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Where can I find details of engine & chassis numbers? I'm looking at a restored 1962 Cooper and want to check out it is a real one. It doesn't appear to have a heritage certificate (or at least it hasn't been mentioned). Any help would be greatly appreciated. Ta!
Edited by Aero8 on Monday 1st September 10:46
Great, thanks for your help guru..
Chassis Number: KA254/194251
Engine Number: 9FDSAH18076
The car is this one: http://www.outwoodcars.com/vehicle.asp?ID=178
Chassis Number: KA254/194251
Engine Number: 9FDSAH18076
The car is this one: http://www.outwoodcars.com/vehicle.asp?ID=178
Chassis Number: KA254/194251
Engine Number: 9FDSAH18076
k = morris cooper
a = a series engine
25 = is actually 2S for two door
4 = mk 1 morris
9fdah is a 998 (not cooper s as in the guys advert (naughty)), but my book lists jan 1964 on.
so id say its a 998 morris cooper with posibly a slighty later engine.
Engine Number: 9FDSAH18076
k = morris cooper
a = a series engine
25 = is actually 2S for two door
4 = mk 1 morris
9fdah is a 998 (not cooper s as in the guys advert (naughty)), but my book lists jan 1964 on.
so id say its a 998 morris cooper with posibly a slighty later engine.
also, its a nice looking car, but not worth 10 grand, thats s money, id say nearer 6500 - 7000.
also, if its been restored as well as they claim, then where, for example is the dash vinyl on the lower dash rail - that really is a school boy error and makes you wonder what other, more valuable and hard corners have been cut?
also, if its been restored as well as they claim, then where, for example is the dash vinyl on the lower dash rail - that really is a school boy error and makes you wonder what other, more valuable and hard corners have been cut?
Thanks for your help guru. So at least its a legit Cooper. I guess it wouldn't have a Heritage Certificate if it has a later (not matching number) engine..? I see what you mean about the trim, Minis aren't my strong point (yet) so I will have to do alot more research. Theres not alot else to compare it with on the market from what I can see.
Edited by Aero8 on Monday 1st September 11:49
It does look pretty.
However, I did notice that the screens don't have the plastic chrome closing strips, it has black ones from a much later era.
Also the lack of vinyl leather-cloth on the lower dash rail would tend to indicate either that it's been re-shelled into an 850 shell at some point and the leather cloth has been missed off. Either that, or the shell was taken back to bare metal for restoration. It's easy enough to fix, but at that price the car should be absolutely perfect in every period detail. At that money a 1962 car should have the correct 997 engine, even though the 998 is a much better unit.
There is no such thing as a 998 Cooper 'S' engine. The nearest to that is a 970 'S' block, but that would be for a 1964/65 car. At a +0.020 re-bore a 970 becomes 999cc, not 998.
Check with heritage as to the manufature date of that body shell and see if the engine number matches. Also check in the boot to see if the shell has the original boot floor brackets and that the gear linkage hole in the floor is correct and original. You can usually tell if it's a hole cut later and not properly finished around the edges.
I did also note that the ar has Coopre 'S' wheels which look like 4.5" reverse rims. Again not original, although desirable (maybe).
As Richy says, that is sure a lot of money to ask for a 997 or 998 and at that price you should be looking for total originality as well as quality of restoration. The lack of the vinyl makes me suspicious, but maybe I'm paranoid due to being in the middle of helping a guy who bought a 'genuine re-shelled 1970 Cooper S' off ebay and who is now faced with virtually a complete re-build just to get it to run. Original and genuine it will never be, but he has now paid out the sort of money for which he could have bought a genuine car.
By the way, there is a 1971 Mk 3 Cooper 'S' 1275 for sale in the MCR magazine this month, fully restored in 2005/6 and the asking price is £10,000 ono. Bear-in-mind that this is a genuine 'S'.
Caveat emptor, as always!
I hope all this helps,
Peter
However, I did notice that the screens don't have the plastic chrome closing strips, it has black ones from a much later era.
Also the lack of vinyl leather-cloth on the lower dash rail would tend to indicate either that it's been re-shelled into an 850 shell at some point and the leather cloth has been missed off. Either that, or the shell was taken back to bare metal for restoration. It's easy enough to fix, but at that price the car should be absolutely perfect in every period detail. At that money a 1962 car should have the correct 997 engine, even though the 998 is a much better unit.
There is no such thing as a 998 Cooper 'S' engine. The nearest to that is a 970 'S' block, but that would be for a 1964/65 car. At a +0.020 re-bore a 970 becomes 999cc, not 998.
Check with heritage as to the manufature date of that body shell and see if the engine number matches. Also check in the boot to see if the shell has the original boot floor brackets and that the gear linkage hole in the floor is correct and original. You can usually tell if it's a hole cut later and not properly finished around the edges.
I did also note that the ar has Coopre 'S' wheels which look like 4.5" reverse rims. Again not original, although desirable (maybe).
As Richy says, that is sure a lot of money to ask for a 997 or 998 and at that price you should be looking for total originality as well as quality of restoration. The lack of the vinyl makes me suspicious, but maybe I'm paranoid due to being in the middle of helping a guy who bought a 'genuine re-shelled 1970 Cooper S' off ebay and who is now faced with virtually a complete re-build just to get it to run. Original and genuine it will never be, but he has now paid out the sort of money for which he could have bought a genuine car.
By the way, there is a 1971 Mk 3 Cooper 'S' 1275 for sale in the MCR magazine this month, fully restored in 2005/6 and the asking price is £10,000 ono. Bear-in-mind that this is a genuine 'S'.
Caveat emptor, as always!
I hope all this helps,
Peter
Guys, thanks for all your inputs, I have alot to learn! Funnily enough, searching the internet I came across this ad: http://www.sussexsportscars.co.uk/detail.php?stock...
It does look nice, but this is the first I have been interested in, so I need to keep looking. I'll check out the car in MCR too.
Thanks again..
It does look nice, but this is the first I have been interested in, so I need to keep looking. I'll check out the car in MCR too.
Thanks again..
Take your time... do lots of research ... and don't get your fingers burnt if you are going for a restored period car.
Alternatively, get a later car, say "balls" to originality and concours (Damn toothbrush cleaning anally retentive mob that they are), drop a decent 1275 engine in and fit some decent brakes and voila, bingo etc
Alternatively, get a later car, say "balls" to originality and concours (Damn toothbrush cleaning anally retentive mob that they are), drop a decent 1275 engine in and fit some decent brakes and voila, bingo etc
FWDRacer said:
Take your time... do lots of research ... and don't get your fingers burnt if you are going for a restored period car.
Alternatively, get a later car, say "balls" to originality and concours (Damn toothbrush cleaning anally retentive mob that they are), drop a decent 1275 engine in and fit some decent brakes and voila, bingo etc
Agreed, especially about the toothbrush.....Alternatively, get a later car, say "balls" to originality and concours (Damn toothbrush cleaning anally retentive mob that they are), drop a decent 1275 engine in and fit some decent brakes and voila, bingo etc
But if you want an "investment" then it has to be perfect, period, all correct and unused.
Skyedriver said:
unused.
This is where the whole argument falls apart. What is the point of owning any Mini (classic included) if you can't have fun driving it? 
If you want an investment - get a classic Ferrari. Minis are all about the
Edited by FWDRacer on Tuesday 2nd September 13:38
I'm about to commit the sin of converting a 1966 Morris Mini 850 Basic to a Super de Luxe with dry suspension and a white roof (it's Island Blue). Discussion continues as to whether to fit 998 Coper Mk. 1 disc brakes as these are not that much better than the original drums. The advantage with the discs is that you don't need to keep on adjusting them.
However, I'm keeping the 850 engine and original type 3-syncro gearbox, but both completely re-built.
However, I'm keeping the 850 engine and original type 3-syncro gearbox, but both completely re-built.
FWDRacer said:
Skyedriver said:
unused.
This is where the whole argument falls apart. What is the point of owning any Mini (classic included) if you can't have fun driving it? If you want an investment - get a classic Ferrari. Minis are all about the
Edited by FWDRacer on Tuesday 2nd September 13:38
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