace the cracked/ seized liner. For all other models we stock replacement liners to repair cylinder damage.
Crankshaft damage will soon no longer be a costly problem requiring a new crank because we can both re-grind and re-harden the crankshafts and supply shells (undergoing trials).
We try to stock rebuilt full engines and short blocks (for customers or traders to remove, re-fit and complete), offering options to re-use cylinder heads or remove, de-coke and regrind valves and fit new stem seals etc (as with all our fully rebuilt engines).
Look out for smoke (other than on start up), oil and coolant mixing or especially ticking noises (that may be innocent or signs of impending failure). Never continuing driving (that can greatly increase damage and repair costs) so early checking is essential.
Typical prices depend on the failure and condition of existing parts (and come from a comprehensive menu system) but start from as little £1700 + VAT (for a supply only exchange bottom end) much less on our free labour Lifetime Maintenance Plan.
If you suspect any engine problem make sure it is checked by someone who can and does offer all available solutions (before it is too late) and who does not have a vested interest in any one solution, is not defending potential warranty claims (that rarely pay out) or litigation (that usually costs more than it is worth) and knows how to accurately diagnose all likely faults.
Any questions? Please post on here and I will try and respond promptly.
Hartech Automotive
www.hartech.org
[mail]auto@hartech.org[mail]
Baz (Hartech) 01204 302809
Shhh! you'll cause 996 prices to firm up with info like that and I'm still shopping for one!
Seriously though, the thought of having to fork out £10k (which is more that 50% of some 996's on autotrader) for a new engine has probably sent many people to other marques but news like this will instill a bit more confidence in buying a 3.4.
Well done
Seriously though, the thought of having to fork out £10k (which is more that 50% of some 996's on autotrader) for a new engine has probably sent many people to other marques but news like this will instill a bit more confidence in buying a 3.4.
Well done
As you may have seen on other postings, not only do we feel that the early Boxster's and 996's are undervalued at the moment - but also that overall they will not be excessively expensive to own and maintain (and are the least expensive model under our Lifetime Maintenance Plan).
The biggest additional cost when a serious problem does occur comes about because the cars are taken somewhere else first and incurr unecessary additional costs, mis-diagnosis, etc.
Often they are stripped completely unneccessarily adding to the cost of eventually getting all the bits to us and then sifting through bits poorly stored, some missing, others damaged in storage or transit - or gone rusty etc. Furthermore - with no opportunity to run the engine before stripping it - we often don't know what originally caused the failure - so may rebuild the engine only to then discover that some auxiliary part wasn't working properly (adding to repair costs).
We have collected cars and engines where owners have paid twice our hourly rate for them to be stripped when only a head is cracked, a oil seperator was faulty (low hundreds to repair) a cam chain has snapped etc - and it would have saved them money and time if we had the car in tact in the first place. As a matter of policy - if we miss-diagnose a problem and therefore strip more than we needed to (which thankfully is extremely rare) we don't charge customers for that element - but others are not so reasonable.
Others strip them down for repair but have no solutions to common problems and can only access new replacement parts - whereas we also have a huge stock of good used and tested or repaired engine parts, available as an option to help lower rebuild costs.
All the older Porsche's deemed to be more reliable will need engine top ends rebuilds at least (and probably full engines eventually) or at least head gaskets, water pumps, etc etc - and many of the Boxsters and 996's have covered well over 100K already with no problems - it is just that fewer are able to fix them and labour rates at Main Agents are now so high that most advise a new engine replacement option - without offering any alternatives.
I am presently driving a 996 around as a mobile engine test bed and what a great drive it is, fast, comfortable, flexible, much more modern than any predecessors, eye catching (lots of admiring glances and even photos being taken on mobile phones etc).
By specialising in engine solutions (and doing more and more all the time) we are able to streamline rebuilding, increase special tooling and of course familiarity and generate the most experience of them and their problems and know where to invest in solutions - than most conventional Porsche businesses.
The end result makes the ownership of one of these great cars reasonably affordable (even if a very very rare serious problem occurs) and should eventually result in minimal depreciation (well for many how much further is there to go?).
