K2 Climbers. Heroes Or Plain Crazy.
Discussion
The mountain is fighting back and even in 2008 with modern equipment and technology it's winning the battle. Anyway with a 25% chance you will die in the attempt to scale the mountain, what possesses this guys to go for it. The odds are even worse if you are a woman. Personally I think they are heroes but I wouldn't try it.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K2
RobDickinson said:
Just brave and/or stupid and dedicated/commited.
I'd class our own Polar Ben as brave and dedicated 
http://bensaunders.com/
RobDickinson said:
Wouldnt be my definition of 'hero'.
Someone climbing up there to save someone elses life would be.
Just brave and/or stupid and dedicated/commited.
My opinion precisely. Someone climbing up there to save someone elses life would be.
Just brave and/or stupid and dedicated/commited.
They go up there secure in the knowledge that others are prepared to risk THEIR lives, voluntarily, should the aforementioned thrill seekers get into trouble a bit too deep.
They should be made to sign a disclaimer that they are on their own if they get into trouble above a certain height.
There will always be those that want to push the limits, some will die trying and some will succeed, its how humans have been making progress through e millennia.
They go up there secure in the knowledge that others are prepared to risk THEIR lives, voluntarily, should the aforementioned thrill seekers get into trouble a bit too deep.
They should be made to sign a disclaimer that they are on their own if they get into trouble above a certain height.Do you really think that there is a K2 branch of the mountain rescue squad?
King Herald said:
RobDickinson said:
Wouldnt be my definition of 'hero'.
Someone climbing up there to save someone elses life would be.
Just brave and/or stupid and dedicated/commited.
My opinion precisely. Someone climbing up there to save someone elses life would be.
Just brave and/or stupid and dedicated/commited.
They go up there secure in the knowledge that others are prepared to risk THEIR lives, voluntarily, should the aforementioned thrill seekers get into trouble a bit too deep.
They should be made to sign a disclaimer that they are on their own if they get into trouble above a certain height.
King Herald said:
They go up there secure in the knowledge that others are prepared to risk THEIR lives, voluntarily, should the aforementioned thrill seekers get into trouble a bit too deep.
They should be made to sign a disclaimer that they are on their own if they get into trouble above a certain height.
They should be made to sign a disclaimer that they are on their own if they get into trouble above a certain height.
There is no mountain rescue in the Himalayas. There isn't even an understanding between climbers that they'll try to help, as it's hard enough climbing there (particularly K2) without having the burden of a dead weight. If you f
k up you're on your own, unless your mates try to help.Hero is a much overused word these days. As stated above bravery is when you voluntarily put your own life at risk for the sake of another, not when you do something to satisfy your own adrenelin lust.
Having said that hats off to anyone taking on such a venture, it's easy for us to criticise from out armchairs.
Having said that hats off to anyone taking on such a venture, it's easy for us to criticise from out armchairs.
GreenDog said:
Having said that hats off to anyone taking on such a venture, it's easy for us to criticise from out armchairs.
Exactly. I don't think many on here would have the guts to put a lot on the line to get to one of the highest places on earth for sts and giggles. That's not a crtiscism of people on here more an observation of how driven these people must be to do it. As you say, hats off to them.I see no difference between high altitude mountaineering and motor racing.
These guys are professionals, funded by sponsorship and bits of journalism. It's not like Everest where it's all guided tours.
I've a lot of respect for their skill and endurance. It's not something I could ever do.
I don't hear anyone criticising Hillary and Tensing?
Sadly at those sorts of altitude and in that sort of terrain accidents will happen. Once you go above 8k you're basically dying anyway, and it's a race against the clock. And most of the accidents happen on the way down...
These guys are professionals, funded by sponsorship and bits of journalism. It's not like Everest where it's all guided tours.
I've a lot of respect for their skill and endurance. It's not something I could ever do.
I don't hear anyone criticising Hillary and Tensing?
Sadly at those sorts of altitude and in that sort of terrain accidents will happen. Once you go above 8k you're basically dying anyway, and it's a race against the clock. And most of the accidents happen on the way down...
As mad as hatters. When ever I climbed to the top of trees and looked down I nearly always shat myself thinking 'how the hell am I gonna get down', I wonder if these climbers ever feel the same 
. Not so much heroes but they must have great control over their natural body's reactions to be able to suppress fear over a long period of time, much like endurance racing drivers traveling at constant high speeds. There must be that tendency to ask yourself momentarily 'what if something goes wrong', and the need to shove that feeling to the back of your mind. Nerves of steel.
. Not so much heroes but they must have great control over their natural body's reactions to be able to suppress fear over a long period of time, much like endurance racing drivers traveling at constant high speeds. There must be that tendency to ask yourself momentarily 'what if something goes wrong', and the need to shove that feeling to the back of your mind. Nerves of steel.Very brave but not heroic. It's the ultimate challenge to a lot of people, K2 is usually considered a harder climb than Everest due to the weather even though it's not as high.
