Griff battery questions
Discussion
I am hoping to buy a Griffith 500 later this year. I am going to have to keep it in a garage that does not have an electricity supply. I will only be able to drive it every weekend or, more likely, every other weekend. Not ideal I know but that's how it is.
So, my questions...is the battery likely to go flat every couple of weeks if the car isn't used? I was thinking about getting one of those Halfords jump-start battery things, which I could keep juiced up at home, but does jump-starting on a regular basis cause problems? I read somewhere about jump-starting frying the circuits. I have had a good search on here already and found a lot of useful info. It looks as if I can get some Anderson plugs from Leven or Steve Heath to stop jumping being a complete pain.
My first post, so be nice.
thanks
So, my questions...is the battery likely to go flat every couple of weeks if the car isn't used? I was thinking about getting one of those Halfords jump-start battery things, which I could keep juiced up at home, but does jump-starting on a regular basis cause problems? I read somewhere about jump-starting frying the circuits. I have had a good search on here already and found a lot of useful info. It looks as if I can get some Anderson plugs from Leven or Steve Heath to stop jumping being a complete pain.
My first post, so be nice.
thanks
Yep, it will be in a garage but getting the garage hooked up to the electricity is proving very difficult (for all sorts of reasons). I don't want to wait around for that to happen so plan on just buying the car and jump-starting it when necessary. I've got a trickle charger on my other car but that's in a garage somewhere else that does have electricity. I'd love to drive it every day but go to work on the tube so that is not possible.
can hardly wait. an old Mustang went past me today and that burble...it just sounds so good
can hardly wait. an old Mustang went past me today and that burble...it just sounds so good
Welcome Miller.
I am in the same position, garage without power. I looked into this, but was also looking to increase the legroom. In case you don’t know, the Griff battery is at the bottom of the footwell. This makes for poor passenger legroom. It’s fine if you only carry the wife, but make sure your other half is comfortable before buying. I’m 6’4” short, but my sons are taller and this can be a legroom issue.
The bit about redtop batteries is considering fitting a more compact battery and split charge systems are fitting several small batteries instead of one big one.
TVR’s were fitted with a variety of alarms, dependent on year of manufacture. Many alarms fitted to Griff’s have now been replaced and the standard choice has a microwave motion detector that can be switched off, whilst leaving the rest of the system switched on. This will reduce power consumption and extend battery life.
Alternatively, you could leave the car alarm switched off altogether and fit a security system to the garage itself, based upon a separate battery/solar powered system. Or fit a security system not using electricity if you have that know how.
Hooking a second battery into the system and letting that take much of the strain, then periodically haul that spare battery to somewhere that you can recharge it helps.
Provided you don’t leave it too long the standard battery will cope whilst it’s in good condition.
These cars like to be used. It’s generally thought to be bad for the internals to let the oil drain right away by not starting for long periods. The camshaft in particular can suffer with wear because of this. People who use their cars regularly reputedly have longer lasting cams.
You think that you will be leaving the car in the garage for long periods? In winter this might be true because you will get very protective towards it. But when you first get a Griff it won’t sit in the garage. You will be finding excuses to drive 50 miles for a pint of milk. We all do it.
What follows is an answer to some questions I asked. The author is an electrical expert at Lotus.
Split charge systems are quite easy to engineer although in general one
would up rate the alternator so it could charge up both batteries while
driving the vehicle.
You have to build a balanced system. Two batteries of the same capacity helps.
There seems to be a concern that this car is over charging to start with .
Red Top batteries are only designed for Race cars.
Road car use doesn't suit them. The Mosler MT900 road cars fitted with red
tops would be flat within 5 days with the alarm set.
Race cars use external start batteries if you have prolonged cranking
spells. The Red Tops just cannot do it.
They are fine if the engine fires straight away and fine for race car
electrical loads not everyday road cars and cars left for long periods of
storage.
A motorcycle battery will not power an after market car alarm for more than
a few days.
(Motor cycle alarms are designed with very low quiescent drain - and have no
interior sensors such as microwaves which draw many mA)
The quiescent current draw on aftermarket alarms can be very high.
At Lotus we had to pass a 3 week standby test where the car was parked for 3
weeks with the alarm set. The alarms had a quiescent drain of between
15-20mA. The car had to start after 3 weeks. This was only achievable with a
conventional lead acid new battery conditioned to 70% state of charge. The
battery required was a 45Ah minimum.
