The £22k 456 in the classifieds...
Discussion
Ad reckons it needs a repaint and the front drivers seat is well worn. Needs a new front shock aswell.
Who does the collective think? Genuine, scam, car hiding greater problems?
Im not looking to buy right now (LIOONY shut up :P ), but I have decided after much umming and ahhing that my next purchase will be either a 456 or 550 and it will be a keeper. It wont happen for another 12 months as I expect the market to drop even futher south for this metal to leave a few bargains in the months ahead. Like any big burchase I do though, I start my research well in advance. I do hardly any driving atm, so the 'Grale is tucked up in the garage lovely and warm, not losing any dosh so Im quite happy.
What im wondering is do folk think the above car is the first sign of buyers realising they have to drop prices seriously to get a sale on cars that arent perfect? What's with the worn drivers seat being a problem also? Most cars Ive known have had a worn drivers seat, never bothered me one bit. It is a simple recondition job for any half decent upholstering outfit. The paint job they reckon it needs though, due to stone chips etc. Well yes, but to discount your car a full £8k for that? Ive never resprayed a car due to stone chipped paintwork, just a patently silly thing to care about unless you are anal. Cars stone chip, sports cars with lower noses more than others. Is this guy saying the chipping is massively excessive?
Thoughts/comments?
Who does the collective think? Genuine, scam, car hiding greater problems?
Im not looking to buy right now (LIOONY shut up :P ), but I have decided after much umming and ahhing that my next purchase will be either a 456 or 550 and it will be a keeper. It wont happen for another 12 months as I expect the market to drop even futher south for this metal to leave a few bargains in the months ahead. Like any big burchase I do though, I start my research well in advance. I do hardly any driving atm, so the 'Grale is tucked up in the garage lovely and warm, not losing any dosh so Im quite happy.
What im wondering is do folk think the above car is the first sign of buyers realising they have to drop prices seriously to get a sale on cars that arent perfect? What's with the worn drivers seat being a problem also? Most cars Ive known have had a worn drivers seat, never bothered me one bit. It is a simple recondition job for any half decent upholstering outfit. The paint job they reckon it needs though, due to stone chips etc. Well yes, but to discount your car a full £8k for that? Ive never resprayed a car due to stone chipped paintwork, just a patently silly thing to care about unless you are anal. Cars stone chip, sports cars with lower noses more than others. Is this guy saying the chipping is massively excessive?
Thoughts/comments?
Scary!
Front shock can be sorted cheaply - *depending. about £100 each.
Darker colours - really do show up the Stone chips espcially front spoiler.
Seat Bolster on age of Car if not well looked after - can be rectified but not the main issue.
Say if this was last bought for 28k as it is an early example - but Manual (rare)and in a good colour.
Seems that 22k looked a bit of a great price if say belts and service and getting odd bits done would add 3-5k at worse.
So if it werent a scam I would have considered it.
I was scared senseless when I was buying mine - blood drains really rapidly when I parted with my saving to buy.
+ Points - It has been a wonderful Car, and If you buy and have a family it WILL BE a Keeper.
Good luck in your searches.
Front shock can be sorted cheaply - *depending. about £100 each.
Darker colours - really do show up the Stone chips espcially front spoiler.
Seat Bolster on age of Car if not well looked after - can be rectified but not the main issue.
Say if this was last bought for 28k as it is an early example - but Manual (rare)and in a good colour.
Seems that 22k looked a bit of a great price if say belts and service and getting odd bits done would add 3-5k at worse.
So if it werent a scam I would have considered it.
I was scared senseless when I was buying mine - blood drains really rapidly when I parted with my saving to buy.
+ Points - It has been a wonderful Car, and If you buy and have a family it WILL BE a Keeper.
Good luck in your searches.
I don't necessarily think it's a scam. Sure the guy can't spell, but it's a tatty old 456; 1994 makes it one of the very first cars and reading between the lines it probably needs a fair bit of tlc. The Foskers car http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/544934.htm looks a better bet to me.
