Brake Master Cylinder for Slyva Phoenix

[Comadis]

hi,

i need a new brake master cylinder for my sylva...

the one fitted says Girling 74650038

has 3 outlets, tandem cylinder...as its still fitted i cant tell the piston dimension.

fixing flange: distance of the holes is 80mm

typed in the girling item-no. at google: nothing.

anybody has an idea?

[Sam_68]

I'd say that what you want is a Girling 74650038.

[Comadis]

but how or where should i order a Girling 74650038 when nobody can handle this number? the compatibility list at ford says unknown, even Girling and ATE distributors do not find anything in their records...

Edited by Comadis on Monday 4th August 13:14

[Sam_68]

Contact Girling direct, then.

It looks remarkably like a Girling part number to me, though the fact that it's cast onto the master cylinder is itself a bit of a dead giveaway.

[thescamper]

If all else fails give Jeremy Phillips a call at:

Sylva Autokits Ltd
Unit 9, Townley Close,
Boston Road Industrial Estate,
Horncastle,
Lincolnshire
LN9 6JW
Tel : [phone]
Email : [e-mail]

[Comadis]

my parts suplier will try to get infos directly from girling.

what i found is:

the girling cylinder from a ford cortina MK4, looks exactly the same, also the dimensions of the fixing and the piston are the same.

but ford used this one for servo assisted brakes only. this means it come without any operation rod.

[Comadis]

@thescamper:

since my last contact with jeremy about the roll-cage on my car, which ended in a big discusion where he didnt want to believe that my car was suplied with a phoenix body and a striker chassis (i have all the invoices, receipts and bills, signed by him) it will not make sence to ask him.

[Comadis]

the one from the ford cortina is longer--> does not fit.

i found the correct one in the meanwhile, but should cost 250, euro!!!!

no way...so still searching an alternative.

contacted girling: the casting-no´s are no reference (and this is what i heard now from several supliers).

[Furyblade_Lee]

Blimey! I do not think anything on my Sylva costs 250 euro!

[Comadis]

the sierra and transit mk4 look similar, too....

[Sam_68]

For what it's worth, the recommended master cylinder for an early Striker is from a non-servo Vauxhall Viva, Lockheed part no. 4222406.

But you knew that already, didn't you?

[Comadis]

thanx sam...no i havent known that. but mine is the car with the inboard suspensin. presume only the cars with the vauxhall front suspension/axle parts used it?

a friend of mine owns such a car and it looks exactly like this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

its Lockheed 4224-908. the lockheed you listed is for front drum-brakes.

mine should look like this (picture doesnt show the actuating-lever):

http://www.oldcars.de/shop/index_en.htm?f=NR&c...

by the way it costs "only" 220,-euro

[Sam_68]

Comadis said:

presume only the cars with the vauxhall front suspension/axle parts used it?

No, it's listed in the build manual for the Mk. II (rocker suspension).

Depending on local roadworthyness regulations, your other option is simply to change it for a single circuit Girling (or other) master cylinder. My car uses this approach (I've still got the old dual circuit M/cyl somewhere, though it will be in a box in storage at my other house); it tends to give a firmer pedal and easier-to-bleed braking system than the tandem m/cyl. It depends whether you're allowed single circuit brakes, of course.

[anonymous-user]

You may find this link for ATE of use for Brake components

http://www.ate-brakes.com/generator/www/com/en/ate...

Chose "Catlogues" then "Replacemenent Parts Online"
It'll then open another window where you can chose the vehicle you are interested in. Not stuff for everything there but there is a fair bit of bore/length type info you can have a dig around on

[Comadis]

no way to go back from a tandem to a single cylinder....thats too dangerous.

as we are middle in the "driving-season" i also do not want to change the complete box assembly to a bias brake system. until i have the parts and the car modified the season would be over.

i still can use the original cylinder. its a bit spongy and i´m not 100% sure if its really damaged. i dissassebmled it, checked all seals. they do not look worn, also the piston and the cylinder wall look like new. there is no leakage or loss of fluide.

the only way it could be damaged is that its leaking inbetween the 2 circuits...but that would be totally unusual.

[JohnCL]

Try Andy at Rally Design, he supplied cyls for me and advised on size etc.

[Sam_68]

Comadis said:

no way to go back from a tandem to a single cylinder....thats too dangerous.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who are willing to drive tiny, lightweight cars that are difficult for other road users to spot and offer negligible crash protection, yet worry about something like this!

The chances of a sudden and catastrophic brake failure on a car that is well maintained and regularly has its fluid levels checked is negligible.

Comadis said:

I still can use the original cylinder. its a bit spongy

Does it give a hard pedal when you bleed it, then gradually become spongy? If not (ie. if it's always spongey), then the chances are there's nothing wrong with it and it simply needs bleeding properly or else the fluid has been boiled and need replacing.

Edited by Sam_68 on Thursday 14th August 21:57

[Comadis]

new fluide (in the meanwhile 3 litres went through the system), bleeded in the old fashioned way: 1 person pumping, 1 person opening and closing the bleeding screw. bleeded in the modern way with pressurising the system and another time with vacuum.

and the pedal is still spongy for several centimetres.

by the way: the flexible hoses are braided ones.

when i checked the interiors of the master cylinder it was clear for me that it couldnt be the clyinder, but after so many bleeding i think the easiest way to exclude the technical side is to change something.(cylinder)

[Sam_68]

Comadis said:

...but after so many bleeding i think the easiest way to exclude the technical side is to change something.(cylinder)

...so that you have to start trying to bleed it all over again?

The symptom you describe is not a typical m/cylinder fault. If the master cylinder had a problem you would expect the system to bleed to a hard pedal, then either become spongy over time, or (more usually) the pedal would gradually sink to the floor under sustained pressure.

The symptoms you describe sound more like an air bubble in the system somewhere. It could be that it's hiding at a high spot in the pipework or calipers, in which case bleeding it out could be very difficult. But changing the master cylinder at random will just take you right back to where you started...

Edited by Sam_68 on Friday 15th August 12:25

[motco]

Try Past Parts. They will know from the casting number or will be able to refurbish your existing cylinder to a better spec (stainless liner) quickly and for a reasonable amount.