Something's up with my brake (Avid Juicy 5)

[beanbag]

I'm not sure what's going on but coming back from the trails, I noticed my back wheel locking up a lot and there being very movement on the lever.

As we reached the bottom, I noticed brake fluid spilling out of the cover edge!

I wiped it up wondering if it would leak more but nothing came out, however the brake now offers me only "on" or "off" with no give meaning it's impossible to use.

Any ideas what it could be?!!?

P.S. Here's a pic of the trails in Austria....amazing


(Apologies for the crappy camera phone. The other half took the camera on holiday with her! Could you believe it! 0

[GHW]

At a guess, I'd say the brake fluid's getting hot and expanding (hence the locking on and the fluid spewing out of the reservoir). One of my mates has a Giant something-or-other that loves to do the same trick whenever it's faced with some heavy braking on a big descent.

When was the last time the brake fluid was replaced?

[carter711]

Yea sounds like the fluid has expanded and leaked, a good flush through with new fluid should fix it.
Check to see that no fluid has contaminated the pads, if they have buy some new ones.

[P-Jay]

Yeah, you've cooked that bad boy. Teach you for trailing rear brake on the way down!

If you bleed them with 5.1 and use organic pads (asuming you're not already) should sort that right out.

Nice looking trail.

Edited by P-Jay on Friday 15th August 15:28

[beanbag]

Cheers for the info guys. Could well be the fluid has overdone it.....the fluid itself is the age of the bike which is just over 2 years old now.

How easy is it to replace? If I do go ahead and replace the fluid, I've been told that an idea would be to upgrade the hoses to goodridge hoses. Is it worth the cash and effort or should I just continue with the stock hoses and simply replace the fluid?

[-C-]

Avid actually recommend not doing the Goodridge upgrade, as they rely on a small amount of give in the cable to help modulation. The Goodridge cables will make the brakes feel very wooden by comparison...

Get yourself an Avid bleed kit & flush it through the system - should be fine.

[P-Jay]

beanbag said:

Cheers for the info guys. Could well be the fluid has overdone it.....the fluid itself is the age of the bike which is just over 2 years old now.

How easy is it to replace? If I do go ahead and replace the fluid, I've been told that an idea would be to upgrade the hoses to goodridge hoses. Is it worth the cash and effort or should I just continue with the stock hoses and simply replace the fluid?

You can buy a kit easily enough that comes with everything you need (including enough DOT 4 fluid for a couple of full bleeds) it's a bit of a palava but if you read the instruction carefully everytime as it's easy to fall into the trap that it's easy (which it is) and forget a stage, you'll be fine. In reference to my earlier comments about using DOT 5.1, if the brakes have worked fine for two years on DOT 4 I wouldn't bother.

[beanbag]

P-Jay said:

beanbag said:

Cheers for the info guys. Could well be the fluid has overdone it.....the fluid itself is the age of the bike which is just over 2 years old now.

How easy is it to replace? If I do go ahead and replace the fluid, I've been told that an idea would be to upgrade the hoses to goodridge hoses. Is it worth the cash and effort or should I just continue with the stock hoses and simply replace the fluid?

You can buy a kit easily enough that comes with everything you need (including enough DOT 4 fluid for a couple of full bleeds) it's a bit of a palava but if you read the instruction carefully everytime as it's easy to fall into the trap that it's easy (which it is) and forget a stage, you'll be fine. In reference to my earlier comments about using DOT 5.1, if the brakes have worked fine for two years on DOT 4 I wouldn't bother.

What's the difference between DOT 5.1 and DOT 4?

P.S. I won't bother with the Goodridge upgrade then....it's quite pricey anyway and I'd rather put the money towards replacing my Fox Triad shock to a Fox RP23 on the next major service

[P-Jay]

beanbag said:

P-Jay said:

beanbag said:

Cheers for the info guys. Could well be the fluid has overdone it.....the fluid itself is the age of the bike which is just over 2 years old now.

How easy is it to replace? If I do go ahead and replace the fluid, I've been told that an idea would be to upgrade the hoses to goodridge hoses. Is it worth the cash and effort or should I just continue with the stock hoses and simply replace the fluid?

You can buy a kit easily enough that comes with everything you need (including enough DOT 4 fluid for a couple of full bleeds) it's a bit of a palava but if you read the instruction carefully everytime as it's easy to fall into the trap that it's easy (which it is) and forget a stage, you'll be fine. In reference to my earlier comments about using DOT 5.1, if the brakes have worked fine for two years on DOT 4 I wouldn't bother.

What's the difference between DOT 5.1 and DOT 4?

P.S. I won't bother with the Goodridge upgrade then....it's quite pricey anyway and I'd rather put the money towards replacing my Fox Triad shock to a Fox RP23 on the next major service

My mate's got Goodridges on the Juicy Ultimates on his DH bike, sweet jebus they're ether on, or off. Anyway. Juicies take the same brake fluid as Cars and Motorbikes. DOT 4 is your common or garden brake fluid that's in 99% of road cars and bikes. DOT 5.1 is racing stuff, it's able to take much higher temps without braking down (boiling) but doesn't last as long and costs about 3 times as much, which still isn't fortunes. Comes as standard on all new Avid Juicy 7's (carbons, ultimate etc) and Codes. It's good if you're a bit of a DH wimp like me and spend more time on the brakes than off. Did nearly a full week in Morzine / Les Gets last month without needing to bleed them.

[pawsmcgraw]

A usual thing i do is let a tad of air into the lines on Avids, or let a bit of fluid out.They come from the factory pretty solid.I've also found the bleed bolts are nearly always under tourqed and draw air/weep after time.The system they use for assembling them and filling them with fluid must be real good.

[mk1fan]

I've got Goodridge hoses on my hybrid Code / Ultimate set up and they're ace still got loads of modulation. It's all about technique.

If you're 'heavy' on the brakes - and it sounds like you are - then I'd consider them - other brands are available - as it's better to have brakes than don't disapear half way down.

As for DOT 5.1 and DOT 4. I only use 5.1. Avid no supply all their hydraulic brakes with 5.1 except the Three. Again, someone who is 'heavy' on their brakes should use it over DOT 4 as the small amount of fluid (about 15ml) in the system can be boiled very easily.

Organic pads don't heat up as much as sintered but, ultimately, they don't work as well. Personally, I use sintered on my 203 and 185 set ups and organic on my 160 and 140 set ups (to prevent heat induced warping).

Edited by mk1fan on Saturday 16th August 14:43

[GHW]

Same as mk1fan here - I'm using sintered pads in my 205/185mm Juicy 5 setup, and they had the power to cope with everything I threw at them in the Alps. (a non-stop run of the Grand Conche did leave them a wee bit squishy at the end though, so they'll get DOT 5.1 in them the next time I service them)

[beanbag]

Hi chaps. Thanks for the feedback. Some pretty interesting and useful advice there.

I'm going to order a bleed kit and bleed the brakes myself. I did it on my motorcycle and other than being more fiddly on a bike, I don't see it being tough to do. I'm however curious, if the bleed kit comes with DOT 5.1 or 4?

Also, it's interesting that this never happened before, however I was doing some particularly fast and technical stuff on Friday which might have caused the liquid to boil. I just didn't realise how much I was using the brakes!!!!

[P-Jay]

beanbag said:

Hi chaps. Thanks for the feedback. Some pretty interesting and useful advice there.

I'm going to order a bleed kit and bleed the brakes myself. I did it on my motorcycle and other than being more fiddly on a bike, I don't see it being tough to do. I'm however curious, if the bleed kit comes with DOT 5.1 or 4?

Also, it's interesting that this never happened before, however I was doing some particularly fast and technical stuff on Friday which might have caused the liquid to boil. I just didn't realise how much I was using the brakes!!!!

Bleed kit comes with DOT 4, but you can get a small amount of DOT 5.1 a halfrauds for next to nowt.

I disagree with some of the comments above RE: Sinterd pads. I find Organics more powerfull and have a better feel. Shame usuall uk weather eats them alive. Just my opinion.

[beanbag]

An update on my problem. After seeing the price of the bleed kit (£25!!!!), and finding out I can get my brakes bled for me at the bike shop for €25 with DOT 5.1, I'm going to go for that.

However.....the chap from the shop told me for an extra €100, I can a complete Goodridge hose kit upgrade.....so, €125 (about £100) all in for the hose upgrade and total service. (No new pads, although mine have plenty of life left in them).

Is it worth it or should I just get the brakes bled....I'm in limbo here....not sure what to do....

[-C-]

No. Learn to use what you have properly. Stop dragging the brakes which is whats causing the overheating in the first place.

[P-Jay]

I wouldn’t bother with the hose kit. It doesn't help with heat build up, in fact many think the opposite is true as metal transfers heat better, moving it from the calliper to the lever. Braided hoses are to reduce a little sponge in the system by not letting the hoses expand when you brake.

-C- Makes a point, really we should all ride with the brakes totally off, brake HARD just before whatever you have to slow down for and back off them as you deal with the obstacle. But sometimes you need to manage speed, or we just don't want too. It's only a hobby after all.

TBH if it was me I'd buy the kit. The fluid you have now lasted you two years so DOT 4 should be sweet and you never know when you need to be able to do somthing short-notice, usually I find a fault on my bike on Sunday Morning as I wheel it out to the Van, better to be able to fix it yourself than cancel a ride to have to wait for the LBS to open on Monday.

[beanbag]

-C- said:

No. Learn to use what you have properly. Stop dragging the brakes which is whats causing the overheating in the first place.

If you are heading down a mountain on a trail with rocks the size of boulders at 60kph, you would be using your brakes too!!!

[neil_bolton]

beanbag said:

-C- said:

No. Learn to use what you have properly. Stop dragging the brakes which is whats causing the overheating in the first place.

If you are heading down a mountain on a trail with rocks the size of boulders at 60kph, you would be using your brakes too!!!

I must admit that I agree - its all very well saying get off the brakes, but we all have to use them, and certainly place like the Alps place a pretty high demand on brake systems - especially when all you do is pick up speed!

[-C-]

beanbag said:

-C- said:

No. Learn to use what you have properly. Stop dragging the brakes which is whats causing the overheating in the first place.

If you are heading down a mountain on a trail with rocks the size of boulders at 60kph, you would be using your brakes too!!!

It's not about using your brakes, its about dragging your brakes...

Using them to slow down in sections is fine, before corners etc but dragging them all the way down the trail/track/fireroad etc will boil pretty much any brake out there.

In a non condescending way, you need to learn to ride properly & brake properly. I'm not saying 'just don't use them' it will take you some time to build up the confidence to stay off them when you would normally be dragging to regulate your speed. However it will make you a better rider and your ability to carry far higher speeds through certain sections will start to come through.

Edited by -C- on Monday 18th August 11:36