Interesting responses so far, thanks chaps 
To be honest preference is for a Modificato anyway, so the basic game plan is to see where the prices are for Modificatos in 12 months time. With a weather eye on the market Im hoping/expecting that the benchmark £30k figure will be looming for them, same as early 550s.
Must say paintwork issues (chips, light scratches) and upholsterfy issues never bother me. They are issues that can be fixed at length in your own time.
To be honest preference is for a Modificato anyway, so the basic game plan is to see where the prices are for Modificatos in 12 months time. With a weather eye on the market Im hoping/expecting that the benchmark £30k figure will be looming for them, same as early 550s.
Must say paintwork issues (chips, light scratches) and upholsterfy issues never bother me. They are issues that can be fixed at length in your own time.
DJC said:
Interesting responses so far, thanks chaps
To be honest preference is for a Modificato anyway, so the basic game plan is to see where the prices are for Modificatos in 12 months time. With a weather eye on the market Im hoping/expecting that the benchmark £30k figure will be looming for them, same as early 550s.
Must say paintwork issues (chips, light scratches) and upholsterfy issues never bother me. They are issues that can be fixed at length in your own time.
You know David, I haven't seen a great deal of downward movement in these for at least a couple of years now. I'm not trying to talk up value (went through the pain barrier aaaagges ago) and only check when it comes to insurance renewal time. But I recall the M's were at 40K give or take a couple of years ago and they haven't moved much since. The 2002 manual is on at near 60K FFS! If you do see a downdraft, I guess it's because of general economic conditions rather than model specific. To be honest preference is for a Modificato anyway, so the basic game plan is to see where the prices are for Modificatos in 12 months time. With a weather eye on the market Im hoping/expecting that the benchmark £30k figure will be looming for them, same as early 550s.
Must say paintwork issues (chips, light scratches) and upholsterfy issues never bother me. They are issues that can be fixed at length in your own time.
PS Hey Kidwhizz
I have just read 456MGT's fantastic blog and wonderful pics of his car. I have to say that the running costs are about right if your looking after it.
I Budgeted 5k for the first year and thus far been very lucky and still have plenty left to the extent it will allow for next year - bearing in mind I had Cambelts and tensioners done as well.
Mine had FULL Ferrari Servicing - but I went with an independant in the end who has really looked after Me and the Car.
Insurance was an eye opener I recently "save" over £500 by changing.
I put this together on another site on good points and bad points on someone asking about it being a daily driver:
[note I never spell check nuffing]
The 456 as a daily driver, very possible - I know some use it everyday - only issue is in the UK and especially in London its very stop and start - The Car is a GT and IMHO should be used as such - it has immense ground eating capability bearing in mind there is 4 travelling. Of course the 612 is in another ball park and TBH I would look into one I suspect one day.
My 456 is a keeper though, the children love it and the Wife can drive it no issues also.
It is lot bigger than you first think, and parking it in London can be a strain - I do not leave it out in London unless it's on special occassions - e.g Went to the Ritz in London - wedding anniversary - and left it outside the Ritz "for a while". Will post pics up later.
All the above is the Feel good factor - I would say if you get a car that has been serviced well and the right colour Spec inside and out - you get a very user friendly car.
Of course there are people with issues - but I budgeted for that.
Do check Window Seals - if left stationary in the rain "some" DO get wet inside - near handbrake and at the bottom where the Carpet is "under the door" when Shut - I saw one or two of these issues when searching for mine.
The Modificato - "do a search" had these issues with window seals improved but apprarently not completely fixed. Actually most frameless window cars always let some water in my experience.
When looking owners or trader will say that they had it Jet washed and thus water in from that, do not beleive that! also check the Boot seals they can also leak as the rubber seals deteriorate or get trapped by users putting stuff in the boot "the back end compartment" I think in the states they call it the Trunk.