I would love to have the strength and will to do something like that but personally I think the risk is far too great (1 in 10 chance of dying on Everest and even higher for K2). It's also expensive, something like £30k for Everest I think.
When you go up Everest you can still see the bodies of some people who died there, too dangerous to bring them down and the cold keeps them fairly well-preserved.
I would love to have the strength and will to do something like that but personally I think the risk is far too great (1 in 10 chance of dying on Everest and even higher for K2). It's also expensive, something like £30k for Everest I think.
When you go up Everest you can still see the bodies of some people who died there, too dangerous to bring them down and the cold keeps them fairly well-preserved.
since the dawn of commercial climbing where £20K will get you on an expedition up everest, there has been a significant dillution of climbing traditions.
people are now far less willing to help others in distress as a result of the money they have spent to "achieve their dream". funny how these people have only very limited climbing experience and yet everest is their "dream"?!?... but anyway, their desire to get to the top means that their knowledge and appreciation for the old traditions of climbing is very limited. why risk rescuing someone when it might jeoparidise your chances of reaching the summit. i odnt want to judge all expedition comapnies morals but the companies dragging them up everest know that a successful summit is good for business too....
if i saw someone in trouble on a mountain i would help them if it would not endanger me and i could be sure that they were "saveable", i appreciate thats a very subjective comment but i would be happy to sacrifice a summit attempt to help someone. I have read many acccounts of climbers who have left someone to die on a mountain as they were too far gone to be saved and any rescue attempt would endanger the rescuers. I would like to think that a fellow climber would repay the favour one day.
in the UK i have never come across someone in need of help despite many trips to scotland in the winter and snowdonia throughout the year. i see a lot of peopel who are wearing totally inappropriate clothing or who look lost but are adamant they know where tey are so have seen people who may get into trouble in the close future but never someone actually in trouble. the attitude in this country for may day trippers is "its britain, its only 1000m, how hard can it be?"
K2 is a phenomenally difficult mountain to climb, far more technical than everest hence why i think for every 1 person who has stood on the summit of K2, there are something like 100 who have stood on the summit of everest.
people are now far less willing to help others in distress as a result of the money they have spent to "achieve their dream". funny how these people have only very limited climbing experience and yet everest is their "dream"?!?... but anyway, their desire to get to the top means that their knowledge and appreciation for the old traditions of climbing is very limited. why risk rescuing someone when it might jeoparidise your chances of reaching the summit. i odnt want to judge all expedition comapnies morals but the companies dragging them up everest know that a successful summit is good for business too....
if i saw someone in trouble on a mountain i would help them if it would not endanger me and i could be sure that they were "saveable", i appreciate thats a very subjective comment but i would be happy to sacrifice a summit attempt to help someone. I have read many acccounts of climbers who have left someone to die on a mountain as they were too far gone to be saved and any rescue attempt would endanger the rescuers. I would like to think that a fellow climber would repay the favour one day.
in the UK i have never come across someone in need of help despite many trips to scotland in the winter and snowdonia throughout the year. i see a lot of peopel who are wearing totally inappropriate clothing or who look lost but are adamant they know where tey are so have seen people who may get into trouble in the close future but never someone actually in trouble. the attitude in this country for may day trippers is "its britain, its only 1000m, how hard can it be?"
K2 is a phenomenally difficult mountain to climb, far more technical than everest hence why i think for every 1 person who has stood on the summit of K2, there are something like 100 who have stood on the summit of everest.
Similar to most opinions here, the heroes are the ones who risk their lives to save other climbers that have got into difficulties.
I have no problem with people risking their lives but do think the commercial "pay us a big wedge of cash and we'll get you to the summit" operations encourage people who don't understand climbing to attempt the ascents. To me, the attitude of "summiting at all costs" is one of the most stupid. If you are an experienced mountaineer, you know that there are times when you have to say "not today", even after putting in lots of effort/time/money. It's a frustrating feature of the mountains.
I have no problem with people risking their lives but do think the commercial "pay us a big wedge of cash and we'll get you to the summit" operations encourage people who don't understand climbing to attempt the ascents. To me, the attitude of "summiting at all costs" is one of the most stupid. If you are an experienced mountaineer, you know that there are times when you have to say "not today", even after putting in lots of effort/time/money. It's a frustrating feature of the mountains.
omohat said:
spikeyhead said:
Do you really think that there is a K2 branch of the mountain rescue squad?
Yes - its called the Pakistani Army. Who do you think goes in to pull these climbers out when they get into trouble?If it's an emergency evac from base camp then yes, it is usually military equipment.
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