Baz
The biggest additional cost when a serious problem does occur comes about because the cars are taken somewhere else first and incurr unecessary additional costs, mis-diagnosis, etc.
Often they are stripped completely unneccessarily adding to the cost of eventually getting all the bits to us and then sifting through bits poorly stored, some missing, others damaged in storage or transit - or gone rusty etc. Furthermore - with no opportunity to run the engine before stripping it - we often don't know what originally caused the failure - so may rebuild the engine only to then discover that some auxiliary part wasn't working properly (adding to repair costs).
We have collected cars and engines where owners have paid twice our hourly rate for them to be stripped when only a head is cracked, a oil seperator was faulty (low hundreds to repair) a cam chain has snapped etc - and it would have saved them money and time if we had the car in tact in the first place. As a matter of policy - if we miss-diagnose a problem and therefore strip more than we needed to (which thankfully is extremely rare) we don't charge customers for that element - but others are not so reasonable.
Others strip them down for repair but have no solutions to common problems and can only access new replacement parts - whereas we also have a huge stock of good used and tested or repaired engine parts, available as an option to help lower rebuild costs.
All the older Porsche's deemed to be more reliable will need engine top ends rebuilds at least (and probably full engines eventually) or at least head gaskets, water pumps, etc etc - and many of the Boxsters and 996's have covered well over 100K already with no problems - it is just that fewer are able to fix them and labour rates at Main Agents are now so high that most advise a new engine replacement option - without offering any alternatives.
I am presently driving a 996 around as a mobile engine test bed and what a great drive it is, fast, comfortable, flexible, much more modern than any predecessors, eye catching (lots of admiring glances and even photos being taken on mobile phones etc).
By specialising in engine solutions (and doing more and more all the time) we are able to streamline rebuilding, increase special tooling and of course familiarity and generate the most experience of them and their problems and know where to invest in solutions - than most conventional Porsche businesses.
The end result makes the ownership of one of these great cars reasonably affordable (even if a very very rare serious problem occurs) and should eventually result in minimal depreciation (well for many how much further is there to go?).
Baz
Ballcock said:
Paracetamol said:
Also offer an emergency service (of say £250) for pick up to Bolton
Re- emergency service , if you've the AA+ cover and you suffer a breakdown, they'll ferry your car to the Tech of your choice within mainland Britain ... Coming from the South myself - I also imagined Bolton to be gruesome but actually as a result of the wealth of the cotton mills at the time of the industrial revolution - Bolton has wide roads, parks, museums, a great shopping centre, excellent schools etc and is a very nice place to live and work.
I also don't think we could run this operation further south at the same cost base - so that could result in problems between businesses. However I am still amazed that no one else down south has the confidence in their business, the skill of their staff, or the way they handle the whole process to offer a similar scheme - all be it at a higher cost - as I still think it would be worthwhile.
Perhaps we should take someone over/buy someone out - and try one day?
Baz
I also don't think we could run this operation further south at the same cost base - so that could result in problems between businesses. However I am still amazed that no one else down south has the confidence in their business, the skill of their staff, or the way they handle the whole process to offer a similar scheme - all be it at a higher cost - as I still think it would be worthwhile.
Perhaps we should take someone over/buy someone out - and try one day?
Baz
hartech said:
Coming from the South myself - I also imagined Bolton to be gruesome but actually as a result of the wealth of the cotton mills at the time of the industrial revolution - Bolton has wide roads, parks, museums, a great shopping centre, excellent schools etc and is a very nice place to live and work.
I also don't think we could run this operation further south at the same cost base - so that could result in problems between businesses. However I am still amazed that no one else down south has the confidence in their business, the skill of their staff, or the way they handle the whole process to offer a similar scheme - all be it at a higher cost - as I still think it would be worthwhile.
Perhaps we should take someone over/buy someone out - and try one day?