BUT in all honesty my car is dry as it ever coould be and it rains a lot in London - note I keep it under cover and away from elements, if you are in a dry area you will honestly no issues. One of our friends has just bought one in Saudi - I think window seals will be the least of his worries - if there a major or even small gaps then there will be annoying whistling. So When you test drive get the owner to shut up and turn off any muzak and listen for this .... noting that you are going to be travelling long distance this aspect in a GT maybe useful validate.
Also - if you are going to get the window mechanism fixed, there is two threads - one says expensive other says cheap but time consuming, either one make sure it works the window can shatter if incorrecly administered. note also when truning off the battery - worth have the car doors oopen as they drop an inch and then closing otherwise there is a risk you open the door and close with battery off and the window can hit the fame and ... less said the better.
Check the Exhaust - I was lucky I had a tubi - the 355 etc makes a great sound with Tubi fitted. The Tubi on the 456 is a more muted affair - more rumble, but for a GT it's just about right. Remember if you kids are in the Car they will tire of anything louder eventually, so if you don't have a tubi on the car initailly - compare it with one that has and assess it - my kids just love the sound of V8's more than my V12 thus the Tubi Stays .
I prefer the interior on the Modificato, and to be honest eerything is pretty well put together and pretty solid, though the paint/coverings they use on the ashtray and some centre console switch gear is rubberised paint of some sort and can be scratched easily - searching for mine I found this to be apparent not just for the 456 but most Fezza's for that time frame.
Kids - practical - yes definately. Initial thing was luggage space - the boot is ok enough for a push chair with hood and buggy board. and the some more stuff for the travelling. Whenever I inspected when searching I always thought it would never be enough - but its has been quite a revelation - it has more that say a Maserati 3200, lots of space in the Sides also.
We are small physically and thus they have leg room even with the car seats in place. Once the gow a bit taller the daytona seats will have booster seats and tehn after that they can have the actually seats themselves.
I noted that the Ferrari Booster seats I currently have as part of normal Ferrari car seats moves around a lot when I tried it - thus will not be using it when the eldest requires more space - I will need to source smoething different. Note though I have daytona Seats - not very common on a 456.
Back of seats - kids kick - when angry, crying, sleeping etc .. thus take there shoes off when inside the car and put them back on when they have gone through that stage - scuff marks on sabia / cream leather is a pain to clean.
Do we use it as a canteen - nope - we are carfeul with what we eat and drink - without spoiling enjoyment e.g. no blackcurrent, chewing gum etc.
Doors - the 456 has long doors and open Very wide - bear that in mid when kids get in and out - dings onto other cars lamp posts sidewalk / pavement etc kids always want to get out fast. Lay down the rules early and all will be fine.
In fact my eldest looks after the car more than me whilst the little one just goes "wow" on anything he sees.
It IS a family event everytime we drive it and as you seems to be embedded with the 355 - it would make a great compliment to your collection. in fact you have the best of all worlds. Mark on here has a great colour combo and owns both 456 and 355.
I have a set of luggage - its is schedoni - but not for my 456 - but it is extremely solid and hard wearing quailty - it all fits - and costs quite a bit. So if you get a set of luggage then there is 5 pieces for the WHOLE 456 set. I saw a nice set recently sold on Ebay for 456 specifically at around £1200 or more. try and insist that the luggage be there - but I have not seen many cars that have them complete.
Your already a F-Car owner - so you must appreciate the PPI etc ... little things can cost quite a bit so bear that in mind, service and tyres add up also. my £5k budget for all extra bits put me in good stead for anything unexpected - but I have been very very fortunate, everyone that inspects it says its a very good example - especially in the UK where cars can be changed over many times and the weather gets to them etc.
Stone Chips - yup it attract them all the time - its like stone will jump up and hit it - most annoying guese its also dependant on speed. - note this can be repaired so if you see this dont let that put u off. BUT the wheels should be pretty much immaculate, they are magnesium and have heard of issues that they are very hard to refurbish properly, but you may know this much more as I think the 355 has the mag wheels also?
Condition of centre caps on the car - slight cracks and ageing also the Wheel Bolts condition of those is important - it can also give away a few things - don't no what but I am sure other could comment. - they are very expensive to get knew - there is also threads to suggest that the rechroming or refrubising them is a NO NO as the process weakens them - please do some research on this.
Lights - makes sure everything works and there is a good illumination and also no condensdation, be picky so you know where you stand when buying - its horrid to buy and then find something out later, no harm in knowing as much as you can at least it can be all fixed, they - did I say check the sets electronics .. they should go back and forth, lumber support should move corretly up and down and tilt should work - check both seats and the memeory setting on the drivers side - check that they go forward when trying to access the back and tilted forward - watch the vendors face whilst doign this . this is can be an issue so really do test this.
The handbrake should be tested - the mechanism I say on two cars was abd and not much good on mine either - I had it fixed not hard but bear that in mind.
Check that the tyre pressure is good on all wheels - also when "travelling" listen for flat spots.
I have tried to include stuff that most people dont talk about or would not affect them as kids not involved, apologise if some thigns are very obvious and irrelevant to your knowledge or needs.
Also DO NOT let anyone or anything put you off - set a budget and small surplus fund - stick to it. Summing up the 456 is by far the best buy "family Ferrari" at the moment. Even with all the myths etc at the sort of prices they are going for I found that money spent on one did not mean my life would be over if it all went pete tong "wrong".
Wwhen the kids seats are seen by people they really smile and when the see kids in the back of a Ferrari they think how cute .. also the colour and shape allows you to be discrete but respected.
just to give you an Idea - I have gone shopping in mine a lot - yes park in two bays trolley dings are always a worry, I we go for a drive a lot and when I first bought one - everyone wanted to be inside on the first ride, only a few know how many Little ones can really fit inside a 456 2+2 - would hate to tell you must be a world record. Should have taken Pics.
I feel this post has a slight twang of negative - It should not be viewed as such - there 100% positive everytime the Family enjoy the car.
If you have any more questions - I may be able to assist.
Doh - hifi system - seems serious after thought listening - we actualy have an alpine unit - the original has been removed - CD Changer and CD in front.
I am sure this is important as "we" have kids ;0) the Alpine unit compliments all the same colours and is very usuable - one this I found out by true accident is that the TOM TOM 720 can be place in front of the Dials just behind the steering wheel without obscuring anything - it dropped in there by accident - and wow what a great place for it to be.
The Speakers are very clean and very solid - the kids like their music on long journeys and i am really into B&O equipment hence the number plate and being honest the Speakers are fine for a car - But I have an Ipod connected via a sender - not ideal but covers the issues of having to change / Carry lots of CDs though the reception quality does suffer a tad. Curerntly I am reluctant to mess with the ICE - rather spend the money on something tyres as it is fine as it is. Plus I hate to fiddle with Stuff once driving.
kindest regards Aamir.
I Budgeted 5k for the first year and thus far been very lucky and still have plenty left to the extent it will allow for next year - bearing in mind I had Cambelts and tensioners done as well.
Mine had FULL Ferrari Servicing - but I went with an independant in the end who has really looked after Me and the Car.
Insurance was an eye opener I recently "save" over £500 by changing.
I put this together on another site on good points and bad points on someone asking about it being a daily driver:
[note I never spell check nuffing]
The 456 as a daily driver, very possible - I know some use it everyday - only issue is in the UK and especially in London its very stop and start - The Car is a GT and IMHO should be used as such - it has immense ground eating capability bearing in mind there is 4 travelling. Of course the 612 is in another ball park and TBH I would look into one I suspect one day.
My 456 is a keeper though, the children love it and the Wife can drive it no issues also.
It is lot bigger than you first think, and parking it in London can be a strain - I do not leave it out in London unless it's on special occassions - e.g Went to the Ritz in London - wedding anniversary - and left it outside the Ritz "for a while". Will post pics up later.
All the above is the Feel good factor - I would say if you get a car that has been serviced well and the right colour Spec inside and out - you get a very user friendly car.
Of course there are people with issues - but I budgeted for that.
Do check Window Seals - if left stationary in the rain "some" DO get wet inside - near handbrake and at the bottom where the Carpet is "under the door" when Shut - I saw one or two of these issues when searching for mine.
The Modificato - "do a search" had these issues with window seals improved but apprarently not completely fixed. Actually most frameless window cars always let some water in my experience.
When looking owners or trader will say that they had it Jet washed and thus water in from that, do not beleive that! also check the Boot seals they can also leak as the rubber seals deteriorate or get trapped by users putting stuff in the boot "the back end compartment" I think in the states they call it the Trunk.
BUT in all honesty my car is dry as it ever coould be and it rains a lot in London - note I keep it under cover and away from elements, if you are in a dry area you will honestly no issues. One of our friends has just bought one in Saudi - I think window seals will be the least of his worries - if there a major or even small gaps then there will be annoying whistling. So When you test drive get the owner to shut up and turn off any muzak and listen for this .... noting that you are going to be travelling long distance this aspect in a GT maybe useful validate.
Also - if you are going to get the window mechanism fixed, there is two threads - one says expensive other says cheap but time consuming, either one make sure it works the window can shatter if incorrecly administered. note also when truning off the battery - worth have the car doors oopen as they drop an inch and then closing otherwise there is a risk you open the door and close with battery off and the window can hit the fame and ... less said the better.
Check the Exhaust - I was lucky I had a tubi - the 355 etc makes a great sound with Tubi fitted. The Tubi on the 456 is a more muted affair - more rumble, but for a GT it's just about right. Remember if you kids are in the Car they will tire of anything louder eventually, so if you don't have a tubi on the car initailly - compare it with one that has and assess it - my kids just love the sound of V8's more than my V12 thus the Tubi Stays .
I prefer the interior on the Modificato, and to be honest eerything is pretty well put together and pretty solid, though the paint/coverings they use on the ashtray and some centre console switch gear is rubberised paint of some sort and can be scratched easily - searching for mine I found this to be apparent not just for the 456 but most Fezza's for that time frame.
Kids - practical - yes definately. Initial thing was luggage space - the boot is ok enough for a push chair with hood and buggy board. and the some more stuff for the travelling. Whenever I inspected when searching I always thought it would never be enough - but its has been quite a revelation - it has more that say a Maserati 3200, lots of space in the Sides also.
We are small physically and thus they have leg room even with the car seats in place. Once the gow a bit taller the daytona seats will have booster seats and tehn after that they can have the actually seats themselves.
I noted that the Ferrari Booster seats I currently have as part of normal Ferrari car seats moves around a lot when I tried it - thus will not be using it when the eldest requires more space - I will need to source smoething different. Note though I have daytona Seats - not very common on a 456.
Back of seats - kids kick - when angry, crying, sleeping etc .. thus take there shoes off when inside the car and put them back on when they have gone through that stage - scuff marks on sabia / cream leather is a pain to clean.
Do we use it as a canteen - nope - we are carfeul with what we eat and drink - without spoiling enjoyment e.g. no blackcurrent, chewing gum etc.
Doors - the 456 has long doors and open Very wide - bear that in mid when kids get in and out - dings onto other cars lamp posts sidewalk / pavement etc kids always want to get out fast. Lay down the rules early and all will be fine.
In fact my eldest looks after the car more than me whilst the little one just goes "wow" on anything he sees.
It IS a family event everytime we drive it and as you seems to be embedded with the 355 - it would make a great compliment to your collection. in fact you have the best of all worlds. Mark on here has a great colour combo and owns both 456 and 355.
I have a set of luggage - its is schedoni - but not for my 456 - but it is extremely solid and hard wearing quailty - it all fits - and costs quite a bit. So if you get a set of luggage then there is 5 pieces for the WHOLE 456 set. I saw a nice set recently sold on Ebay for 456 specifically at around £1200 or more. try and insist that the luggage be there - but I have not seen many cars that have them complete.
Your already a F-Car owner - so you must appreciate the PPI etc ... little things can cost quite a bit so bear that in mind, service and tyres add up also. my £5k budget for all extra bits put me in good stead for anything unexpected - but I have been very very fortunate, everyone that inspects it says its a very good example - especially in the UK where cars can be changed over many times and the weather gets to them etc.
Stone Chips - yup it attract them all the time - its like stone will jump up and hit it - most annoying guese its also dependant on speed. - note this can be repaired so if you see this dont let that put u off. BUT the wheels should be pretty much immaculate, they are magnesium and have heard of issues that they are very hard to refurbish properly, but you may know this much more as I think the 355 has the mag wheels also?
Condition of centre caps on the car - slight cracks and ageing also the Wheel Bolts condition of those is important - it can also give away a few things - don't no what but I am sure other could comment. - they are very expensive to get knew - there is also threads to suggest that the rechroming or refrubising them is a NO NO as the process weakens them - please do some research on this.
Lights - makes sure everything works and there is a good illumination and also no condensdation, be picky so you know where you stand when buying - its horrid to buy and then find something out later, no harm in knowing as much as you can at least it can be all fixed, they - did I say check the sets electronics .. they should go back and forth, lumber support should move corretly up and down and tilt should work - check both seats and the memeory setting on the drivers side - check that they go forward when trying to access the back and tilted forward - watch the vendors face whilst doign this . this is can be an issue so really do test this.
The handbrake should be tested - the mechanism I say on two cars was abd and not much good on mine either - I had it fixed not hard but bear that in mind.
Check that the tyre pressure is good on all wheels - also when "travelling" listen for flat spots.
I have tried to include stuff that most people dont talk about or would not affect them as kids not involved, apologise if some thigns are very obvious and irrelevant to your knowledge or needs.
Also DO NOT let anyone or anything put you off - set a budget and small surplus fund - stick to it. Summing up the 456 is by far the best buy "family Ferrari" at the moment. Even with all the myths etc at the sort of prices they are going for I found that money spent on one did not mean my life would be over if it all went pete tong "wrong".
Wwhen the kids seats are seen by people they really smile and when the see kids in the back of a Ferrari they think how cute .. also the colour and shape allows you to be discrete but respected.
just to give you an Idea - I have gone shopping in mine a lot - yes park in two bays trolley dings are always a worry, I we go for a drive a lot and when I first bought one - everyone wanted to be inside on the first ride, only a few know how many Little ones can really fit inside a 456 2+2 - would hate to tell you must be a world record. Should have taken Pics.
I feel this post has a slight twang of negative - It should not be viewed as such - there 100% positive everytime the Family enjoy the car.
If you have any more questions - I may be able to assist.
Doh - hifi system - seems serious after thought listening - we actualy have an alpine unit - the original has been removed - CD Changer and CD in front.
I am sure this is important as "we" have kids ;0) the Alpine unit compliments all the same colours and is very usuable - one this I found out by true accident is that the TOM TOM 720 can be place in front of the Dials just behind the steering wheel without obscuring anything - it dropped in there by accident - and wow what a great place for it to be.
The Speakers are very clean and very solid - the kids like their music on long journeys and i am really into B&O equipment hence the number plate and being honest the Speakers are fine for a car - But I have an Ipod connected via a sender - not ideal but covers the issues of having to change / Carry lots of CDs though the reception quality does suffer a tad. Curerntly I am reluctant to mess with the ICE - rather spend the money on something tyres as it is fine as it is. Plus I hate to fiddle with Stuff once driving.
kindest regards Aamir.
Edited by kidwhizz on Wednesday 13th August 11:50
burriana said:
DJC said:
Im hoping/expecting that the benchmark £30k figure will be looming for ... early 550s.
Not in the next 12 months I'm afraid ... but I would be very pleased to be proven wrong 
We shall see.
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