Discussion
Right then people, I am now the owner of my first BEC.
Never driven one before, and want some general advice re gearbox.
Am I right in saying the clutch is needed for coming down the box, but not up the box?
In general on the road is it a good idea to always us the clutch?
Also, and advice re proshifter etc?
Ta!
Never driven one before, and want some general advice re gearbox.
Am I right in saying the clutch is needed for coming down the box, but not up the box?
In general on the road is it a good idea to always us the clutch?
Also, and advice re proshifter etc?
Ta!
I generally always use the clutch in normal driving. When in maximum attack mode, i do not use it for upshifts. You always neeed to use it for down shifts. Do not ask me why sometimes the shifts are silent at low speeds and other times they clonk, i have never worked that out! You always get some clunking due to the backlash on the LSD. But going flat out they should be smooth and instant. Regarding the shifter kits, be careful as while they can work well, if not properly set up they will ruin your gearbox. They are brutal and if not perfect it just rams the gears home, where normally you would have a bit of mechanical sympathy in your hand.
Advice on shifting dog boxes here. It's written by Hewland for their car gearboxes, but the same applies to bike boxes (arguably more so, since bike boxes are not built for the higher shock loads you get with the greater weight of a car).
Like Lee, I use the clutch when driving normally, but not when driving at 'maximum attack'. The advice on the Hewland website is good... I find that the best and kindest way to clutchless upshift is to apply light finger pressure to the gearlever, then very quickly lift on the accelerator just enough that it unloads the dogs, at which point the next gear will select itself, before instantly coming back onto the power.
You can do full throttle clutchless upshifts by just punching the selector into the next gear, but it's not at all kind to the box.
Like Lee, I use the clutch when driving normally, but not when driving at 'maximum attack'. The advice on the Hewland website is good... I find that the best and kindest way to clutchless upshift is to apply light finger pressure to the gearlever, then very quickly lift on the accelerator just enough that it unloads the dogs, at which point the next gear will select itself, before instantly coming back onto the power.
You can do full throttle clutchless upshifts by just punching the selector into the next gear, but it's not at all kind to the box.
Thanks guys, will have a read of the link.
Firstly, hill starts are interesting. My last car was a Caterham SLR, which was fairly easy to hill start with plenty (in terms of this) torque. I live in a valley, and at either end there is a traffic light junction on a fairly steep hill so no way around this. First go tonight did not result in a stall but a rather large cloud of smoke from the tyres! Must practice that I think!!!
Secondly, I am finding neutral ok which is a bonus but when I pull back for 1st it does not awalys grab the gear and although the N lamp goes out it comes back on when I try to pull away. I think I just need to be a bit firmer into first.
Other than that, BIG GRIN
This thing turns in like nothing else!
Will read up on the link about the g/box and put a bit of practice in before my first planned track day in a few weeks..
Firstly, hill starts are interesting. My last car was a Caterham SLR, which was fairly easy to hill start with plenty (in terms of this) torque. I live in a valley, and at either end there is a traffic light junction on a fairly steep hill so no way around this. First go tonight did not result in a stall but a rather large cloud of smoke from the tyres! Must practice that I think!!!
Secondly, I am finding neutral ok which is a bonus but when I pull back for 1st it does not awalys grab the gear and although the N lamp goes out it comes back on when I try to pull away. I think I just need to be a bit firmer into first.
Other than that, BIG GRIN
This thing turns in like nothing else!
Will read up on the link about the g/box and put a bit of practice in before my first planned track day in a few weeks..
I find that changing 1st-2nd is really clonky if attempted clutchless when driving normally (say changing at ~6k rpm), 2nd-3rd is less so but I usually use the clutch for these. Above third no need for the clutch at all on upshifts, I use the "apply load to the gear lever with your hand and then lift the throttle foot off and back on to the pedal as fast as physically possible" method. If changing gear at high revs the shifts are generally less clunky so 2nd-3rd is fine clutchless. I'd suggest ensuring that the first time you try 1st-2nd clutchless you have a dry road!
Downshifts are don't require the clutch to be fully disengaged (and are smoother this way) with an appropriate throttle blip.
What car is it?
Downshifts are don't require the clutch to be fully disengaged (and are smoother this way) with an appropriate throttle blip.
What car is it?
Regrettably - and I expect to get flamed by all the BEC fanatics (hello, Jon Ison! 
), but do bear in mind that I own a car with a dog box myself, so I'm being self- critical (if honest) here - dog engagement gearboxes are not really suitable for road use.
Again, if you don't believe me, read the Hewland website - they know a little bit about gearboxes.