Another test we conducted was for Solar panel trickle charges. A range of
panels varying in cost from £30 to £175 were assessed.
They were all useless unless it was bright direct sunlight. You would have
to live in the Med and have the panel track the sun to get it to be of any
use.
What ever you choose to do I recommend that you have a battery kill switch
that totally disconnects the battery from any load when the car is parked in
the garage.
Or fit a mains trickle charger system.
We could measure the cars quiescent drain when it’s in Norfolk.
At the end of the day the bigger the battery the better.
I am in the same position, garage without power. I looked into this, but was also looking to increase the legroom. In case you don’t know, the Griff battery is at the bottom of the footwell. This makes for poor passenger legroom. It’s fine if you only carry the wife, but make sure your other half is comfortable before buying. I’m 6’4” short, but my sons are taller and this can be a legroom issue.
The bit about redtop batteries is considering fitting a more compact battery and split charge systems are fitting several small batteries instead of one big one.
TVR’s were fitted with a variety of alarms, dependent on year of manufacture. Many alarms fitted to Griff’s have now been replaced and the standard choice has a microwave motion detector that can be switched off, whilst leaving the rest of the system switched on. This will reduce power consumption and extend battery life.
Alternatively, you could leave the car alarm switched off altogether and fit a security system to the garage itself, based upon a separate battery/solar powered system. Or fit a security system not using electricity if you have that know how.
Hooking a second battery into the system and letting that take much of the strain, then periodically haul that spare battery to somewhere that you can recharge it helps.
Provided you don’t leave it too long the standard battery will cope whilst it’s in good condition.
These cars like to be used. It’s generally thought to be bad for the internals to let the oil drain right away by not starting for long periods. The camshaft in particular can suffer with wear because of this. People who use their cars regularly reputedly have longer lasting cams.
You think that you will be leaving the car in the garage for long periods? In winter this might be true because you will get very protective towards it. But when you first get a Griff it won’t sit in the garage. You will be finding excuses to drive 50 miles for a pint of milk. We all do it.
What follows is an answer to some questions I asked. The author is an electrical expert at Lotus.
Split charge systems are quite easy to engineer although in general one
would up rate the alternator so it could charge up both batteries while
driving the vehicle.
You have to build a balanced system. Two batteries of the same capacity helps.
There seems to be a concern that this car is over charging to start with .
Red Top batteries are only designed for Race cars.
Road car use doesn't suit them. The Mosler MT900 road cars fitted with red
tops would be flat within 5 days with the alarm set.
Race cars use external start batteries if you have prolonged cranking
spells. The Red Tops just cannot do it.
They are fine if the engine fires straight away and fine for race car
electrical loads not everyday road cars and cars left for long periods of
storage.
A motorcycle battery will not power an after market car alarm for more than
a few days.
(Motor cycle alarms are designed with very low quiescent drain - and have no
interior sensors such as microwaves which draw many mA)
The quiescent current draw on aftermarket alarms can be very high.
At Lotus we had to pass a 3 week standby test where the car was parked for 3
weeks with the alarm set. The alarms had a quiescent drain of between
15-20mA. The car had to start after 3 weeks. This was only achievable with a
conventional lead acid new battery conditioned to 70% state of charge. The
battery required was a 45Ah minimum.
Another test we conducted was for Solar panel trickle charges. A range of
panels varying in cost from £30 to £175 were assessed.
They were all useless unless it was bright direct sunlight. You would have
to live in the Med and have the panel track the sun to get it to be of any
use.
What ever you choose to do I recommend that you have a battery kill switch
that totally disconnects the battery from any load when the car is parked in
the garage.
Or fit a mains trickle charger system.
We could measure the cars quiescent drain when it’s in Norfolk.
At the end of the day the bigger the battery the better.
Thank you very much for your help. I really appreciate it. It's all a bit complicated because the garage is ten minutes away from home, which isn't a lot I know, but it means I can't just pop down in my jimjams to see it is all okay. Perhaps just making sure I have a good battery in it and looking on it as a consumable cost is the best approach ie replacing more often that I would normally. I will want to drive it as much as I can and that is probably what will end up happening. the plan is to buy towards Christmas, have a shakedown for a couple of months and then go to Le Mans and then the Alps in it next year. I'll go through the options you have listed in detail and then let you know what happens because there must be other people with the same predicament.
I'd make sure the garage is secure, then fit a battery cut-off switch to the car. You won't be able to lock or alarm the car (you cold lock and alarm the garage of course...) and you should inform your insurance company accordingly. BUT any immobiliser should still work, and you could further immobilise it by removing a fuse/relay/ecu.
That way you cut-out battyer drain completely.
That way you cut-out battyer drain completely.
Fit an Anderson plug to the battery terminals and hide the plug under the carpet in the foot well. Put an Anderson plug onto one end of a set of jump leads. Finally, garage the Griff with a very good condition fully charged battery, and if you do leave it alarmed, then go get the solar panel from your local caravan supplies and plug it into the fag lighter and sling the other end onto the garage roof.
Alarms come in many forms. You don’t always need a mains supply.
Is the garage somewhere that someone could keep an eye on it, even if it’s too far from home for you, maybe an arrangement with someone living nearby?
Some alarms are solar powered, others use pyrotechnics. [snigger]Uncle Fester likes thing that go bang[/snigger]
Have you considered the kind of thing that security companies use for cash in transit vans? If you open that cash box it explodes and dyes the skin of anyone nearby a funny colour. This allows the Police to identify them as it won’t wash off. It takes a couple of weeks.
Rig one to go off in the face of anyone who opens the garage door the wrong way. The system is mechanical, so no power required.
Just make sure you are the only one who ever open’s that door. Mrs Fester opened my garage door once and forgot. She hit me a lot and won’t let me put one up again.
A friend had repeated burglaries at his business, always through the same window at the rear.
The last time anyone tried it, the owner found something the burglar had lost, about six inches under that window. (Well it could have been half a foot). His attitude was that what’s mine is MINE.
There’s plenty you can do with a little ingenuity and knowhow but no electricity.
Also worth considering is a tracker from this guy. http://www.tvruk.tv/
For most of us, he’s the only one we would have fit an alarm to a TVR. There's a good reason for that.
His tracker sends text messages to your phone. Not only will it text you if the car alarm goes off, it will text you if the car battery is going flat. With that reminder you can go and give the car a run.
Is the garage somewhere that someone could keep an eye on it, even if it’s too far from home for you, maybe an arrangement with someone living nearby?
Some alarms are solar powered, others use pyrotechnics. [snigger]Uncle Fester likes thing that go bang[/snigger]
Have you considered the kind of thing that security companies use for cash in transit vans? If you open that cash box it explodes and dyes the skin of anyone nearby a funny colour. This allows the Police to identify them as it won’t wash off. It takes a couple of weeks.
Rig one to go off in the face of anyone who opens the garage door the wrong way. The system is mechanical, so no power required.
Just make sure you are the only one who ever open’s that door. Mrs Fester opened my garage door once and forgot. She hit me a lot and won’t let me put one up again.
A friend had repeated burglaries at his business, always through the same window at the rear.
The last time anyone tried it, the owner found something the burglar had lost, about six inches under that window. (Well it could have been half a foot). His attitude was that what’s mine is MINE.
There’s plenty you can do with a little ingenuity and knowhow but no electricity.
Also worth considering is a tracker from this guy. http://www.tvruk.tv/
For most of us, he’s the only one we would have fit an alarm to a TVR. There's a good reason for that.
His tracker sends text messages to your phone. Not only will it text you if the car alarm goes off, it will text you if the car battery is going flat. With that reminder you can go and give the car a run.
assuming I don't go the 'two starving Akitas hiding in the garage' route, I will have a good look at that website. What I think I want is just an immobiliser, but no alarm. I have to be in Petersfield next week funnily enough. something that monitors the state of my battery and sends me a text is fantastic - never entered my head that such a thing existed. There's no way I can get someone to keep a look out and I think the residents in the flats will be cross enough about a 5 litre V8, which is odd because you'd think it would enhance life
All this chat about setting or not setting the alarm makes me chuckle; I've had my Griff from new, nearly 10 years now, and I don't lock it or set the alarm in my garage, instead trusting the security of my garage, and it will still drain the battery in two weeks. I use an Accumate to keep it charged and resign myself to treating batteries as consumables and buy a new one approximately every 3 years. Must mean I'm on course for a new one soon! Rich...
