Yet even more NIP stuff.......groan!
Discussion
OK guys here's the situation:
38 in a 30 on 12.05.03
1. Got NIP, sent back and asked for photos.
2. Got unsigned NIP returned and photos.
3. Sent unsigned NIP back.
4. Got letter back and unsigned NIP on 14.08.03 saying:
"Dear Mr.XXXXXX,
The form enclosed does not bear the signature of the driver admitting their responsibility. Would you complete one of the Parts 1 to 4 as appropriate.
Thank you.
Your sincerely,
Xxxxxxxx"
Before I had time to do anything I got another letter on 01.09.03
"Dear Mr.XXXXXX,
You have recently been sent a Notice Of Intended Prosecution, in accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offences Act 1988. Under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 you were required to identify the last known Owner/Keeper/Hirer/Driver of the vehicle on the date in question.
I note from my records that I do not appear to have received a response within the 28 day period. In these circumstances I enclose a duplicate of the Notice. I would be grateful to receive your response within the next 14 days.
If you fail to meet this requirement I will request that a Police Officer contact you to arrange an interview in connection with this matter.
Your sincerely,
xxxxxxx"
I've had so many responses on here I thought I'd try again.
Any ideas on how to proceed? I am a little baffled by the current situation.
Cheers,
GF
38 in a 30 on 12.05.03
1. Got NIP, sent back and asked for photos.
2. Got unsigned NIP returned and photos.
3. Sent unsigned NIP back.
4. Got letter back and unsigned NIP on 14.08.03 saying:
"Dear Mr.XXXXXX,
The form enclosed does not bear the signature of the driver admitting their responsibility. Would you complete one of the Parts 1 to 4 as appropriate.
Thank you.
Your sincerely,
Xxxxxxxx"
Before I had time to do anything I got another letter on 01.09.03
"Dear Mr.XXXXXX,
You have recently been sent a Notice Of Intended Prosecution, in accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offences Act 1988. Under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 you were required to identify the last known Owner/Keeper/Hirer/Driver of the vehicle on the date in question.
I note from my records that I do not appear to have received a response within the 28 day period. In these circumstances I enclose a duplicate of the Notice. I would be grateful to receive your response within the next 14 days.
If you fail to meet this requirement I will request that a Police Officer contact you to arrange an interview in connection with this matter.
Your sincerely,
xxxxxxx"
I've had so many responses on here I thought I'd try again.
Any ideas on how to proceed? I am a little baffled by the current situation.
Cheers,
GF
Golf_Fan said:
Any ideas on how to proceed? I am a little baffled by the current situation.
If you think our answers are wrong, why do you keep asking?
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=55512&f=10&h=0
jeffreyarcher said:
Any ideas on how to proceed? I am a little baffled by the current situation.
If you think our answers are wrong, why do you keep asking?
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=55512&f=10&h=0
jeff this one more sneeky than you think read it.
if they did send a copper they could ask them verbaly un s172.
and if they refused to answer could charge em.
this may be a new way round unsigned nips for em if they can spare the bibs to go round each address.
having sid that i could make for some amussing fun advoiding them if they aint got a photo on record
just get some one to keep answering the saying shoory but hes not in.
they would soon give up as it would wast too much of there time.
but a lot of them what dont know the fgame would fall for it. if they got a vist.
just a note for them that dont know they could not enter your home by fouce or aresst you as it not an aresstable offence.
just get some one else to answer door and say there not there think they may be back in half a years time lol
outlaw said:
Any ideas on how to proceed? I am a little baffled by the current situation.
If you think our answers are wrong, why do you keep asking?
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=55512&f=10&h=0
jeff this one more sneeky than you think read it.
if they did send a copper they could ask them verbaly un s172.
and if they refused to answer could charge em.
this may be a new way round unsigned nips for em if they can spare the bibs to go round each address.
More sneaky, certainly, but otherwise it's not as bad as you're portraying.
For a successful S172 prosecution, they have to show that the recipient hasn't supplied the information. In an unsigned case, the recipient has already provided the information on the unsigned form, so even if he declines to answer the police that come to the door, he cannot be successfuly prosecuted because he has already provided the information.
As I've said before, he mustn't say that though, because that would be the corroboration that he filled in the unsigned form.
outlaw said:
but a lot of them what dont know the fgame would fall for it. if they got a vist.
just a note for them that dont know they could not enter your home by fouce or aresst you as it not an aresstable offence.
Correct.
I think outlaw's pretty much dead on here. Think how many people have read about the nip procedure in the guardian. sending a form back without signing it is a little different to getting a bib visit and this letter would cause a LOT of folks to cave.
But think about it...would north wales seriously have enough staff to issue 4200 verbal nips?
But think about it...would north wales seriously have enough staff to issue 4200 verbal nips?
jeffreyarcher said:
outlaw said:
jeffreyarcher said:
Golf_Fan said:
Any ideas on how to proceed? I am a little baffled by the current situation.
If you think our answers are wrong, why do you keep asking?
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=55512&f=10&h=0
jeff this one more sneeky than you think read it.
if they did send a copper they could ask them verbaly un s172.
and if they refused to answer could charge em.
this may be a new way round unsigned nips for em if they can spare the bibs to go round each address.
More sneaky, certainly, but otherwise it's not as bad as you're portraying.
For a successful S172 prosecution, they have to show that the recipient hasn't supplied the information. In an unsigned case, the recipient has already provided the information on the unsigned form, so even if he declines to answer the police that come to the door, he cannot be successfuly prosecuted because he has already provided the information.
As I've said before, he mustn't say that though, because that would be the corroboration that he filled in the unsigned form.
outlaw said:
but a lot of them what dont know the fgame would fall for it. if they got a vist.
just a note for them that dont know they could not enter your home by fouce or aresst you as it not an aresstable offence.
Correct.
yea but most of forget to send em buck recorded delivery.
howeverits my guess. They are bluffing the local duty sargen, is not going to be happy Bib if half the shifs is out knocking on doors for unsigned nips.
>> Edited by outlaw on Monday 8th September 01:34
Golf_Fan said:
OK guys here's the situation:
38 in a 30 on 12.05.03
1. Got NIP, sent back and asked for photos.
2. Got unsigned NIP returned and photos.
3. Sent unsigned NIP back.
4. Got letter back and unsigned NIP on 14.08.03 saying:
"Dear Mr.XXXXXX,
The form enclosed does not bear the signature of the driver admitting their responsibility. Would you complete one of the Parts 1 to 4 as appropriate.
Thank you.
Your sincerely,
Xxxxxxxx"
Before I had time to do anything I got another letter on 01.09.03
"Dear Mr.XXXXXX,
You have recently been sent a Notice Of Intended Prosecution, in accordance with Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offences Act 1988. Under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 you were required to identify the last known Owner/Keeper/Hirer/Driver of the vehicle on the date in question.
I note from my records that I do not appear to have received a response within the 28 day period. In these circumstances I enclose a duplicate of the Notice. I would be grateful to receive your response within the next 14 days.
If you fail to meet this requirement I will request that a Police Officer contact you to arrange an interview in connection with this matter.
Your sincerely,
xxxxxxx"
I've had so many responses on here I thought I'd try again.
Any ideas on how to proceed? I am a little baffled by the current situation.
Cheers,
GF
I would write back the followring.
re worde and spelled right as im dislesix but you should get the idear.
dear scammers
Re you letter as you have comfirmed in you letter, you have all ready returned the NIP to and completed my legal obligations.
as far as im conserned that is the end of the matter.
if you feel the need to send Police officer to me then that is you choice.
However i will not answer any question he puts to me.
with any other answer than No Coment
and im am under no obligation to answer him any questions Put To me Under section 172.
As you have allready stated in your corespondents.
I have allready forfilled my legal obligains under section 172. in this matter.
as i AM UNDER NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO SIGN IT!
Threrefor. I see no need the repeat my self againg too you, or to a police office or anyone virbaly.
and I WILL NOT!
up yours
nb Its probly a goot idear not to sign the letter pint you nam in block capitals.
send it recorded deliver and keep a copy.
ps dont blam me if you get 3 points
but i recon that should fix em
>> Edited by outlaw on Monday 8th September 07:50
Damn right ..... N Wales Police are hot on the case of anyone who doesn't roll over and pay up. They send 2 BiB and a Scamera van plastered in Arrive Alive propaganda slogans and they interview your neighbours.
Here they have volunteer BiB who do nothing but Camera work
Then they phone you at your workplace.
Doesn't bother me.
Be polite and courteous - they are just human beings doing their job .......rubbish job though it might be.
But the extreme contrast between the enthusiasm they chase the difficult 'few mile/h over' cases and everyday burglaries is not lost on many.
Here they have volunteer BiB who do nothing but Camera work
Then they phone you at your workplace.
Doesn't bother me.
Be polite and courteous - they are just human beings doing their job .......rubbish job though it might be.
But the extreme contrast between the enthusiasm they chase the difficult 'few mile/h over' cases and everyday burglaries is not lost on many.
Richard C said:
Damn right ..... N Wales Police are hot on the case of anyone who doesn't roll over and pay up. They send 2 BiB and a Scamera van plastered in Arrive Alive propaganda slogans and they interview your neighbours.
Here they have volunteer BiB who do nothing but Camera work
Then they phone you at your workplace.
They can come and interview my neighbours any time they like but I don’t think they’ll get a particularly friendly reception!
If they phone my office they are likely to be advised that I’m in a meeting which will last until at least the end of the year and then told to P*ss Off.
These idiots don’t seem to realise that hardly anybody likes them and the more people they scamera the more they will be hated.
justme said:
I would write back the followring.
re worde and spelled right as im dislesix but you should get the idear.
dear scammers
Re you letter as you have comfirmed in you letter, you have all ready returned the NIP to and completed my legal obligations.
as far as im conserned that is the end of the matter.
if you feel the need to send Police officer to me then that is you choice.
However i will not answer any question he puts to me.
with any other answer than No Coment
and im am under no obligation to answer him any questions Put To me Under section 172.
As you have allready stated in your corespondents.
I have allready forfilled my legal obligains under section 172. in this matter.
as i AM UNDER NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO SIGN IT!
Threrefor. I see no need the repeat my self againg too you, or to a police office or anyone virbaly.
and I WILL NOT!
up yours
nb Its probly a goot idear not to sign the letter pint you nam in block capitals.
send it recorded deliver and keep a copy.
ps dont blam me if you get 3 points
but i recon that should fix em ...
Good one, I like it he he...
I understand that if the BiB do visit you, then they must caution you, as if you sign the S172 form it, then becomes a voluntary confession. For this to be valid requires that they caution you that you do not have to say anything etc.....
JeffreyArcher
I don't think you are wrong. I was asking again because I had received another letter from them (since my previous post) and wondered whether it would affect the situation in any way.
If I'm honest I do sometimes get mixed up as what to do as sometimes there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice in here. Also being the most gullible person in the world I can sometimes believe stuff that was intended humourously.
In an earlier post you mentioned doing nothing. I think this is the approach I am going to take.
Cheers,
GF
P.S. Appologies for late replies. I am out of town.
I don't think you are wrong. I was asking again because I had received another letter from them (since my previous post) and wondered whether it would affect the situation in any way.
If I'm honest I do sometimes get mixed up as what to do as sometimes there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice in here. Also being the most gullible person in the world I can sometimes believe stuff that was intended humourously.
In an earlier post you mentioned doing nothing. I think this is the approach I am going to take.
Cheers,
GF
P.S. Appologies for late replies. I am out of town.
Golf_Fan said:
I was asking again because I had received another letter from them (since my previous post) and wondered whether it would affect the situation in any way.
It does not.
Golf_Fan said:
Also being the most gullible person in the world I can sometimes believe stuff that was intended humourously.
Well, don't believe a word the scammers tell you.
Golf_Fan said:
In an earlier post you mentioned doing nothing. I think this is the approach I am going to take.
This is the ony realistic option.
If the police come to the door, you must restrict any response to you have no comment to make. Having failed to get you to sign the form, they will probably try and trick you into saying something that corroborates the fact that it was you who filled in the form.
Be aware that you are almost certain to be summonsed eventually for speeding and / or S172 (failure to supply).
Tafia said:
justme said:
outlaw said:
I would write back the followring.
re worde and spelled right as im dislesix but you should get the idear.
dear scammers
Re you letter as you have comfirmed in you letter, you have all ready returned the NIP to and completed my legal obligations.
as far as im conserned that is the end of the matter.
if you feel the need to send Police officer to me then that is you choice.
However i will not answer any question he puts to me.
with any other answer than No Coment
and im am under no obligation to answer him any questions Put To me Under section 172.
As you have allready stated in your corespondents.
I have allready forfilled my legal obligains under section 172. in this matter.
as i AM UNDER NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO SIGN IT!
Threrefor. I see no need the repeat my self againg too you, or to a police office or anyone virbaly.
and I WILL NOT!
up yours
nb Its probly a goot idear not to sign the letter pint you nam in block capitals.
send it recorded deliver and keep a copy.
ps dont blam me if you get 3 points
but i recon that should fix em ...
Good one, I like it he he...
I understand that if the BiB do visit you, then they must caution you, as if you sign the S172 form it, then becomes a voluntary confession. For this to be valid requires that they caution you that you do not have to say anything etc.....
no not extly m8
if they interview you they should caution you
and then you have the righ of silence.
however s172 is exemp from the right of silence and self incrimination.
I forget the exact words buy any police officer can state that they reqier you to tell them who was driving the car at a given time under s172.
and that is not cover by the right to silence.
however if you all ready have filled in the nip allbe with out signing it.
you have allready completed you legal obligations under s172.
however if you repeat the answer virberly to the bibs
they can now make a statment that can be use against you in court.
and have you banged to rights.
even if they cant use the usign nip they dont need it now.
but if you just say you have allredy supplied the information. ie the unsigned nip and do repeat it too the bibs interviewing you, they sill got no evidence of who was driving the car at the time.
>> Edited by outlaw on Monday 8th September 19:00
jeffreyarcher said:
I was asking again because I had received another letter from them (since my previous post) and wondered whether it would affect the situation in any way.
It does not.
Golf_Fan said:
Also being the most gullible person in the world I can sometimes believe stuff that was intended humourously.
Well, don't believe a word the scammers tell you.
Golf_Fan said:
In an earlier post you mentioned doing nothing. I think this is the approach I am going to take.
This is the ony realistic option.
If the police come to the door, you must restrict any response to you have no comment to make. Having failed to get you to sign the form, they will probably try and trick you into saying something that corroborates the fact that it was you who filled in the form.
Be aware that you are almost certain to be summonsed eventually for speeding and / or S172 (failure to supply).
bear in mind not one person to date has gained a convition for not signing one
however you could always be the first one
that the risk you take
outlaw said:
Be aware that you are almost certain to be summonsed eventually for speeding and / or S172 (failure to supply).
bear in mind not one person to date has gained a convition for not signing one
however you could always be the first one
Agreed; although many have received summonses. Some people panic when they receive the summons and my point really to Golf_Fan was that he should be prepared for the summons.
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