How do I make my bike more willing to turn?
Discussion
Not sure if there's a technical term for it, but my bike (2005 Specialised FSR XC Pro with Rock Shox Reba forks) seems reluctant to turn, especially at slowish speeds.
I've read reviews of new bikes where comment is made as to the willingness or otherwise for a bike to turn, and the woes of having too much or not enough, but what actually influences this? Is there anything I can do to alter it? Changing stem length or something like that?
I've read reviews of new bikes where comment is made as to the willingness or otherwise for a bike to turn, and the woes of having too much or not enough, but what actually influences this? Is there anything I can do to alter it? Changing stem length or something like that?
Stem length plays a role definately, but watch out you dont compromise your position too much..especially if you have a short top tube in the first place.
Also make sure your headset isnt too too tight (binding) or make sure the bearings are in good nick.
Otherwise its the headtube geometry that dictates how responsive the bike is, and these days thats coupled with making sure the proper suspension fork length is used (fitting 140mm travel fork to an old skool frame that previously rode with a ridgid fork is an extreme example)
Also make sure your headset isnt too too tight (binding) or make sure the bearings are in good nick.
Otherwise its the headtube geometry that dictates how responsive the bike is, and these days thats coupled with making sure the proper suspension fork length is used (fitting 140mm travel fork to an old skool frame that previously rode with a ridgid fork is an extreme example)
Thanks for the input guys.
The headset is fine - I replaced the original when it died with a nice Hope one which is smooth as anything.
From what has been said, I'd guess it comes from changing the forks. I can't off-hand remember what was on their originally, but they were clearly the area where Spesh had pushed back to come within budget! They had a maximum travel in theory of 100mm, but with my 18 stone frame, I was taking up 70% of the travel at a standstill, and the heaviest springs the LBS could find for them were only rated up to somewhere short of 14 stone!
In theory, the Rebas only take the travel from 100mm to 115mm, but as I can pump them up to only take up 30% travel at standstill, I guess this makes for a big difference. I thing the stem on there is already pretty short, so I'm not sure how much more option I have. I'll dial the forks down to 80mm and see if there is a noticeable difference.
The headset is fine - I replaced the original when it died with a nice Hope one which is smooth as anything.
From what has been said, I'd guess it comes from changing the forks. I can't off-hand remember what was on their originally, but they were clearly the area where Spesh had pushed back to come within budget! They had a maximum travel in theory of 100mm, but with my 18 stone frame, I was taking up 70% of the travel at a standstill, and the heaviest springs the LBS could find for them were only rated up to somewhere short of 14 stone!
In theory, the Rebas only take the travel from 100mm to 115mm, but as I can pump them up to only take up 30% travel at standstill, I guess this makes for a big difference. I thing the stem on there is already pretty short, so I'm not sure how much more option I have. I'll dial the forks down to 80mm and see if there is a noticeable difference.
Chris71 said:
What tubes and tyres are you running?
The rotating mass does seem to have an effect on the bike's willingness to turn in. Doubt it's as significant as head angle, but I reckon you can noitce it. Especially if it's something like DH tyres and tyre protectors against an XC setup.
Just 2.1" Panaracer XC tyres and bog standard Spesh tubes. If anything, the tyres are lighter than those I had on previously.The rotating mass does seem to have an effect on the bike's willingness to turn in. Doubt it's as significant as head angle, but I reckon you can noitce it. Especially if it's something like DH tyres and tyre protectors against an XC setup.
It sounds more like a balance and rider issue than a bike issue. The bike should be spot on handling wise.
If it is tight flat switchbacks you're having trouble with it might be worth reading up on how to 'do' them and checking you're doing it. I tend to stall in them and I know it's me not the bike.
If it is tight flat switchbacks you're having trouble with it might be worth reading up on how to 'do' them and checking you're doing it. I tend to stall in them and I know it's me not the bike.
Bike Radar might be worth a trawling - as they're the on-line version of MBUK and WMB. Most of the 'big' mags have a skills section each month so some back issues might be worth ordering.
However, 'Fundamentals' DVD is very good and contains advice on nearly all types of Trail riding. 'Fluid - Ride like a Pro' is a more indepth instructional DVD that's worth a gander too.
However, 'Fundamentals' DVD is very good and contains advice on nearly all types of Trail riding. 'Fluid - Ride like a Pro' is a more indepth instructional DVD that's worth a gander too.
in my experiance i would say its your fork set up, try different settings on a short trail you know until you find the set up you like?
i had this problem last year and it took me ages to figure out i had the forks far to hard as they felt fine standing still bouncing them. Just a suggestion.
i had this problem last year and it took me ages to figure out i had the forks far to hard as they felt fine standing still bouncing them. Just a suggestion.
I've got nearly the same bike, and would suggest looking at your settings first.
Do you have enough shims on your head tube to move the stem up on the forks?
Shorter stem would do the trick, however are your bars angled forwards to allow some adjustment by turning them back.
Tried dropping your saddle?
Tried increasing the air pressure in your fork to make the front slightly stiffer?
Do you have enough shims on your head tube to move the stem up on the forks?
Shorter stem would do the trick, however are your bars angled forwards to allow some adjustment by turning them back.
Tried dropping your saddle?
Tried increasing the air pressure in your fork to make the front slightly stiffer?
Kermit power said:
Thanks for the input guys.
The headset is fine - I replaced the original when it died with a nice Hope one which is smooth as anything.
From what has been said, I'd guess it comes from changing the forks. I can't off-hand remember what was on their originally, but they were clearly the area where Spesh had pushed back to come within budget! They had a maximum travel in theory of 100mm, but with my 18 stone frame, I was taking up 70% of the travel at a standstill, and the heaviest springs the LBS could find for them were only rated up to somewhere short of 14 stone!
In theory, the Rebas only take the travel from 100mm to 115mm, but as I can pump them up to only take up 30% travel at standstill, I guess this makes for a big difference. I thing the stem on there is already pretty short, so I'm not sure how much more option I have. I'll dial the forks down to 80mm and see if there is a noticeable difference.
Basically, if you increase the fork length you slacken the steering geometry which makes the steering less twitchy, but in extreme cases makes the bike "flop" into corners. I have Tripple Clamp DH forks on my MTB tandem which are really too long, but I just live with it due to the advantages it has. This makes the bike handle as described. Basically the only thing you can do is either fit lower profile tyres or reduce the travel of the fork by running more sag (or you might be able to get them spaced by someone like TFT).The headset is fine - I replaced the original when it died with a nice Hope one which is smooth as anything.
From what has been said, I'd guess it comes from changing the forks. I can't off-hand remember what was on their originally, but they were clearly the area where Spesh had pushed back to come within budget! They had a maximum travel in theory of 100mm, but with my 18 stone frame, I was taking up 70% of the travel at a standstill, and the heaviest springs the LBS could find for them were only rated up to somewhere short of 14 stone!
In theory, the Rebas only take the travel from 100mm to 115mm, but as I can pump them up to only take up 30% travel at standstill, I guess this makes for a big difference. I thing the stem on there is already pretty short, so I'm not sure how much more option I have. I'll dial the forks down to 80mm and see if there is a noticeable difference.
ETA having re-read your post, you can adjust the travel anyway. Do this and you will notice a difference.
HTH.
Edited by rhinochopig on Wednesday 3rd September 13:27
Longer fork = harder to turn, floppier feel
I've recently changed from a set of single crown to triple clamp forks, and noticed how its changed the reaction to turning.
However, luckily, the Commencal Mini-DH and DH frames come with a VERY handy head angle converter - you turn the shim, and you get either -10 degree or + 10 degree head angle. You also get a 0 degree head angle shim, which I'll be trying soon as I am finding the bike a little TOO slow and stable:
At speed you really want something that will react quickly, however this can only really be utilised if you are absolutely confident in your ability to handle the quicker handling!
I've recently changed from a set of single crown to triple clamp forks, and noticed how its changed the reaction to turning.
However, luckily, the Commencal Mini-DH and DH frames come with a VERY handy head angle converter - you turn the shim, and you get either -10 degree or + 10 degree head angle. You also get a 0 degree head angle shim, which I'll be trying soon as I am finding the bike a little TOO slow and stable:
At speed you really want something that will react quickly, however this can only really be utilised if you are absolutely confident in your ability to handle the quicker handling!
Holy Moly - that's a big difference in head angle. 
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