Wall Lights in New House - Wiring question/problem
Discussion
Moved into a new house last week, previous owners took all three wall lights. Not sure why, but hey-ho. Anyway, Mrs Maul chose some new ones and I set about connecting them up - previous owner just left connector blocks sticking out of wall with wires connected in.
Fitted first light and tested it which worked fine, fitted second which worked fine. When I went to fit the third light, I noticed that the old connector block had two live wires twisted together and two neutrals twisted together and both connected in to the block. There were also two earths twisted together, neither of which were connected into the old block.
I connected the third light up, including the earth and all three wall lights worked fine....but..... all of the upstairs lights stopped working??? None of the breakers refused to go back on, master didn't trip, nothing else at all. Disconnected third light and all upstairs lights work again. Last night, all the bulbs in the remaining two new fitting blew at once when I switched them on???
Previous owner says 2nd circuit on light fitting is to do with the wiring for an alarm, but he didnt understand as he always pays for an electrician to do everything?
Any idea why one light would have two lives, neutrals and earths and why it would stop the upstairs circuit working (I assume they are linked in some way, but no idea why or what to do about it)
Ta
Ted
PS I did flick the breakers each time I fitted/tested a light!
Fitted first light and tested it which worked fine, fitted second which worked fine. When I went to fit the third light, I noticed that the old connector block had two live wires twisted together and two neutrals twisted together and both connected in to the block. There were also two earths twisted together, neither of which were connected into the old block.
I connected the third light up, including the earth and all three wall lights worked fine....but..... all of the upstairs lights stopped working??? None of the breakers refused to go back on, master didn't trip, nothing else at all. Disconnected third light and all upstairs lights work again. Last night, all the bulbs in the remaining two new fitting blew at once when I switched them on???
Previous owner says 2nd circuit on light fitting is to do with the wiring for an alarm, but he didnt understand as he always pays for an electrician to do everything?
Any idea why one light would have two lives, neutrals and earths and why it would stop the upstairs circuit working (I assume they are linked in some way, but no idea why or what to do about it)
Ta
Ted
PS I did flick the breakers each time I fitted/tested a light!
TedMaul said:
Moved into a new house last week, previous owners took all three wall lights. Not sure why, but hey-ho. Anyway, Mrs Maul chose some new ones and I set about connecting them up - previous owner just left connector blocks sticking out of wall with wires connected in.
Fitted first light and tested it which worked fine, fitted second which worked fine. When I went to fit the third light, I noticed that the old connector block had two live wires twisted together and two neutrals twisted together and both connected in to the block. There were also two earths twisted together, neither of which were connected into the old block.
I connected the third light up, including the earth and all three wall lights worked fine....but..... all of the upstairs lights stopped working??? None of the breakers refused to go back on, master didn't trip, nothing else at all. Disconnected third light and all upstairs lights work again. Last night, all the bulbs in the remaining two new fitting blew at once when I switched them on???
Previous owner says 2nd circuit on light fitting is to do with the wiring for an alarm, but he didnt understand as he always pays for an electrician to do everything?
Any idea why one light would have two lives, neutrals and earths and why it would stop the upstairs circuit working (I assume they are linked in some way, but no idea why or what to do about it)
Ta
Ted
PS I did flick the breakers each time I fitted/tested a light!
#Fitted first light and tested it which worked fine, fitted second which worked fine. When I went to fit the third light, I noticed that the old connector block had two live wires twisted together and two neutrals twisted together and both connected in to the block. There were also two earths twisted together, neither of which were connected into the old block.
I connected the third light up, including the earth and all three wall lights worked fine....but..... all of the upstairs lights stopped working??? None of the breakers refused to go back on, master didn't trip, nothing else at all. Disconnected third light and all upstairs lights work again. Last night, all the bulbs in the remaining two new fitting blew at once when I switched them on???
Previous owner says 2nd circuit on light fitting is to do with the wiring for an alarm, but he didnt understand as he always pays for an electrician to do everything?
Any idea why one light would have two lives, neutrals and earths and why it would stop the upstairs circuit working (I assume they are linked in some way, but no idea why or what to do about it)
Ta
Ted
PS I did flick the breakers each time I fitted/tested a light!
