Construction and Use Regs, Insurance
Discussion
Opinions please:
If an exhaust is modified (or replaced) to create more noise or pass more gas than standard then the car does not comply with the Vehicle Construction and Use Regs. Therefore, the insurance on the car is invalid because no UK insurer will insure a car that does not comply with UK law.
Worrying
If an exhaust is modified (or replaced) to create more noise or pass more gas than standard then the car does not comply with the Vehicle Construction and Use Regs. Therefore, the insurance on the car is invalid because no UK insurer will insure a car that does not comply with UK law.
Worrying
I would assume the original exhaust complies with the directive on noise, and does not specifically state a dB figure, therefore any aftermarket exhaust that complies with the directive is OK on noise levels. As for the gas flow, who measures it? I am pretty sure the constructions and use regulations do not state a particular level of flow either, so no problem.
As Corozin commented, declare it to the insurance company, if they accept it then fine. If aftermarket exhausts were all illegal the insurance companies would not accept any, and tell you this.
As Corozin commented, declare it to the insurance company, if they accept it then fine. If aftermarket exhausts were all illegal the insurance companies would not accept any, and tell you this.
Above comments are correct.
If you declare the type of exhaust to your insurers, and they dont check, you have done your bit, you are in the clear.
If should the worst happen, and they bale out in time of need, remember to inform them that they record the telephone calls.
Always a winner that one.
Mike.
If you declare the type of exhaust to your insurers, and they dont check, you have done your bit, you are in the clear.
If should the worst happen, and they bale out in time of need, remember to inform them that they record the telephone calls.
Always a winner that one.
Mike.
Thanks for the replies.
Until recently I thought along similar lines.
However, as I understand it now, magistrates will accept a Police Officer's opinion that a modified/replacement exhaust emits more noise/produces more gas than standard and is therefore in breach of the Construction and Use Regs. No decibel or gas flow meters required.
I've asked the Association of British Insurers for comment, they've told me that insurers would not intentionally insure a vehicle that did not meet legal requirements. So if the modified/aftermarket exhaust does not comply with the Construction and Use Regs (noisier than standard) then the insurance policy is void, although the insurer would still meet a claim from an injured third party under the Road Traffic Act, however the insurer could then recover the money paid out from the policyholder.
IMHO, it's possible that telling the insurer about the aftermarket exhaust would be mitigation but not a defence
Until recently I thought along similar lines.
However, as I understand it now, magistrates will accept a Police Officer's opinion that a modified/replacement exhaust emits more noise/produces more gas than standard and is therefore in breach of the Construction and Use Regs. No decibel or gas flow meters required.
I've asked the Association of British Insurers for comment, they've told me that insurers would not intentionally insure a vehicle that did not meet legal requirements. So if the modified/aftermarket exhaust does not comply with the Construction and Use Regs (noisier than standard) then the insurance policy is void, although the insurer would still meet a claim from an injured third party under the Road Traffic Act, however the insurer could then recover the money paid out from the policyholder.
IMHO, it's possible that telling the insurer about the aftermarket exhaust would be mitigation but not a defence
Well I wouldn't do that. (stick you on for it)
My apologies, hopefully didn't confuse you. I thought the question was re the insurance.
You are quite right, excessive noise is contrary to con and use. Difficult one to deal with though, I alledgedly am an expert, however my sophisticated audio eqpt is my ear, same as yours.
It all comes down to other factors really. popping a few doughnuts whilst on the phone, lighting a fag in a private place may result ib the exhaust 'problem' being identified.
Jolly nice chap in a Tvr would generally get a smile.
My apologies, hopefully didn't confuse you. I thought the question was re the insurance.
You are quite right, excessive noise is contrary to con and use. Difficult one to deal with though, I alledgedly am an expert, however my sophisticated audio eqpt is my ear, same as yours.
It all comes down to other factors really. popping a few doughnuts whilst on the phone, lighting a fag in a private place may result ib the exhaust 'problem' being identified.
Jolly nice chap in a Tvr would generally get a smile.
Hi Silverback Mike
"> My apologies, hopefully didn't confuse you. I thought the question was re the insurance. >"
It is about insurance and the Construction and Use Regs. Can a car be insured if it does not comply with UK law?
The answer probably hinges on whether it's sufficient to tell the insurer about fitting a modified component or whether the policyholder has a duty to ensure that the modification does not contravene the Construction and Use Regs.
I was surprised to find out that a Police Officer did not need a dB or gas flow meter.
>> Edited by mrcur on Monday 15th September 14:51
"> My apologies, hopefully didn't confuse you. I thought the question was re the insurance. >"
It is about insurance and the Construction and Use Regs. Can a car be insured if it does not comply with UK law?
The answer probably hinges on whether it's sufficient to tell the insurer about fitting a modified component or whether the policyholder has a duty to ensure that the modification does not contravene the Construction and Use Regs.
I was surprised to find out that a Police Officer did not need a dB or gas flow meter.
>> Edited by mrcur on Monday 15th September 14:51
Hi,
The duty is with the person insuring the vehicle.
However, the insurance company does have an obligation to ask the correct questions, as is your obligation to tell them the relevant information.
I will have a word, and give you a definate answer.
My thoughts are that if it breaks the law, then would be uninsured if picked up for that particular offence.
Leave it with me matey.
Mike.
The duty is with the person insuring the vehicle.
However, the insurance company does have an obligation to ask the correct questions, as is your obligation to tell them the relevant information.
I will have a word, and give you a definate answer.
My thoughts are that if it breaks the law, then would be uninsured if picked up for that particular offence.
Leave it with me matey.
Mike.
Right then, here we go...
Mrcur, Hypothetically speaking of course. If you vehicle sounds like the apocalypse, then if you have told your insurance company you have a modified exhaust, I can confirm you are DEFINATELY insured. If you get 'stuck on' and as you state, have an illegal vehicle, then yes you do have insurance.
However, if you have bought an after market exhaust, by law, they will have a kitemark or equivalent, and be below the prescribed limit.
Not so, if you weld a bit of scaffold pipe and drill holes in it. If you did that, you wouldn't have a recognised exhaust, and therefore your insurance company may have an issue with that one.
MrE, There is a decibel level described in PNLDB (which is a database which lists every offence known to man or beast) quoted at 96. Now this is for motorcycles, I couldn't find motorvehicles.
After a lot of head scratching I came to the conclusion that there is not a decibel level for vehicles.
The offence being "Excessive noise from silencer"
In fact, I did mention this to one of the lads who has a particularly loud plus 8 morgan
He stated that he liked it "louder the better" And seeing as he has been a custody Sgt, and all sorts of other things, I dont think you have a problem.
Hope that helps chaps.
Mike.
Mrcur, Hypothetically speaking of course. If you vehicle sounds like the apocalypse, then if you have told your insurance company you have a modified exhaust, I can confirm you are DEFINATELY insured. If you get 'stuck on' and as you state, have an illegal vehicle, then yes you do have insurance.
However, if you have bought an after market exhaust, by law, they will have a kitemark or equivalent, and be below the prescribed limit.
Not so, if you weld a bit of scaffold pipe and drill holes in it. If you did that, you wouldn't have a recognised exhaust, and therefore your insurance company may have an issue with that one.
MrE, There is a decibel level described in PNLDB (which is a database which lists every offence known to man or beast) quoted at 96. Now this is for motorcycles, I couldn't find motorvehicles.
After a lot of head scratching I came to the conclusion that there is not a decibel level for vehicles.
The offence being "Excessive noise from silencer"
In fact, I did mention this to one of the lads who has a particularly loud plus 8 morgan
He stated that he liked it "louder the better" And seeing as he has been a custody Sgt, and all sorts of other things, I dont think you have a problem.
Hope that helps chaps.
Mike.
mrcur said:
Hi Silverback Mike
"> My apologies, hopefully didn't confuse you. I thought the question was re the insurance. >"
It is about insurance and the Construction and Use Regs. Can a car be insured if it does not comply with UK law?
The answer probably hinges on whether it's sufficient to tell the insurer about fitting a modified component or whether the policyholder has a duty to ensure that the modification does not contravene the Construction and Use Regs.
I was surprised to find out that a Police Officer did not need a dB or gas flow meter.
>> Edited by mrcur on Monday 15th September 14:51
Ooookay...Insurance in the UK operates under the principle of 'in uberrima fidei' - in utmost good faith. You, the policyholder, are deemed to know everything with regard to your car and circumstances; the insurer, who doesn't know you from Adam, is deemed to know nothing. When they ask 'have you modified your vehicle from the manufacturer's original spec' and you say 'yes I have an aftermarket exhaust' but you conveniently forget to mention that you know full well it's illegal as hell, you will NOT be covered as you have not complied with the duty of disclosure. Recorded phone calls work both ways
There is also a clause in every policy I have ever seen that says that you (as the policyholder) have a duty to maintain the insured vehicle in a roadworthy condition. It could possibly be argued that, as the exhaust is illegal, the car is ipso facto unroadworthy and therefore the insurance would be void.
Long and short of it is, fit a legal exhaust and everyone's happy
silverback mike said:
MrE, There is a decibel level described in PNLDB (which is a database which lists every offence known to man or beast) quoted at 96. Now this is for motorcycles, I couldn't find motorvehicles.
After a lot of head scratching I came to the conclusion that there is not a decibel level for vehicles.
The offence being "Excessive noise from silencer"
Many thanks Mike. 96 DB as compared with what?
As my local track has a 96 db limit, and I've heard cars being checked and passed that are *much* louder than mine, I think I'm fine.
As for your mate with the Morgan - good lad.....
jazzybee said:
Interesting. What about fitting a 'cat bypass pipe' on Pre '93 cars? Many people seem to use a bit of scaffolding pipe, some companies even sell them. I doubt they would be kitemarked. Does that make them illigal and insurance invalid even if its declared?
See your point Jazzy, however a cat by pass makes it technically illegal. After a certain date cars who have cats fitted as standard have to remain so.
However, you and I both know that is not neccessarily the way ahead for a performance car, and the cat magically finds its way back on for mot time.
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