p.s. edited to add that another thing to consider is that as the battery charge gets low the alarm will goes off (set or not) thus ensuring that battery is now fully flattened and annoying your neighbours in the process! Oh, and to reset the alarm you have to momentarily disconnect and reconnect the battery like re-booting a PC. But... this needs to be done with the battery charged because otherwise the alarm just starts to grunt and wheeze as the system comes back to life, this in turn means the battery needs to be disconnect in order to charge it, which for you, probably means rolling the car out of the garage, which you won't be able to do with a flat battery... Lisa, there's a hole in my bucket...
Rich...p.s. edited to add that another thing to consider is that as the battery charge gets low the alarm will goes off (set or not) thus ensuring that battery is now fully flattened and annoying your neighbours in the process! Oh, and to reset the alarm you have to momentarily disconnect and reconnect the battery like re-booting a PC. But... this needs to be done with the battery charged because otherwise the alarm just starts to grunt and wheeze as the system comes back to life, this in turn means the battery needs to be disconnect in order to charge it, which for you, probably means rolling the car out of the garage, which you won't be able to do with a flat battery... Lisa, there's a hole in my bucket...
Edited by RichB on Tuesday 29th July 10:24
I've got an Anderson lpug on the front cross member behind the rad but still under the bonnet. It has a rubber boot cover so no access to water anyway. Easy to charge, open bonnet, plag male Anderson into female and attach charger (or in your case spare battery) to leads.
You can by the anderson connectors and cable form any decent auto electrical store. Try here:
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinest...
FFG
You can by the anderson connectors and cable form any decent auto electrical store. Try here:
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinest...
FFG
for what its worth I use a bit of both suggested here. I have a 1994 Griff 500 with a new battery. It will run the alarm (set or unset) for 2 weeks only then its too flat to start it.
I also have a race cut out switch and anderson connector with modified jump leads (I keep these in the boot for obvious reasons).
I can use an optimate and often do, but I also use the race cut out from time to time. Its also dead handy when working on the car or for resetting the ecu.
I'd go for a concealed cut out switch if i was keeping it in a remote garage with no power.
FFMan said:
for what its worth I use a bit of both suggested here. I have a 1994 Griff 500 with a new battery. It will run the alarm (set or unset) for 2 weeks only then its too flat to start it.
I also have a race cut out switch and anderson connector with modified jump leads (I keep these in the boot for obvious reasons).
I can use an optimate and often do, but I also use the race cut out from time to time. Its also dead handy when working on the car or for resetting the ecu.
I'd go for a concealed cut out switch if i was keeping it in a remote garage with no power.
What happens when the battery's so flat you can't get into the boot?I also have a race cut out switch and anderson connector with modified jump leads (I keep these in the boot for obvious reasons).
I can use an optimate and often do, but I also use the race cut out from time to time. Its also dead handy when working on the car or for resetting the ecu.
I'd go for a concealed cut out switch if i was keeping it in a remote garage with no power.
miller1899 said:
assuming I don't go the 'two starving Akitas hiding in the garage' route, I will have a good look at that website. What I think I want is just an immobiliser, but no alarm. I have to be in Petersfield next week funnily enough. something that monitors the state of my battery and sends me a text is fantastic - never entered my head that such a thing existed. There's no way I can get someone to keep a look out and I think the residents in the flats will be cross enough about a 5 litre V8, which is odd because you'd think it would enhance life
You are limited to having an alarm because the insurance will insist. If the car goes missing then it was set.;)An increasing number of Griff's have been fitted with modern replacement ECU's. If you buy one that has this, You can change the map in seconds.
If I leave mine unattended for a long time then the map thats in the memory could be blank, run rough as a baggers butt, or have a rev limit of about 3. Any thief wouldn't get far before giving up.
Better than any imobiliser.
I thought having the anderson plug in the footwell was the option to go for. I think that a combination of what everyone has said above will do the trick and solve the problems. I haven't got an alarm on my shopping trolley and thought an immobiliser would be okay, but whatever I do I'll check with the insurers first. beginning to get rather excited now, although that could be the Malbec speaking. I just need to get the garage door fixed, which is falling off, and then I am good to go.
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