Dog boxes are superb when driven on a track at 10/10ths, but anything resembling normal road use really constitutes abuse.
As Hewland says, using the clutch just prolongs the exposure to damage, but if you're driving at road speeds, there's no alternative, since slow clutchless upchanges are even more abusive than using the clutch, when you factor in the greater weight and shorter gearing of a car vs. bike, and taking account of the rev drop.
Don't get me wrong - they'll have a reasonable lifespan, in the context of the average BEC annual mileage, but on the road you'll always be driving around their shortcomings. It's only on the track that they start to make sense.
You'll get a feel for the box eventually, and will learn to minimise the damage, but don't expect it to ever be as smooth or user-friendly as a synchro box.
), but do bear in mind that I own a car with a dog box myself, so I'm being self- critical (if honest) here - dog engagement gearboxes are not really suitable for road use.Again, if you don't believe me, read the Hewland website - they know a little bit about gearboxes.
Dog boxes are superb when driven on a track at 10/10ths, but anything resembling normal road use really constitutes abuse.
As Hewland says, using the clutch just prolongs the exposure to damage, but if you're driving at road speeds, there's no alternative, since slow clutchless upchanges are even more abusive than using the clutch, when you factor in the greater weight and shorter gearing of a car vs. bike, and taking account of the rev drop.
Don't get me wrong - they'll have a reasonable lifespan, in the context of the average BEC annual mileage, but on the road you'll always be driving around their shortcomings. It's only on the track that they start to make sense.
You'll get a feel for the box eventually, and will learn to minimise the damage, but don't expect it to ever be as smooth or user-friendly as a synchro box.
My Fury9R did 4 years of track days and never had the gearbox touched once.
I think if you are coming at a Bec from bikes, you can understand the sytem and work with it, but I think Cec drivers sem to hammer them.
I always used the clutch on the road for up and down, but only on downshifts on track.
Im missing my Fury lots these days, so much so Im off to Silverstone this afternoon to watch the RGB boys playing.
I think if you are coming at a Bec from bikes, you can understand the sytem and work with it, but I think Cec drivers sem to hammer them.
I always used the clutch on the road for up and down, but only on downshifts on track.
Im missing my Fury lots these days, so much so Im off to Silverstone this afternoon to watch the RGB boys playing.
Furyous said:
My Fury9R did 4 years of track days and never had the gearbox touched once.
But that's the whole point. Fast changes of the sort you make on a race track are kind to dog gearboxes. It's slow changes that do the damage (read the advice on Hewland's website to understand why), and unfortunately its neither possible nor sensible to shift gear like you're on a race track when you're pootling though villages or ambling along in a stream of heavy traffic.My old 893cc Fury Fireblade did 15,000 road miles (inclucluding about 10 trackdays)on its original gearbox, 3 clutches and the gearbox was perfect when i crashed... The new owner who rebuilt the chassis is now enjoying it, and as far as i know it is still perfect (uses Barnett springs)
My friend Gordon griffin raced a scrapyard 893 blade in RGB, and it was 2 1/2 years before the gearbox went wayward.
The R1 Phoenix i have now has done 12,000 miles (brand new when fitted) and had just had a new clutch last week (£120, 45 minutes to change) . I think the gearbox issue is nothing to worry about. If the gearbox goes, buy a complete used engine for about £700 and use that, do not bother with a new gearbox. I think only early ZX9's had a specific problem, for all intents and purposes most others are indestructible unless you are unlucky.
My friend Gordon griffin raced a scrapyard 893 blade in RGB, and it was 2 1/2 years before the gearbox went wayward.
The R1 Phoenix i have now has done 12,000 miles (brand new when fitted) and had just had a new clutch last week (£120, 45 minutes to change) . I think the gearbox issue is nothing to worry about. If the gearbox goes, buy a complete used engine for about £700 and use that, do not bother with a new gearbox. I think only early ZX9's had a specific problem, for all intents and purposes most others are indestructible unless you are unlucky.
As with most others on here I do 2 things with upshifts:
I only do clutchless if im well up the revs and full throttle, if not I always use the clutch to change gear.
My brother started doing clutchless whilst accelerating gently and putting pressure on the gear lever so it would just pop into the next gear when you ease off, but every now and then it sounded like it was doing no good at all so he is using the clutch for slow upshifts now.
I only do clutchless if im well up the revs and full throttle, if not I always use the clutch to change gear.
My brother started doing clutchless whilst accelerating gently and putting pressure on the gear lever so it would just pop into the next gear when you ease off, but every now and then it sounded like it was doing no good at all so he is using the clutch for slow upshifts now.
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