Honda conversion

[F.C.]

Hi people,
I have posted about this before but I have a dilemma.
Circumstances dictate that I can only get a new S2 Exige S PP
Has anyone at all converted an S2 Exige to Honda S/C?
I ask as I know the Standard Cars 240 bhp wil only keep me amused for a short time.
I am keen to go the Honda S/C if possible.
F.C.

[Hollywood Wheels]

F.C. said:

Circumstances dictate that I can only get a new S2 Exige S PP

You can only get a brand new Lotus Exige S? You poor man. What is one to do?!

[Scuffers]

F.C. said:

Hi people,
I have posted about this before but I have a dilemma.
Circumstances dictate that I can only get a new S2 Exige S PP
Has anyone at all converted an S2 Exige to Honda S/C?
I ask as I know the Standard Cars 240 bhp wil only keep me amused for a short time.
I am keen to go the Honda S/C if possible.
F.C.

I must be missing something here?

What do you mean I can only get a new S2 Exige S PP?

if you want an S2 Exige shaped Honda car, buy this:

http://forums.seloc.org/classified.php?action=ad&a...

then give it to Maidstone... (and the total bill will still be under the £37K for the Exige + PP)

Edited by Scuffers on Saturday 30th August 11:38

[F.C.]

Scuffers said:

F.C. said:

Hi people,
I have posted about this before but I have a dilemma.
Circumstances dictate that I can only get a new S2 Exige S PP
Has anyone at all converted an S2 Exige to Honda S/C?
I ask as I know the Standard Cars 240 bhp wil only keep me amused for a short time.
I am keen to go the Honda S/C if possible.
F.C.

I must be missing something here?

What do you mean I can only get a new S2 Exige S PP?

if you want an S2 Exige shaped Honda car, buy this:

http://forums.seloc.org/classified.php?action=ad&a...

then give it to Maidstone... (and the total bill will still be under the £37K for the Exige + PP)

Edited by Scuffers on Saturday 30th August 11:38

Circumstaces being I'm trading a 2008 F430 and nobody has the dosh for it save for a ferrari/Lotus dealer.
F.C.

[bogie]

well the only option is to trade for the Exige, then sell it, then build your own Honda engined one via MSC or suchlike - you cant fit a Honda engine to the Toyota engined cars as there are currently no kits to do it and it would be prohibitively expensive.

So do as Scuffers says, buy another car to convert after youve done the trade

ETA: or of course just settle for tuning the Yota Exige to 280bhp ish - there are a few aftermarket kits about....its still nothing compared to a 100Kg lighter Rover based Exige with 350bhp SC Honda, but a lot less hassle for you

Edited by bogie on Saturday 30th August 14:35

[F.C.]

bogie said:

well the only option is to trade for the Exige, then sell it, then build your own Honda engined one via MSC or suchlike - you cant fit a Honda engine to the Toyota engined cars as there are currently no kits to do it and it would be prohibitively expensive.

So do as Scuffers says, buy another car to convert after youve done the trade

ETA: or of course just settle for tuning the Yota Exige to 280bhp ish - there are a few aftermarket kits about....its still nothing compared to a 100Kg lighter Rover based Exige with 350bhp SC Honda, but a lot less hassle for you

Edited by bogie on Saturday 30th August 14:35

Ok I see some kits for the toyota lump,
Which are the best?
Does anyone have any experience with these kits performance v reliability etc?
F.C.

[The Bandit]

Blimey,wish i had a dilemma like this.....

Edited by The Bandit on Saturday 30th August 18:58

[andy_s]

I was reading what this guy has done earlier:

http://www.exiges.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=...

http://www.exiges.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=...

[F.C.]

andy_s said:

I was reading what this guy has done earlier:

http://www.exiges.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=...

http://www.exiges.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=...

Looks like a lot of dosh for little gain in the case of a 240PP.
I think I'll head down the S1 Elise route once I've had my fill of the S2.
F.C.

[bordseye]

bogie said:

ETA: or of course just settle for tuning the Yota Exige to 280bhp ish - there are a few aftermarket kits about....its still nothing compared to a 100Kg lighter Rover based Exige with 350bhp SC Honda, but a lot less hassle for you

Edited by bogie on Saturday 30th August 14:35

dont get this. 50 kg of the extra weight in the yota engined cars is the engine and box. but the honda engine is a further 20kg heavier still so no way would a honda'd S! be more than 30 kg or half a passenger lighter than a yota S". like for like of course.

[F.C.]

bordseye said:

bogie said:

ETA: or of course just settle for tuning the Yota Exige to 280bhp ish - there are a few aftermarket kits about....its still nothing compared to a 100Kg lighter Rover based Exige with 350bhp SC Honda, but a lot less hassle for you

Edited by bogie on Saturday 30th August 14:35

dont get this. 50 kg of the extra weight in the yota engined cars is the engine and box. but the honda engine is a further 20kg heavier still so no way would a honda'd S! be more than 30 kg or half a passenger lighter than a yota S". like for like of course.

They're talking early S1 elise Conversion compared to S2 Exige PP I think.
F.C.

Edited by F.C. on Sunday 31st August 20:04

[bogie]

bordseye said:

bogie said:

ETA: or of course just settle for tuning the Yota Exige to 280bhp ish - there are a few aftermarket kits about....its still nothing compared to a 100Kg lighter Rover based Exige with 350bhp SC Honda, but a lot less hassle for you

Edited by bogie on Saturday 30th August 14:35

dont get this. 50 kg of the extra weight in the yota engined cars is the engine and box. but the honda engine is a further 20kg heavier still so no way would a honda'd S! be more than 30 kg or half a passenger lighter than a yota S". like for like of course.

not quite, as you cant use a Toyota engined version to fit the Honda too - a previously Rover engined S2, with a Honda fitted, is around 800kg in weight

a new Exige is 930kg + options (like 35kg touring pack etc) so up to about 970kg inc all options

an early 111R Elise (Yota engine) is 860kg without options, add touring pack, again near 900Kg

so thats why an S2 with Honda is 100Kg lighter (or more) and more powerful than one with a Yota engine

..S1 Hondas are generally 780Kg ish depending on which S1 and what other bits you have in there

ETA - the newer Yota engined cars added ABS, airbags, aircon, sound deadening + more, not just the engine..the extra sound deadending an aircon weigh 50Kg alone ...and all this is the reason why a lot of owners of earlier cars, did not 'upgrade' to the newer ones, instead they fit Honda or Audi engines and have a lighter, more powerful car, with the extra reliability of the mass production, more pokey engines...rather than highly tuned K series

Edited by bogie on Sunday 31st August 21:00

[Scuffers]

bordseye said:

dont get this. 50 kg of the extra weight in the yota engined cars is the engine and box. but the honda engine is a further 20kg heavier still so no way would a honda'd S! be more than 30 kg or half a passenger lighter than a yota S". like for like of course.

point of order..

Honda engine is not 20Kg's more than the toyota, it's lighter.

[ro_butler]

bogie said:

not quite, as you cant use a Toyota engined version to fit the Honda too - a previously Rover engined S2, with a Honda fitted, is around 800kg in weight

a new Exige is 930kg + options (like 35kg touring pack etc) so up to about 970kg inc all options

an early 111R Elise (Yota engine) is 860kg without options, add touring pack, again near 900Kg

so thats why an S2 with Honda is 100Kg lighter (or more) and more powerful than one with a Yota engine

..S1 Hondas are generally 780Kg ish depending on which S1 and what other bits you have in there

ETA - the newer Yota engined cars added ABS, airbags, aircon, sound deadening + more, not just the engine..the extra sound deadending an aircon weigh 50Kg alone ...and all this is the reason why a lot of owners of earlier cars, did not 'upgrade' to the newer ones, instead they fit Honda or Audi engines and have a lighter, more powerful car, with the extra reliability of the mass production, more pokey engines...rather than highly tuned K series

Edited by bogie on Sunday 31st August 21:00

Bogie,

Is there actually any difference between the chassis of a K-series engined S2 exige and a yota engined one (apart from the obvious engine mounting differences)? Is the old chassis weaker or less stiff?
If not then it looks like the way to go is to get a K-series S2 exige and then bin the engine. Are there any turbo kits for the Honda lump to get more than 350bhp that would fit the lotus?
As far as I can see there are turbo kits for the yota engine but they are for the celica and prob wouldn't fit the exige

[Scuffers]

ro_butler said:

Is there actually any difference between the chassis of a K-series engined S2 exige and a yota engined one (apart from the obvious engine mounting differences)? Is the old chassis weaker or less stiff?

S1 chassis is actually lighter and stiffer thanthe S2 one (no door apeture cut-outs etc)

ro_butler said:

If not then it looks like the way to go is to get a K-series S2 exige and then bin the engine. Are there any turbo kits for the Honda lump to get more than 350bhp that would fit the lotus?
As far as I can see there are turbo kits for the yota engine but they are for the celica and prob wouldn't fit the exige

no such thing as a K serise S2 Exige, only S2 Elise with pannel changes.

Turbo kit's exsist for the K20, just not been used on the Elise install (they would need re-working).

also, to get substantially more than 350-360 bhp, the engine is going to need work.

[ro_butler]

Scuffers said:

no such thing as a K serise S2 Exige, only S2 Elise with pannel changes.

ok, so all S2 exiges have toyota engines. Does your answer imply that there are S2 elises with panel changes so that they look like exiges?
Interesting. How would one tell them apart?

[Scuffers]

ro_butler said:

Scuffers said:

no such thing as a K serise S2 Exige, only S2 Elise with pannel changes.

ok, so all S2 exiges have toyota engines. Does your answer imply that there are S2 elises with panel changes so that they look like exiges?
Interesting. How would one tell them apart?

yes.

depends on how well they were done, but the engine bay will be the real give away...

[bordseye]

Scuffers said:

bordseye said:

dont get this. 50 kg of the extra weight in the yota engined cars is the engine and box. but the honda engine is a further 20kg heavier still so no way would a honda'd S! be more than 30 kg or half a passenger lighter than a yota S". like for like of course.

point of order..

Honda engine is not 20Kg's more than the toyota, it's lighter.

From the Sands site "All of this tends towards an engine that weighs in, as standard, fully dressed at 96.5 kg. Compare this to the Honda S2000 engine similarly equipped with standard manifold clutch and fluids at 158 kg and the Toyota 1.9 VVTi engine at 137 kg. The Rover engine"s compact size and weight are a significant advantage in a lightweight race/sports car of the Lotus 7 type or the Elise."

[ro_butler]

Scuffers said:

ro_butler said:

Scuffers said:

no such thing as a K serise S2 Exige, only S2 Elise with pannel changes.

ok, so all S2 exiges have toyota engines. Does your answer imply that there are S2 elises with panel changes so that they look like exiges?
Interesting. How would one tell them apart?

yes.

depends on how well they were done, but the engine bay will be the real give away...

Without wishing to labour the point.... this implies that the exige S2 and elise S2 chassis are the same apart from the engine bay?
Therefore an exige S2 and a modified elise S2 will weigh the same (assuming they have the same engine).
So based on the above (and assuming you wanted an S2 car) the advice might be to find an elise S2 that has been converted to an exige and put a Honda K20 in it.

Fascinating.

I guess the differences in the engine bay between the toyota and K series cars is fairly significant otherwise someone might have tried to convert a toyota engined car? Or is it that the toyota cars are reliable so nobody is bothered?

Thanks for these answers guys it is always interesting to find out bits like this that are not always apparent just by looking at the cars.

[Scuffers]

bordseye said:

Scuffers said:

bordseye said:

dont get this. 50 kg of the extra weight in the yota engined cars is the engine and box. but the honda engine is a further 20kg heavier still so no way would a honda'd S! be more than 30 kg or half a passenger lighter than a yota S". like for like of course.

point of order..

Honda engine is not 20Kg's more than the toyota, it's lighter.

From the Sands site "All of this tends towards an engine that weighs in, as standard, fully dressed at 96.5 kg. Compare this to the Honda S2000 engine similarly equipped with standard manifold clutch and fluids at 158 kg and the Toyota 1.9 VVTi engine at 137 kg. The Rover engine"s compact size and weight are a significant advantage in a lightweight race/sports car of the Lotus 7 type or the Elise."

I do wish people would stop quoting that rubbish, assides the fact that the figures are bullst, the engine used in the Honda converstion sis the K20A NOT the F20C from the S2000.
the reality is, (and this has been shown on *many* occations) the total weight gain from Rover to Honda is between 15-20Kg's (depending on which K you are taking out etc).