Monday 4th August 2008

Government Considering Buying Old Cars

We'll pay you to go green...

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A car scrapping scheme could be launched which will see drivers of old cars being paid to get rid of them.

Drivers of high emission cars are being targetted to encourage them to switch to a more environmentally friendly model but a Government report out today is recommending that a financial incentive is provided to help drivers make the switch.

The Commons Environmental Audit Committee says that the Government is right to punish people who own high-polluting cars – but it wants a system of rewards for motorists who get rid of their gas-guzzlers, on condition that the cars are scrapped and not sent abroad to carry on polluting.

The Treasury minister, Angela Eagle, said that the Government is willing to look at the idea, but warned: "You have to get the timing right or it can have an adverse effect."

A similar French scheme that had a time limit of one year led to a boom in the sale of new cars, which was immediately followed by a fall of 20 per cent.

[Adam B]

but the numpties that run our country have massively increased VED on new cars with more efficient, better maintained engines with cats but not pre-2001 cars

probably offer you £100 four your bangers to get you in a car they can tax you £100 pa more on

[AutoAndy]

So how much CO2,etc is produced by an old car being contiued to be used each year compared to the amount of CO2 to build a new car to replace it every two or three years! (including digging up the materials, transporting them, manufacturing, etc)....It is actually worse for the environemnt (although new car tax would mean it is better for the tax man)...

[Eddy5]

What a waste of old cars. Recycle this, scrap that. It doesn't make any sense.

[SleeperCell]

Adam B said:

probably offer you £100 four your bangers to get you in a car they can tax you £100 pa more on

Who would chop in an old banger for £100? You'd get more in scrap.

They'd have to offer at least £500 and more like £1000 to really make it worthwhile to people.

[DaveL485]

SleeperCell said:

Adam B said:

probably offer you £100 four your bangers to get you in a car they can tax you £100 pa more on

Who would chop in an old banger for £100? You'd get more in scrap.

They'd have to offer at least £500 and more like £1000 to really make it worthwhile to people.

I Wonder where they'll find the revenue to do that....

[dhampton]

Echo Andy's comments. The government are clearly braindead.

[dazsmith69]

what a croc of st, another useless idea from our country leaders

concentrate on crime, imigration and healthcare first then think about paying for our bangers

stupid fkwits

[cvegas]

I believe that the French scheme was primarily to get rid of non-cat equipped cars and not to reduce C02. Which did at least make some sense.

[DeadMeat_UK]

How much CO2 etc is used in the production of a new car vs running an old car for a few years.

I would be willing to hazard a guess, considering how much plastic is in cars.

[bob1179]

I like driving old cars.

I will not be bullied by this government into changing that.

Anyway, I thought that overall (ie. 'Cradle to Grave') it made more environmental sense to buy secondhand as then there are less new cars being produced as it is the production process that creates most of these so called 'greenhouse' gases?

Anyway, it is all bks and we should be left alone to do what we want. If you want a new car, buy a new car. If like me, you don't want a new one, don't buy one.

[joz8968]

bob1179 said:

I like driving old cars.

I will not be bullied by this government into changing that.

Anyway, I thought that overall (ie. 'Cradle to Grave') it made more environmental sense to buy secondhand as then there are less new cars being produced as it is the production process that creates most of these so called 'greenhouse' gases?

Anyway, it is all bks and we should be left alone to do what we want. If you want a new car, buy a new car. If like me, you don't want a new one, don't buy one.

My sentiments EXACTLY! Bloody meddling Commie b******s! It's their arrogant assumption that people have the means, or the will, to do as they say that riles me

Nothing else needs to be added to the above post... Q.E.D.

Edited by joz8968 on Monday 4th August 13:28

[MitchT]

I have no desire whatsoever to drive a slow car so what would happen is that they'd give me a pittance for my car and then I'd have to fork out a fortune for its new equivalent and punitive rates of road tax on top. They can sod off. My next car will be much more powerful than my current one, and probably older. If the government gives me an E92 M3 as a straight-swap for my current car and waives the VED altogether I might consider something newer, otherwise I'd sooner emigrate than be told what I'm allowed to drive.

[Mr POD]

Eddy5 said:

What a waste of old cars. Recycle this, scrap that. It doesn't make any sense.

In order of bestness:

Reuse

Repair

Refurbish

Recycle

MY wife has a 1.8 cavalier that does 6K a year does 30 mpg . The equivalent sized turbo Diesel vectra is 15K ? and does 50 mpg ? If I sold the cav for it's current value, the payback in fuel savings would be 39 years !!!!!

If they gave me £14K the payback would be 2 years.

[berkorich]

SleeperCell said:

Adam B said:

probably offer you £100 four your bangers to get you in a car they can tax you £100 pa more on

Who would chop in an old banger for £100? You'd get more in scrap.

They'd have to offer at least £500 and more like £1000 to really make it worthwhile to people.

They are not talking about compensation for getting rid of bangers but for gas-guzzlers - they are not necessarily the same thing. As an earlier poster says, the French scheme was more to do with getting rid of bangers.

What would be the financial incentive for me to choose to scrap my 2000/X Mercedes CLK55 for example? Currently not effected by the proposed hike in RFL as it is pre-March 2001. £1,000 is hardly going to incentivise me, is it? Would the government actually match the potential part-ex value say, to actually offer me a carrot to switch to a more economical car?

Edited by berkorich on Monday 4th August 13:27

[fastgerman.com]

I think that was a comment on Top Gear about second hand cars being better for the environment than production and transportation of new. It should also be done on mileage.

Example: What is polluting more: -
A. Porsche 930 Turbo / Ferrari 308 being started up and driven around a roundabout once a month.
B. Ford Mondeo diesel covering 40,000 miles per year

???

[mmltonge]

It's true that over the cars lifespan it's much better for us to keep our old cars than have new ones made for us HOWEVER

- Cars are rarely built in Britain these days
- CO2 from exhaust is emitted in Britain
- CO2 from manufacturing is emitted in China/India etc
- CO2 from shipping/freight on the seas is exempt

They'll probably even send the cars abroad to be scrapped as shipping is exempt from CO2 calculations so all of this CO2 is off the governments books and allows them to say "Hey - we've had a massive reduction in CO2 emissions, we'll hit our targets!"

This is all about them realising they've set themselves unrealistic targets for something which no one really cares about (apart from a minority of die hard greenies) but not wanting to go back on it so they'll do anything they can to hit those targets - even if it means making the "problem" worse globally As long as it looks like they're doing well that's all that matters!

Edited by mmltonge on Monday 4th August 13:34

[skimmo]

joz8968 said:

bob1179 said:

I like driving old cars.

I will not be bullied by this government into changing that.

Anyway, I thought that overall (ie. 'Cradle to Grave') it made more environmental sense to buy secondhand as then there are less new cars being produced as it is the production process that creates most of these so called 'greenhouse' gases?

Anyway, it is all bks and we should be left alone to do what we want. If you want a new car, buy a new car. If like me, you don't want a new one, don't buy one.

My sentiments EXACTLY! Bloody meddling Commie b******s! Nothing else needs to be added to the above post... Q.E.D.

Edited by joz8968 on Monday 4th August 13:24

The government will have to dig deep in thier pockets to convince me to part with my beloved 'old banger' as they call it!! If they want me to buy a new car then they can pay for the full amount and I'm not settling for anything less than a Golf R32 if your reading this Mr Brown!! Idiots!!

[quiksilva]

What's next? Compulsary sterilisation of any adult that has had two children? That would have a greater impact on the reduction of CO2 for the future than any car related scheme! Or how about banning every member of Parliament including all ministers and the PM from using a car and forcing them to use only public transport. Its about time we saw a bit more of do as I do, rather then do as I say! Not to mention the supposed £13million the BBC allegedly spent on taxi fares last year!
Help, get me off my soapbox before I really get started!

[mark3man]

DeadMeat_UK said:

How much CO2 etc is used in the production of a new car vs running an old car for a few years.

I would be willing to hazard a guess, considering how much plastic is in cars.

I seem to remember reading on PH several months ago that it was something like 80% of the CO2 was produced during making (and scrapping) the car vs 20% for its (say) 20 year life. Those may not be completely accurate ratios but it of that order. So if it is a car with a catalytic converter, it's probably ecologically worth keeping it going. After all, the MoT analyses the exhaust to see if it is past redemption.

[dpbird90]

Another bit of proof to TG's theory that Brown is Stalin. "You will not have big expensive cars because I want everyone to drive slow, useless ugly stboxes so the country is eco friendly"

Really, nobody cares what Brown says or thinks any more. Really, does he think he will entice people out of "evil gas guzzling" cars like, for instance, an Aston Martin, by saying he will buy it off them for pennies to help them buy an eco st box?

At this difficult time with the most useless government in world history, I must admire the patience of Her Majesty the Queen. As you may know, she has the power to dissolve Parliament if she wishes to. And she hasn't yet, not even after one too many drinks. If I had that power I would have done it many years ago, when his Tonyness was in charge.

Why haven't any PHers made their own Political Party? It would be a great idea, and if I were in charge the only thing which would be dictator-like would be to ban eco-political hippy sandle wearing vegetarian nonsense speaking tree hugging, lentil and chick pea boiling and eating groups. Then VED would be lowered to the same rate for all cars except G Whizzes which would be taxed to the hills because they are hateful little steboxes which are unsafe to drive at any speed (youtube g whizz table crash, obviously this was a test devised by Clarkson) and take up half the space in London these days. Come to think of it, I just might do that...