Its not unknown for people to use colourd wire for other uses- so the earth might not be an earth, eve though it is coulured like an earth. If the other two lights you fitted just needed two wires, these are what I would use. If they had three, then I would use a multimeter and measure the resistance on the wires between light 2 and 3. What i'm getting at is one of those wires you connected up is sending power straight to earth, so no upstairs light gets power. If you dont connect it up, and protect it with insulating tape, you'll be fine.
williamp said:
TedMaul said:
Moved into a new house last week, previous owners took all three wall lights. Not sure why, but hey-ho. Anyway, Mrs Maul chose some new ones and I set about connecting them up - previous owner just left connector blocks sticking out of wall with wires connected in.
Fitted first light and tested it which worked fine, fitted second which worked fine. When I went to fit the third light, I noticed that the old connector block had two live wires twisted together and two neutrals twisted together and both connected in to the block. There were also two earths twisted together, neither of which were connected into the old block.
I connected the third light up, including the earth and all three wall lights worked fine....but..... all of the upstairs lights stopped working??? None of the breakers refused to go back on, master didn't trip, nothing else at all. Disconnected third light and all upstairs lights work again. Last night, all the bulbs in the remaining two new fitting blew at once when I switched them on???
Previous owner says 2nd circuit on light fitting is to do with the wiring for an alarm, but he didnt understand as he always pays for an electrician to do everything?
Any idea why one light would have two lives, neutrals and earths and why it would stop the upstairs circuit working (I assume they are linked in some way, but no idea why or what to do about it)
Ta
Ted
PS I did flick the breakers each time I fitted/tested a light!
#Fitted first light and tested it which worked fine, fitted second which worked fine. When I went to fit the third light, I noticed that the old connector block had two live wires twisted together and two neutrals twisted together and both connected in to the block. There were also two earths twisted together, neither of which were connected into the old block.
I connected the third light up, including the earth and all three wall lights worked fine....but..... all of the upstairs lights stopped working??? None of the breakers refused to go back on, master didn't trip, nothing else at all. Disconnected third light and all upstairs lights work again. Last night, all the bulbs in the remaining two new fitting blew at once when I switched them on???
Previous owner says 2nd circuit on light fitting is to do with the wiring for an alarm, but he didnt understand as he always pays for an electrician to do everything?
Any idea why one light would have two lives, neutrals and earths and why it would stop the upstairs circuit working (I assume they are linked in some way, but no idea why or what to do about it)
Ta
Ted
PS I did flick the breakers each time I fitted/tested a light!
Its not unknown for people to use colourd wire for other uses- so the earth might not be an earth, eve though it is coulured like an earth. If the other two lights you fitted just needed two wires, these are what I would use. If they had three, then I would use a multimeter and measure the resistance on the wires between light 2 and 3. What i'm getting at is one of those wires you connected up is sending power straight to earth, so no upstairs light gets power. If you dont connect it up, and protect it with insulating tape, you'll be fine.
The red and black (or brown and blue) may not be the conductor that you expect them to be, when working with "twin and earth" lighting but not the earth
DO NOT CONNECT THE EARTH IN SUBSTITUTE FOR ONE OF THE OTHER WIRES UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, IT'S NOT CALLED THE CIRCUIT PROTECTIVE CONDUCTOR FOR FUN!!
It is possible that one of the wires you are thinking of as a live is in fact the neutral,
however that is assuming that the lighting circuit worked properly before the old lights were removed,
that you have not bought a dodgy fitting
and that the wiring in the connector blocks is the only wiring to of been touched.
Unless you are confident with this (which I assume you are not) get an electrician. If the fittings should of been included in the sale of the house then contact your solicitor to see if the vendor should pay for the cost of electrician/fittings- usually a thread running in sp&l about similar things- one currently about a house with no tv ariel.
DO NOT CONNECT THE EARTH IN SUBSTITUTE FOR ONE OF THE OTHER WIRES UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, IT'S NOT CALLED THE CIRCUIT PROTECTIVE CONDUCTOR FOR FUN!!
It is possible that one of the wires you are thinking of as a live is in fact the neutral,
however that is assuming that the lighting circuit worked properly before the old lights were removed,
that you have not bought a dodgy fitting
and that the wiring in the connector blocks is the only wiring to of been touched.
