Discussion
Due to the volume of work caused by new "Safety" camera tickets not being accepted on time, Courts are finding too little time to deal with speeders and unsigned S.172 Notices, and the judge still make it out to the golf course by lunchtime. Solution - make failure to sign a fixed penalty rather than a compulsory court appearance.
Result - - Govt still gets it's money, you still get your points, and I still get to go golfing. Luvvly jubbbly. Discuss.
Result - - Govt still gets it's money, you still get your points, and I still get to go golfing. Luvvly jubbbly. Discuss.
Better idea, you take your golf clubs and a bucket of balls with you and find the nearest speed camera. Plot up on a grass verge about 50ft away and see if you can hit the bloody thing hard enough to destroy it. You will make untold new friends, be improving your game and be helping the community by cutting down wasted court time. 
Ivan
Ivan
jeffreyarcher said:
bobthebench said:
Solution - make failure to sign a fixed penalty rather than a compulsory court appearance.
They have to make it an offence first
BTW S172 became a fixed penalty on 1?/7/03
plus what that do when you dont sign that and send it back with out paying
>> Edited by outlaw on Thursday 11th September 07:36
How many pts for not signing then?
and are you sure that it is now FPN ? so really, if you are up for a "big" speed, you'd be better off not signing & get X points & £XXXX fine?
Very interesting, please post back here on this.
rgds.
>> Edited by hertsbiker on Thursday 11th September 08:21
and are you sure that it is now FPN ? so really, if you are up for a "big" speed, you'd be better off not signing & get X points & £XXXX fine?
Very interesting, please post back here on this.
rgds.
>> Edited by hertsbiker on Thursday 11th September 08:21
Well I've just returned a company NIP without signing and I amended the NIP to read the insured driver was...I'm not a policeman and hence can't do there work for them.
I await whatever letter. However I think they'll just reissue the NIP to my employee based on my unsigned information.
I await whatever letter. However I think they'll just reissue the NIP to my employee based on my unsigned information.
bobthebench said:
Due to the volume of work caused by new "Safety" camera tickets not being accepted on time, Courts are finding too little time to deal with speeders and unsigned S.172 Notices, and the judge still make it out to the golf course by lunchtime. Solution - make failure to sign a fixed penalty rather than a compulsory court appearance.
Result - - Govt still gets it's money, you still get your points, and I still get to go golfing. Luvvly jubbbly. Discuss.
Does that mean that not signing is now a fixed penalty? When did they sneak that one through? Presumably by SI during the summer recess.
Or is it just an idea that they are thinking about?
Personally I think they should do away with cameras, and invest in more traffic police in marked cars. Have enough of them and speeding won't be possible as you'll always be in sight of a marked car!
It should also increase driver training as marked cars will be able to stop all those who drive without due care, recklessly etc.
As an extra it will probably reduce crime figures overall as an extra police presence will make potential rapists, burglars, muggers etc think again, and if they do commit their offences there will be a greater chance of them getting caught due to an increased police presence.
justme said:
Totally agree.
But it's not nearly as cost-effective
Their plan is to do away with the police, and automate the lot.
Discretion? what discretion?
Ah but they don't want to catch us all
, and they are not aiming to make lots of money 
, they just want to reduce speeds! Now back to the real world!
hertsbiker said:
How many pts for not signing then?
and are you sure that it is now FPN ? so really, if you are up for a "big" speed, you'd be better off not signing & get X points & £XXXX fine?
Very interesting, please post back here on this.
rgds.
>> Edited by hertsbiker on Thursday 11th September 08:21
But presumably if youve been caught at a big speed, youll not get the NIP in the first place, but will just get a court summons? Saying that, i think you only get the FPN offer AFTER returning the form incriminating yourself - i think?
Mad Dave said:
...if youve been caught at a big speed, youll not get the NIP in the first place, but will just get a court summons? Saying that, i think you only get the FPN offer AFTER returning the form incriminating yourself - i think?
Who's "you"?
The registered keeper? or the actual driver?
Two different concepts - the NIP tries to make the link. Help *them* -> help *you*
hertsbiker said:
How many pts for not signing then?
"Not signing" is not the charge, "failing to supply" is the charge. The law has not changed. There is (DPP -v-Broomfield crap excluded) no requirement to sign.
hertsbiker said:
and are you sure that it is now FPN ? so really, if you are up for a "big" speed, you'd be better off not signing & get X points & £XXXX fine?
They don't have to give you the FPN; for a big speed, presumably they wouldn't. AIUI the FPN is 3 points & £120, although that is unclear.
Taking the S172 hit has always been recommended for big speeders. For very big speeders, Stott -v-Brown, Privy Council, Dec. 2002 may also protect them in an S172 for "not supplying".
>> Edited by jeffreyarcher on Thursday 11th September 11:54
hertsbiker said:
how about any old offense that requires a confession? do you get 3pts, or do you get ???????
this would be a good time to know the facts!
Assuming you mean the new FPN tariff for a S172 FPN, I don't know for sure. The one I quoted is from the most reliable source, however, I have also seen:
£100 + 5 pts. & £100 + 6 pts. suggested. AIUI, the higher figures (for points) were only proposals.
If you have a big speeding NIP pending, post here and I'll give you more info.
jeffreyarcher said:
If you have a big speeding NIP pending, post here and I'll give you more info.
What about 65mph in a 30 limit
(dual carriageway - no traffic, no junctions) caught with Talivan. Driver (not me) is named on insurance but not registered keeper. Advised him that there is only one 30 sign on left on road entry, no sign on right. He may get off on a technicality but is expecting a ban....
r55mur said:
jeffreyarcher said:
If you have a big speeding NIP pending, post here and I'll give you more info.
What about 65mph in a 30 limit (dual carriageway - no traffic, no junctions) caught with Talivan. Driver (not me) is named on insurance but not registered keeper.
I doubt that that's bad enough. You have to be looking at fines much over £1K (or jail)
. r55mur said:
Advised him that there is only one 30 sign on left on road entry, no sign on right. He may get off on a technicality but is expecting a ban....
No, not a technicality, a solid defence. Get a 'photo, pronto.
However, you say, "road entry"; if he turned into another road at a junction, and the other road has a different speed limit, there are special rules and only one sign may be required. That is explained very well here: www.abd.org.uk/speed_limit_signs.htm#beginning .
Even if only one sign is required, however, and in the absence of any other defence, you might get away with it if you manage to ambush the fiscal (I'm assuming that you're in Scotland) with it at the trial.
Also, if you're in Scotland, and it's an 'A' or 'B' road, and it has lights, and it was a thirty limit before 1986, it will be worth checking with the local authority that it does actually have a valid speed limit order on the road.
If you want more details of this, post here.
>> Edited by jeffreyarcher on Thursday 11th September 15:42
[quote=jeffreyarcher]
Also, if you're in Scotland, and it's an 'A' or 'B' road, and it has lights, and it was a thirty limit before 1986, it will be worth checking with the local authority that it does actually have a valid speed limit order on the road.
If you want more details of this, post here.
quote]
Go on then, if you insist, I'm printing all this off........ I should really be working though.....
Thanks for your time
Ross
Edited to say, Just looked at the ABD website, might be on a road to nowhere here.
The road in question is a 40mph dual carriageway, he turned right at a crossroads onto a 30 mph dual carriageway, one sign on left hand side.
The wording on the site mentions side road, Would a dual carriageway come under this definition?
>> Edited by r55mur on Thursday 11th September 16:49
Also, if you're in Scotland, and it's an 'A' or 'B' road, and it has lights, and it was a thirty limit before 1986, it will be worth checking with the local authority that it does actually have a valid speed limit order on the road.
If you want more details of this, post here.
quote]
Go on then, if you insist, I'm printing all this off........ I should really be working though.....
Thanks for your time
Ross
Edited to say, Just looked at the ABD website, might be on a road to nowhere here.
The road in question is a 40mph dual carriageway, he turned right at a crossroads onto a 30 mph dual carriageway, one sign on left hand side.
The wording on the site mentions side road, Would a dual carriageway come under this definition?
>> Edited by r55mur on Thursday 11th September 16:49
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