Baz
TBH-why bother taking over- with your reputation you should be able to srart afresh..or is it finding staff thats the issue??I also don't think we could run this operation further south at the same cost base - so that could result in problems between businesses. However I am still amazed that no one else down south has the confidence in their business, the skill of their staff, or the way they handle the whole process to offer a similar scheme - all be it at a higher cost - as I still think it would be worthwhile.
Perhaps we should take someone over/buy someone out - and try one day?
Baz
Talking generally - actually it is partly a problem of being a private business with relatively limited hard cash resources or investment potential (and borrowing right now is risky) - partly also due to my age (can I be bothered?) and partly the cost of setting up such an operation (do I want to risk it when everything up here is going so well). Then of course - as you said - there is staffing etc.
Much easier to find an existing operation that is not running effectively but has all the right potential and then gradually change the way they work and their systems to become easier and less expensive to manage - provide better customer satisfaction (and therefore increase their customer retention rate), perhaps benefit from some previous losses (in the books) and therefore basically turn the business around.
There are relatively few independents who have been able to break out of being quite small. Firstly they are not usually started by businessmen but technicians and engineers who rarely appreciate in advance the problems even a successful growing business has with cash flow (even if and sometimes because of - being profitable). When a slump comes they often sruggle not to run out of cash and banks have garages high on the list to forclose overdrafts on prematurely.
Secondly there are sizes whereby even with a small number of staff there are all sorts of legislation they must handle and invest in complying with. This takes time away from the very people who usually actually do all the work - and can reduce profitability and quality as well.
Thirdly - handling a business like ours (so it doesn't become a nightmare) requires a lot of management experience - thought about your terms and conditions - and how to avoid potential problems with customers etc. In this ever more legislative and litigeous society - and with garages generally seen as OK to screw - it can be hard to run in such a way that you can both help, support and satisfy the "good customers" and keep the "bad ones" in check.
All this might be gratefully received by someone who has tried and is struggling with it all (where a business like ours could come in and help) - but anyone who hasn't hit these snags yet - wouldn't appreciate the value of what we might have to offer.
So - overall I think expansion down South will never happen - but if it did - I think it would be in helping ressurect some well intentioned existing business that simply needs more business (and perhaps technical experience) in it's management structure (providing the confidence from finacial institutions to support expansion).
I am suprised that wealthy Porsche enthusiasts have not (to my knowledge) wanted a piece of the action of a Porsche specialist business in return for the excitement and satisfaction of some involvement and of course priority treatment themselves with their own cars. With Porsche having dramatically increased the volume of sales year on year (and now being for the first time financially secure) you would have thought that some bright and successful individuals would have seen the potential for anyone doing a half decent job of supplying services to such a highly skilled growth niche market (especially when property and intellectual assets are often involved) and invested in a return and the additional benefits.
Perhaps when I have properly retired up here (in a few years time) - I will give it some more thought!
Baz
Much easier to find an existing operation that is not running effectively but has all the right potential and then gradually change the way they work and their systems to become easier and less expensive to manage - provide better customer satisfaction (and therefore increase their customer retention rate), perhaps benefit from some previous losses (in the books) and therefore basically turn the business around.
There are relatively few independents who have been able to break out of being quite small. Firstly they are not usually started by businessmen but technicians and engineers who rarely appreciate in advance the problems even a successful growing business has with cash flow (even if and sometimes because of - being profitable). When a slump comes they often sruggle not to run out of cash and banks have garages high on the list to forclose overdrafts on prematurely.
Secondly there are sizes whereby even with a small number of staff there are all sorts of legislation they must handle and invest in complying with. This takes time away from the very people who usually actually do all the work - and can reduce profitability and quality as well.
Thirdly - handling a business like ours (so it doesn't become a nightmare) requires a lot of management experience - thought about your terms and conditions - and how to avoid potential problems with customers etc. In this ever more legislative and litigeous society - and with garages generally seen as OK to screw - it can be hard to run in such a way that you can both help, support and satisfy the "good customers" and keep the "bad ones" in check.
All this might be gratefully received by someone who has tried and is struggling with it all (where a business like ours could come in and help) - but anyone who hasn't hit these snags yet - wouldn't appreciate the value of what we might have to offer.