Unless you are confident with this (which I assume you are not) get an electrician. If the fittings should of been included in the sale of the house then contact your solicitor to see if the vendor should pay for the cost of electrician/fittings- usually a thread running in sp&l about similar things- one currently about a house with no tv ariel.
Brite spark said:
If the fittings should of been included in the sale of the house then contact your solicitor to see if the vendor should pay for the cost of electrician/fittings- usually a thread running in sp&l about similar things- one currently about a house with no tv ariel.
What? They were supposed to leave the washing powder behind? 
Simpo Two said:
Invest £2 on an elctrical screwdriver (ie has a neon fitted). When it touches a live wire, it lights up orange - which is infinitely better than YOU lighting up orange! £2 could save your life.
he's working on a dead circuit so it won't help- I'm not going to suggest working live to him- dangerous and won't really help find the fault unless he knows hat he is doing.neon screwdrivers do not always light up, so can not be trusted as a definitive guide to wether the wire is dead
Ganglandboss said:
The best thing to do here is get a proper spark in. I am a qualified spark and there's no way stuff like this can be diagnosed on an internet forum. Your best bet is to get someone in who knows what they're doing and get them to have a good look around while they're at it.
Far too sensible for PH i'm afraid. What you really need is a bunch I.T types or other desk jockeys to post about how they'd do it.As for a £2 neon driver saving your life (other post), it could just as easily kill you. They're s
t.Thx for all the advice. Fittings were not included, they wanted to take them and a whole load of other things (such as blinds, curtains etc).
Resigned myself to getting a sparky in so will ask neighbours if they use anyone trustworthy as I don;t want the previous owners sparky in, as its likely he did the bodge in the first place!
Resigned myself to getting a sparky in so will ask neighbours if they use anyone trustworthy as I don;t want the previous owners sparky in, as its likely he did the bodge in the first place!
williamp said:
Its not unknown for people to use colourd wire for other uses-
I was replacing a light fitting once, spent over an hour trying to work out the wiring (I'm usually pretty good at these things), so eventaully gave up and called in a spark and he told me that most of the wires were the wrong colour, and it looked like the previous installer had just used whatever wire was close to hand at the time.
TedMaul said:
Thx for all the advice. Fittings were not included, they wanted to take them and a whole load of other things (such as blinds, curtains etc).
Actually, when light fittings are not included in a sale, it is usual practice for the contract to specify that a bog standard lamp be fitted by the vendor to replace the fancy one they're taking. Leaving wires hanging out of the wall is not acceptable.Check with your solicitor / conveyancer to see what was specified.
Brite spark said:
neon screwdrivers do not always light up, so can not be trusted as a definitive guide to wether the wire is dead
Depends how smart you are. I test mine on the wire live first to make sure it works. Then I turn the power off and try again. Things on the same circuit that all go off when I throw the trip is also handy evidence.There is more chance that the neon will work than that it will have failed at exactly the same time. Therefore I maintain that it *could* save your life.
So, experts - you have a wire sticking out of a wall that may or may not be live. How do YOU find out?
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 21st August 14:09
Simpo Two said:
Brite spark said:
neon screwdrivers do not always light up, so can not be trusted as a definitive guide to wether the wire is dead
Depends how smart you are. I test mine on the wire live first to make sure it works. Then I turn the power off and try again. Things on the same circuit that all go off when I throw the trip is also handy evidence.There is more chance that the neon will work than that it will have failed at exactly the same time. Therefore I maintain that it *could* save your life.
So, experts - you have a wire sticking out of a wall that may or may not be live. How do YOU find out?
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 21st August 14:09
Simpo Two said:
Brite spark said:
neon screwdrivers do not always light up, so can not be trusted as a definitive guide to wether the wire is dead
Depends how smart you are. I test mine on the wire live first to make sure it works. Then I turn the power off and try again. Things on the same circuit that all go off when I throw the trip is also handy evidence.There is more chance that the neon will work than that it will have failed at exactly the same time. Therefore I maintain that it *could* save your life.
So, experts - you have a wire sticking out of a wall that may or may not be live. How do YOU find out?
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 21st August 14:09
& if you haven't got one of them then you shouldn't be touching anything.Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff