New engine upgrades for the griffith 500?

[panic]

What's the LATEST news in 'real world' engine upgrades for the griffith 500? (...and for 'real world' i mean: reliable power increase around 30/40hp at not more then 3.000 pounds cost...)

Thanks/Giuseppe

(all previous electrical 'gremlins' problems have been worked out of the way...)

[V8 GRF]

V8 Enhancements new exhaust manifolds give an easy 25bhp 'out of the box' (£2,200 + VAT)

www.v8enhancements.co.uk

[Chimjunkie]

V8 GRF said:

V8 Enhancements new exhaust manifolds give an easy 25bhp 'out of the box' (£2,200 + VAT)

www.v8enhancements.co.uk

I am facinated by his new manifolds. But cant help wondering how much bhp/torque is gained from the manifolds over the result of just removing the cat and remapping?

[Chimjunkie]

panic said:

What's the LATEST news in 'real world' engine upgrades for the griffith 500? (...and for 'real world' i mean: reliable power increase around 30/40hp at not more then 3.000 pounds cost...)

Thanks/Giuseppe

(all previous electrical 'gremlins' problems have been worked out of the way...)

If you have a standard 500 engine then ported large bore inlet manifold/trumpets, larger plenum throttle, improved afm, remapped ecu, ACT smooth bore elbow and a Stealth cam from V8D is my favored route to getting 300 bhp within the £3000 budget. More bhp from a wilder cam, but the Stealth cam is so smooth and huge mid range grunt

[dnb]

There are better ways than that for getting over 300bhp

Aftermarket ECU (Emerald/MS/VEMS/Omex etc...) including mapped ignition, H404 cam and a sensible intake upgrade - such as the V8 Enhancements twin plenum that's under development on my car, or the one Clive's currently working on and an increase in static compression will get you quite a long way. It's very close to the £3k budget, but may end up being a couple of hundred over depending how much paid labour is involved.

My car in this configuration has made 350 ftlbs and 315 bhp while still having a few teething troubles. Like a slipping clutch, slight misfire and a leaking brake servo.

[clive f]

Chimjunkie said:

V8 GRF said:

V8 Enhancements new exhaust manifolds give an easy 25bhp 'out of the box' (£2,200 + VAT)

www.v8enhancements.co.uk

I am facinated by his new manifolds. But cant help wondering how much bhp/torque is gained from the manifolds over the result of just removing the cat and remapping?

when doing dyno testing for my decat pipes, we found that by removing the main cat gave an extra 5bhp , the manifolds for both tests were already decatted.
so when you compare the results, the new manifolds when tested against the main cat gave an extra 20hp at the top and 15 to 20hp right throught the rev range, so it would be fair to say that over the decat then the manifolds give a minimum 15bhp.
this is all without remapping, as the intitial tests were carried out on the lucas ecu, and it was pointless to go to the expense of remapping this, as my intention was always to go with the aftermarket ecu anyway, but further mapping would only show increased gains, as shown in the later test results.

Edited by clive f on Monday 18th August 20:36

[Chimjunkie]

Thanks Clive. Want to keep my car catted for MOT and smell reasons. Would love a set of your manifolds just for the appearance! Let us know when you have a catted solution for £2k all in

[panic]

Chimjunkie said:

panic said:

What's the LATEST news in 'real world' engine upgrades for the griffith 500? (...and for 'real world' i mean: reliable power increase around 30/40hp at not more then 3.000 pounds cost...)

Thanks/Giuseppe

(all previous electrical 'gremlins' problems have been worked out of the way...)

If you have a standard 500 engine then ported large bore inlet manifold/trumpets, larger plenum throttle, improved afm, remapped ecu, ACT smooth bore elbow and a Stealth cam from V8D is my favored route to getting 300 bhp within the £3000 budget. More bhp from a wilder cam, but the Stealth cam is so smooth and huge mid range grunt

My griffith is decatted, has act tripple inlet, carbon plenum, larger airmeter, improved carbon trumpets and tornado remapped chip on stock ecu box, cherry bomb act exhaust...the engine goes strong up to 5.500rpms, it only misses more grunt over that limit...
What about a larger capacity blk with lighter forged pistons and a better then stock cam?
BTW, i'm also thinking about a carb swap and (finally) drop in the garbage pot the stock ecu box...

[clive f]

If you`ve got triple throttle bodies, then you are capable of getting more air in, but to optimise on this I would go for an emerald, omex or kms ecu with mapped ignition as well, also look at ways of feeding air to the plenum that doesn`t involve lots of bends in the intake pipe

[panic]

clive f said:

.... also look at ways of feeding air to the plenum that doesn`t involve lots of bends in the intake pipe

...Like what, Clive?

[virgil]

Has anyone built a twin entry plenumn that feeds from the front...the only issue is the feed pipes will always have to route over the exhaust somewhere....

[Del 203]

virgil said:

Has anyone built a twin entry plenumn that feeds from the front...the only issue is the feed pipes will always have to route over the exhaust somewhere....

I think Clive or Joo have.... Or perhaps they colluded on a twin entry


OT: phone playing up in answer to your txt, possibly, will speak to the Mrs & make sure i have nothing planned

[V8 GRF]

virgil said:

Has anyone built a twin entry plenumn that feeds from the front...the only issue is the feed pipes will always have to route over the exhaust somewhere....

I've seen a picture of one somewhere I'm sure.

Yes I knew I had....

Clive is responsible I believe

Edited by V8 GRF on Tuesday 19th August 11:32

[steve-V8s]

Slightly off topic but relevant.
For those of you who are taking the cats out and also want to Sprint Hillclimb or anything else MSA controlled it may be worth remembering that it looks as if Cats will soon be a requirement on all cars built after a specific date. The rule has not yet been ratified but may be worth considering in your plans.

[clive f]

panic said:

clive f said:

.... also look at ways of feeding air to the plenum that doesn`t involve lots of bends in the intake pipe

...Like what, Clive?

plenum design and other areas of the air intake are still being developed by myself and Jools, Joo himself has his 8 throttle body which is very interesting.
getting the air to whatever style of plenum and trying to keep its path as straight as possible, less restrictions, and as cool as possible is a key factor, and the griff just isn`t the right car to achieve this on very easily, for example, the front edge of the bonnet when closing takes up so much room at the front of the engine bay, hence why the inlet pipe has so many bends in it to allow the bonnet to close.
you could do many things if you where prepared to start cutting your body work about, but who would be keen enough to carry this out, and have the expense of re sprays ect.
a more simple way around this might be to use as big a pipe as possible, and cut a hole in the inner wing in front of the wheel arch and have a cone filter on the end of the pipe down below the headlight pod, drawing air from the gap along side the radiator on the passenger side.
we hope to be trying a few things on the dyno this winter and will let you know as soon as we have some back to back test results.

Edited by clive f on Tuesday 19th August 12:23

[virgil]

Del 203 said:

virgil said:

Has anyone built a twin entry plenumn that feeds from the front...the only issue is the feed pipes will always have to route over the exhaust somewhere....

I think Clive or Joo have.... Or perhaps they colluded on a twin entry


OT: phone playing up in answer to your txt, possibly, will speak to the Mrs & make sure i have nothing planned

OK, no worries - flying in from Amsterdam so won't be back 'till around 8:00-8:30pm...so if that's too late, then fair enough....

[dnb]

V8 GRF said:

virgil said:

Has anyone built a twin entry plenumn that feeds from the front...the only issue is the feed pipes will always have to route over the exhaust somewhere....

I've seen a picture of one somewhere I'm sure.

Yes I knew I had....

Clive is responsible I believe

That would be the one I designed and Clive worked a lot of magic on to make it actually fit in a Griff! It's currently sat in my car being tested.

It gave gains of well over 50 bhp on my car when first tested at Joos, even with a few engine gremlins and poor intake ducting. At the Growl, the engine problems resurfaced in the form of a dead clutch.

[trackcar]

dnb said:

V8 GRF said:

virgil said:

Has anyone built a twin entry plenumn that feeds from the front...the only issue is the feed pipes will always have to route over the exhaust somewhere....

I've seen a picture of one somewhere I'm sure.

Yes I knew I had....

Clive is responsible I believe

That would be the one I designed and Clive worked a lot of magic on to make it actually fit in a Griff! It's currently sat in my car being tested.

It gave gains of well over 50 bhp on my car when first tested at Joos, even with a few engine gremlins and poor intake ducting. At the Growl, the engine problems resurfaced in the form of a dead clutch.

Did you manage to sort that unusual hp curve out in the end Dave?

[dnb]

Yes! It was a combination of a leaking brake servo - it was connected to one plenum only, and it unbalanced them more than the balancer pipe could cope with at low RPM, but obviously was insignificant at high RPM - and probably the start of my clutch issues.