So - overall I think expansion down South will never happen - but if it did - I think it would be in helping ressurect some well intentioned existing business that simply needs more business (and perhaps technical experience) in it's management structure (providing the confidence from finacial institutions to support expansion).
I am suprised that wealthy Porsche enthusiasts have not (to my knowledge) wanted a piece of the action of a Porsche specialist business in return for the excitement and satisfaction of some involvement and of course priority treatment themselves with their own cars. With Porsche having dramatically increased the volume of sales year on year (and now being for the first time financially secure) you would have thought that some bright and successful individuals would have seen the potential for anyone doing a half decent job of supplying services to such a highly skilled growth niche market (especially when property and intellectual assets are often involved) and invested in a return and the additional benefits.
Perhaps when I have properly retired up here (in a few years time) - I will give it some more thought!
Baz
hartech said:
So - overall I think expansion down South will never happen - but if it did - I think it would be in helping ressurect some well intentioned existing business that simply needs more business (and perhaps technical experience) in it's management structure (providing the confidence from finacial institutions to support expansion).
Any OPCs for sale? 
mikeo996 said:
If my engine blew (God forbid) - I would want to not just have it repaired but upgraded (I don't mean just so it doesn't go again, but so that I would feel that I had got something out of the painful affair) - I know Autobahn do a 3.7 option, are there other alternatives?
Do you mean autofarm? Or is there more than one place doung upgrades?My thoughts are the same. I'd be happier paying say, 1-2k more to get something back with a good power hike. My wince might even become a smile!
IMHO the engine in a std 996 is closer to its design limits than previous 911's, or the 944 range. I think this is basically why a small number fail and similarly we have rebuilt a supercharged version that didn't manage to hold together. I imagine this is why Porsche didn't use it for their more powerful GT and turbocharged versions (whereas they could with the previous models mentioned).
I have no knowledge of how well the Autofarm engines are running and am not implying any criticism whatsoever of the conversion they do - but perhaps should make it clear that for the above reasons - we stick to the original output (no tuning, inlet charging or increased capacities) but modify existing weak spots so our engines should prove stronger/longer lasting than std, but I would not expect that result if extra torque was put through the engine. It may well be that Autofarm improve the things that I would be concerned about - but I think it would be worth checking and considering future warranty cover with such engines - for longevity.
Baz
I have no knowledge of how well the Autofarm engines are running and am not implying any criticism whatsoever of the conversion they do - but perhaps should make it clear that for the above reasons - we stick to the original output (no tuning, inlet charging or increased capacities) but modify existing weak spots so our engines should prove stronger/longer lasting than std, but I would not expect that result if extra torque was put through the engine. It may well be that Autofarm improve the things that I would be concerned about - but I think it would be worth checking and considering future warranty cover with such engines - for longevity.
Baz
Sorry Miko996, you obviously know more about it all than me and I must be wrong then! I wondered why Porsche didn't use the engine for the more poweful versions (they must have been wrong too) and why I am daily repairing engines with crankshafts that have failed to run under the load without wrecking, Pistons seizing through too much clearance, cracked liners, cracked cylinder heads, failed intermediate shaft bearings, snapped chains - it must be a figment of my imagination I guess - thank goodness we have such experts on board who really do know what they are talking about! Time will tell.
Baz
Baz
Sorry, didn't mean to rattle your cage, but the truth is the Porsche successfully managed to increase the capacity of the engine from 3.4 to 3.8 in the mainstream models without any increased reliability issues, so why wouldn't it possible? Mines a 3.4, I would be interested in an upgrade that's all. None of the issues you're dealing with are related to capacity are they?
mikeo996 said:
Sorry, didn't mean to rattle your cage, but the truth is the Porsche successfully managed to increase the capacity of the engine from 3.4 to 3.8 in the mainstream models without any increased reliability issues, so why wouldn't it possible? Mines a 3.4, I would be interested in an upgrade that's all. None of the issues you're dealing with are related to capacity are they?
I'd imagine that Porsche are using a different casting for the block. There'll be more to it than just a simple bore out/stroke increase.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff