3.5litre Vixen on E-bay

[Astacus]

I imagine you have already seen this beast on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

I know there were some Vixens made with M series chassis and Vixen bodies (MkIV?)at the change over to the M series cars, but I was not aware that they made any 3.5 litre (Rover) engined cars. The vendor seems to think its an original fitting. Maybe it was an early transplant...or perhaps a forray into an alternative engine source. It would be interesting to know whether the engine number shown matches the Rover unit.

Anyone know?

[heightswitch]

Its an S3 Vixen body but doesn't have the lower body squared off moulding as per the S3 onward cars. The chassis outriggers are more akin to S2 Vixen IE fully rounded sill line with the outrigger completely hidden by the sill.

I think this is a bit of a bitsa.

There are stories of a very few early Buick cars which didn't make it into production but were produced by the factory. the only people who could verify this are people like Martin Lilley, Possibly David Hives but not sure if he was next door by then.

Regardless it looks like the engine has lived in there for a long time. I would be interested to see underneath to ascertain whether it was an early vixen bodied 2500M chassid car. or a Transplanted S2/S3 vixen.

Neil.

[Astacus]

Thanks Heightswitch,

It certainly does look like the engine has been in there a while! I am intersted to see what it finally goes for. There are still 9 daysd to go.

Cheers

[DavidY]

If it's a M chassis it's been modified, look at the overhead engine bay view, M chassis top rail goes straight after the kink at the bell housing end to the front of the car, this one has been widened for the exhaust.

Agree with Neil, it's a Bitsa (IMO)

davidy

[Astacus]

Thanks Davidy

[DavidY]

And I'm sorry to say that Vixens on Wolfraces with Model Bands, just look wrong!

davidy

[heightswitch]

DavidY said:

And I'm sorry to say that Vixens on Wolfraces with Model Bands, just look wrong!

davidy

Stop trying to pt people off. You must have a bid in Davidy?

My guess is that it will make between £2600 - £3000
N.

Edited by heightswitch on Sunday 24th August 09:25

[Astacus]

This info was added by a guy from the States called Jim. He sounds knowledgeable:

"Q: Too bad the car isn't in the States. I'd be interested. In any event, the commision plate that you show lists the engine number for a USA export Triumph TR6 engine; so, I doubt that the Rover engine is factory original ? Since TVR was such a small operation, I'd suspect most anything could have gone on; however. I have some dim memory of one of their distributors changing engines. It seems more likely that this was returned to the UK and retrofitted by some ambitious person. The car is probably more valuable with the Rover engine whether it was delivered that way or not, if it was a good installation. Good luck with your sale. Regards, Jim 23-Aug-08

£2600 to £3000 sounds low, but then the interior does look a bit iffy and I suppose the transplant migt not suit some people. Exterior looks quite good - I do agree with DavidY re the model band though, I think Vixens look much nicer with clean lines.

Edited by Astacus on Sunday 24th August 09:53

Edited by Astacus on Sunday 24th August 10:12

[heightswitch]

Astacus said:

This info was added by a guy from the States called Jim. He sounds knowledgeable:

"Q: Too bad the car isn't in the States. I'd be interested. In any event, the commision plate that you show lists the engine number for a USA export Triumph TR6 engine; so, I doubt that the Rover engine is factory original ? Since TVR was such a small operation, I'd suspect most anything could have gone on; however. I have some dim memory of one of their distributors changing engines. It seems more likely that this was returned to the UK and retrofitted by some ambitious person. The car is probably more valuable with the Rover engine whether it was delivered that way or not, if it was a good installation. Good luck with your sale. Regards, Jim 23-Aug-08

£2600 to £3000 sounds low, but then the interior does look a bit iffy and I suppose the transplant migt not suit some people. Exterior looks quite good - I do agree with DavidY re the model band though, I think Vixens look much nicer with clean lines.

Its a vixen in need a full restoration. £3000 is about right. 2 years ago I would have said £1500
N.

Edited by Astacus on Sunday 24th August 09:53

Edited by Astacus on Sunday 24th August 10:12

[TVR_owner]

Its a shed with the wrong engine and a very undesirable chassis plate. Pay what you want, but a grand is more than enough IMHO of course...


already bid at more than it's scrap value.

Edited by TVR_owner on Sunday 24th August 21:07

[heightswitch]

A.G. said:

TVR_owner said:

Its a shed with the wrong engine and a very undesirable chassis plate. Pay what you want, but a grand is more than enough IMHO of course...


already bid at more than it's scrap value.

Edited by TVR_owner on Sunday 24th August 21:07

Harsh!

Not Really.

There are stacks of cars out there who's owners see properly restored vehicles sell and then think that there car must be worth money.

The fact of the matter is that some sap will be taken in by the fact that the car has a V8.

It is a non original butchered car which needs a full restoration. the best thing that an owner could do with this is put the 2500 triumph engine back.
£1500 is more than enough for a car which needs at least another £10k spending on it. it'l still make £3000k though. some people are always prepared to burn money.

N.

[heightswitch]

A.G. said:

heightswitch said:

It is a non original butchered car which needs a full restoration. the best thing that an owner could do with this is put the 2500 triumph engine back.

It is certainly unoriginal but I don't know enough about it to claim its whether it's butchered or not. Nor are any of us in a position to tell the potential future owner what is the best thing to do with it. If he wants a Rover V8 engined car then maybe the best thing would be to leave it in.

heightswitch said:

£1500 is more than enough for a car which needs at least another £10k spending on it. it'l still make £3000k though. some people are always prepared to burn money.

I agree and I certainly wouldn't want to put more than 1500 quid into it, but back to my original comment of the thousand pound valuation - As we all know, these things cost a fortune to restore (10-15k) then technically and logically an unrestored example should be worthless, however in the real world, this is not the case.

There has been some proper ste sold lately for between 2 and 2.5k. The car is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and as it has already reached 1650 and will no doubt end up north of 2k by the end of the auction, then an armchair valuation of £1000 from someone who doesn't want to buy it is somewhat meaningless. A grand these days is pretty much spares or repair territory.

As ever, all IMHO.

Edited by A.G. on Monday 25th August 06:20

It is most definitely butchered.

The top rails of the chassis have been chopped and widened to accomodate the original range Rover cast manifolds. the engine sits about 5" forward to where it should be.

It is a vixen and it is rare but To put the car back to a proper spec will cost a lot of folding. I would far rather buy a basket case original car than a modified one which needs restoring and returning to a proper state of build. Don't get me wrong The chassis rails may have been chopped in a workmanlike manner BUT! TVR chassis get their strength from being made from 1 piece of tube for and aft. the 4 main tubesgiving the spaceframes strength.

Butchered is a fair description IMHO.

Far too much profiteering on scrap is happening on e-bay these days. the car could be a very good project for someone. I just don't like to see over egged pudding.

The V8 is also Not made of Heavy cast iron as it should be for these tractors

N.

Edited by heightswitch on Monday 25th August 09:51

[DavidY]

Heightswitch said:

The top rails of the chassis have been chopped and widened to accomodate the original range Rover cast manifolds. the engine sits about 5" forward to where it should be.

I'd be far more concerned about the lack of any meaningful brace between the top front suspension mounts, the position of the engine in relation to the front suspension mounts suggests there is none apart from that rusty bar held on with angle brackets a bit further forward.

As said this car is 'definitely' butchered, look at the straightness of the interior switch gear as well!! Yes it would make a great project but to restore to an original Vixen 2500 would cost £££££. As a project as a 'bit of fun' car keeping the Rover V8, moving it back and putting some strength back in the chassis is might be ok.

Body doesn't look too bad though

davidy

Edited by DavidY on Monday 25th August 10:05

Edited by DavidY on Monday 25th August 14:17

[TVR_owner]

A.G. said:

The car is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and as it has already reached 1650 and will no doubt end up north of 2k by the end of the auction, then an armchair valuation of £1000 from someone who doesn't want to buy it is somewhat meaningless. A grand these days is pretty much spares or repair territory.

All points well made. The armchair valuation was based upon the fact that I see it as spares/repair teritory - it's not a realsitic restoration project is it?

Least that's my opinion and I know it won't be popular.

But.... when the base car has modified bodywork, the chassis is butchered, it has the wrong engine, the wrong wheels etc etc. its not a realistic proposition unless you desperatly want a 2500 Vixen or a V8 3500 "thing".

To add further insult, having spent North of 20K of your hard earned cash in total, what you will have if is a restored 2500 Vixen, the least desirable Vixen/Tuscan variant available - or an even less disirable restored "thing" that you can spend the rest of your life pretending was an important part of TVRs heritage???

I think I'll stick with my valuation of what its worth in the real world, not what some romantic with too much money and probably not a lot of idea of what it will cost to restore is prepared to pay.;)

Edited by TVR_owner on Monday 25th August 13:10

[TVR_owner]

I think basket cases probably are ok price wise (if we are talking NRRP......non-romantic retail price).

I don't undertsand why Ms are so undervalued relative to other things on the market - its like you say, they are worth what someone will pay for them.

Very good Vixens are selling for what a good 5 litre Griffith would sell for. A nice usable M can be had for a little more than what as been suggested this "thing" will sell for, so I am as confused as anyone else on here..

Even well restored well sorted Turbos don't make the money you would think they should?

[DavidY]

I think the problem with M values is the competition available from other cars especially TVRs, when you can buy a reasonable Chimaera for similar money to a decent 3000S, I think that most people (especially after consulting with their partners) will plump for the Chimaera. One looks more modern, has a V8, has a decent roof, better interior, heater that does a better impression of working, etc, etc

Vixens are rather more specialist and I suspect are being bought by older buyers, often by those interested in a mild bit of competition (eg sprints/hillclimbs).

M's just fall in a halfway house, and IMO a bit of a bargain at present, but as we all know (if we are realistic) the costs in getting these cars up to scratch is not cheap (I know I've been there and got the expensive T shirt).

[jpa]

DavidY said:

Vixens are rather more specialist and I suspect are being bought by older buyers, often by those interested in a mild bit of competition (eg sprints/hillclimbs).

I think you are right judging by the 5 vixens that were being run at Harewood Hillclimb yesterday. But less of the 'old', I am only slightly older than my vixen!!

Was good to see the TVR club gents in their vixens blasting up. And even better that they matched the times of an apparently more modified vixen running in a different class (owned by a slightly less friendly driver!)

Paul

Edited by jpa on Monday 25th August 16:45

[DavidY]

I'm only just older than any Vixen!! but if you were in the 25-35 category and wanted to buy a TVR as a weekend toy and had £8-£10K plus a bit for bills, I reckon that most would buy a Chimaera, especially if your partner was going to come too!!!

davidy

[TVR_owner]

jpa said:

Was good to see the TVR club gents in their vixens blasting up. And even better that they matched the times of an apparently more modified vixen running in a different class (owned by a slightly less friendly driver!)

Paul

Nice to see all the TVRs there - I agree, they were a miserable bunch with the red Vixen, I thought it was just me being over sensitive.

[jpa]

TVR_owner said:

Nice to see all the TVRs there - I agree, they were a miserable bunch with the red Vixen, I thought it was just me being over sensitive.

Miserable is being polite, pig ignorant is more like it!

Was nice to see a good turn out of M's & Taimars in the hillside car park too!