Viewed a TVR Chimaera today - (Pics of outriggers enclosed)

[V6Alfisti]

I viewed a Chimaera today, it was a 1998 R plate.

Somethings I noticed :-

The gap between the passenger door and the rear wing was almost a cm, whilst the drivers side was much tighter (due to hand built nature of the car? or some other reason?)

The rear drivers side wing had been sprayed at sometime in its life (very well), but you could see the edging when you opened the door (to be fair, this was probably quite normal considering the age of the car).

Otherwise paint seemed very good over the car, very bright with few blemishes (though noticed two minor areas around 1cm wide each *circular* with slight fraying on the edges, but I thought I heard these never came out of the factory perfect anyway?)

The outriggers had some surface rust on them (if I was looking at the right thing), but seemed solid (see pics below).

Front lower wishbones each had a little ding in the middle of them (normal for use of car? or will require replacement? (see pictures)

The car also only came with one key (new remote keyfob on order), should there be 2 keys/keyfobs?.

Service history every year or 6000 miles (minimum) with the exception of 99/04/07/08 (it covered about 3-6k miles between the services it did have), but it did have its oil changed every 3k miles for the last 2 years and is going in for a service this week. Would it be unreasonable to expect documented service history for at least a 12 month/6000 mile period? or do I face facts and except that due to the low mileages these cars often face, the owner sometimes skip one.

The wooden dash surround was a little bit split near the heater controls

Drivers side window, was slow to drop for the last 20% or so, otherwise all electrics seemed functional (had difficulty getting the heater fan to provide cool air?, but maybe that was me missing a trick).

At first idle, the car's pressure was 45lb, normal? (4.0 1998 model)

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4778/dsc00183aa...
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2959/dsc00184kn...
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9289/dsc00185lh...
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8606/dsc00186zs...
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3405/dsc00187jj...
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5267/dsc00188bk...
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/674/dsc00189oa0...

[adavy]

All fairly normal BUT
1. Depends on price
2. Surface rust can hide an awful lot
3. I would want a wad of receipts with it
4. If in ANY doubt walk away there are plenty of very good ones around
5. If you know very little about TVR's get someone who knows them to go with you or get it professionally inspected.

Time and care spent now can save you a lot of heartache and expense in the future

[tvrbob]

That chassis looks OK from what I can see. The flakiness appears to be superficial though obviously without a good poke around and a wheel off view of the tops of the outriggers it's impossible to conclude.

Viewing the tops of the outriggers usually reveals the quality of a chassis. Next time you look at one take a trolley jack and get the wheels off, it's the only way to see the outrigger top surfaces

[Zippee]

Those riggers don't look too bad, surface rust is fine as long as you do treat it before it gets worse! Looks like the owner has skipped a chassis treatment though, should really be done annually (mines done the start of each winter).
Chim windows are often slow and the oil pressures sound right.
Cold air is not a trait of the chim (comes from having a V8 radiator up front) though is OK when on the move.
Most TVRs will have had some paint at some point in their lives. Mine has for example, whole side re-spray due to my neighbour reversing into it - tiny 50p size dent in the fibreglass but crazed all the stuff underneath. More important is to ask why the paintwork and check for chassis damage.

Edited by Zippee on Monday 1st September 19:20

[V6Alfisti]

Thanks for the replies, will try and have a closer look (or better still a specialist).

Does anyone have an opinion on the wishbone? (one picture is clearer than the other), view about the service history? and missing keys/fobs?

I know when it came to service history with my previous cars, I would walk if it was missing one service, let alone 3 (as the 08 one is being done this week), but I guess it has covered very low miles in that time and oil changes done (for at least the last 2 of those years, making it 2 missed services (with the possibility that the oil was changed during the gaps).

It's on at £10000 with 37,000 miles on the clock. Though I have noticed that the only cars to sell are those priced at around £7-7.5k (with similar if 40k miles). So with the current climate not sure what is fair.

I also wasn't massively impressed by the new but budget enduro front tyres

Edited by V6Alfisti on Monday 1st September 19:37

[crackedfinger]

V6Alfisti said:

I also wasn't massively impressed by the new but budget enduro front tyres

Edited by V6Alfisti on Monday 1st September 19:37

always a bad sign - wonder what else they skimped on

[MADMAX2]

V6Alfisti said:

The wooden dash surround was a little bit split near the heater controls

that will be someone rushing to put the dashboard back in lol

[V6Alfisti]

MADMAX2 said:

V6Alfisti said:

The wooden dash surround was a little bit split near the heater controls

that will be someone rushing to put the dashboard back in lol

Sorry, is that a common problem with a chimaera?

Also as I mentioned above, is it normal that one door's panel gap is obviously tighter than th door on the opposite side?

Edited by V6Alfisti on Monday 1st September 22:37

[kenny Chim 4]

V6Alfisti said:

MADMAX2 said:

V6Alfisti said:

The wooden dash surround was a little bit split near the heater controls

that will be someone rushing to put the dashboard back in lol

Sorry, is that a common problem with a chimaera?

Also as I mentioned above, is it normal that one door's panel gap is obviously tighter than th door on the opposite side?

Edited by V6Alfisti on Monday 1st September 22:37

Yes and yes.
Due to heat and flexing, I'd bet that nearly all original Chimaera dash veneers are split somewhere- mine certainly is but it's not a priority to fix it- even though I work in the same building as the best bloke to repair it: www.london-carriage-craft.com/

The door hinges tend to sag over time leading to what looks like a panel gap. This is easily remedied by adjusting the bolts on each of the two hinges- easier done whilst someone holds the door at the correct height.

[Cider Andy]

By 1998 the build quality was good. I'd expect the shut lines to match either side, but it's possible one (or both) doors have been adjusted at some time in its life. This ought to be repairable by adjustment.

At this age I wouldn't worry that it's had some paintwork done. I wouldn't think it had left the factory in 1998 with blemishes.

What you can see of the outriggers appears in keeping with the car's age. But to some extent it's pot luck: they tend to start rotting on top of the tubes near the corners, out of sight.

The car would originally have had two keys but I'd think it fairly normal for any car of this age for one of them to have been lost (spare key in the bottom of a drawer or lost in a house move or whatever.

Service history looks ok to me. It might be better to have a mountain of receipts but it sounds like it's been looked after generally. It wouldn't put me off if the car looks clean.

The dash veneer does tend to split especially if the car's been standing for any period of time in anything other than a bone-dry environment, although there are older cars out there with an original dash in good condition.

Window lifters can need regular maintenance (silicon spray in the guides, lithium grease sprayed in the mechanicals). Other than that they're fairly reliable.

The heater control closes a coolant valve to stop hot water going into the matrix. If you switch it from hot to cold it takes a little while to cool the matrix. This valve might also need adjusting to close it properly when 'cold' is selected.

Oil pressure can be very subjective and should only be used as a guide. As it's showing 45 PSI at cold idle I'd expect that to drop to around 10 - 15 PSI at hot idle, but it really is just a guide.

[mchenryg]

Hi, I have recently bought a 97 4.5 with 40ishk on the clock. As detailed above you must have the outriggers checked by an expert, especially the top part which is very difficult to get to without wheels off.
A car of that age will have some little bits of work done to the paintwork but check for cracking around the back panels, if it has been in a prang then a twist will cause any cracking. Glad to hear that it is having a 12k service before you buy. I had to get one done literally just after and it cost me a good £500. All in all, if the chassis holds up and it has a service and has receipts then the car will be good. You can always learn as you go and have little things done along the way. As for tyres, I wouldnt worry. If it has only done around 5k in the last few years then there was no point in putting expensive tyres on. One can pick up Toyos very cheaply now and there are not classed as scrimping IMO. Good luck and I hope its 'Blue'. Clearly the fastest

[HRG]

The outriggers will go just to the right of my digit at each of the body mounts... Very hard to inspect without raising the body.

[V6Alfisti]

Thanks again for all the replies (very useful!)

I would want the car re-mot'd before final purchase, and would be able to check the upper part of the outriggers then.

I am still a little concerned about the door gap being out (I have looked at a couple that have failed on other points, but not the door gaps) and ideally wanted a 100% complete history (ie. every year), but I think I may need to resign myself to the fact that this is often the case (but still adjust the price to reflect this).

[shadowninja]

crackedfinger said:

V6Alfisti said:

I also wasn't massively impressed by the new but budget enduro front tyres

Edited by V6Alfisti on Monday 1st September 19:37

always a bad sign - wonder what else they skimped on

In fairness, I always used budget tyres on my old Chimaera but whenever there was a problem, it was straight to the dealer/service garage or specialist. What you have here is a real man who can handle a TVR with low grip tyres.

[Zippee]

TBH the door gap is quite common - as is the fact doors can be hard to shut or be out of line etc.
These are/were hand built cars and the level of precision just isn't the same as a robotic production line produced car.

You sound like you're after a concours example or absolutely the best? If so maybe you need to up your budget a little? There are some bloody good examples out there but in the main they are priced above the average. For 7k you can expect to find a reasonable (possibly tatty round the edges) example but be aware that many people have come unstuck when the cheap bargain they've found throws up some expensive horrors.
9-10k should get you a good example of a 97-99 facelift model, full history and well looked after but showing signs of use.
11k plus will get you either one of the last chims or the pick of the best from 97 onwards.

[dumbfunk]

The doors are adjustable and so it probably just needs the hinges resetting. Remember that the design is such that you can't see the position of the leading edge of the door so can't tell where it is in relation to the body.

Panel gaps don't indicate crash damage in the same way that they do on steel monocoque bodies. Do you have some photos of the rest of the car? We may be able to say more?


dumbfunk

[V6Alfisti]

Zippee said:

TBH the door gap is quite common - as is the fact doors can be hard to shut or be out of line etc.
These are/were hand built cars and the level of precision just isn't the same as a robotic production line produced car.

You sound like you're after a concours example or absolutely the best? If so maybe you need to up your budget a little? There are some bloody good examples out there but in the main they are priced above the average. For 7k you can expect to find a reasonable (possibly tatty round the edges) example but be aware that many people have come unstuck when the cheap bargain they've found throws up some expensive horrors.
9-10k should get you a good example of a 97-99 facelift model, full history and well looked after but showing signs of use.
11k plus will get you either one of the last chims or the pick of the best from 97 onwards.

My last car was pretty much concours, so I guess I am still in that frame of mind, but realistically looking at a good example with a couple of minor glitches, which I guess the lack of 100% service history , paint work, budget tyres (only on the front)and a door that is out (but can be adjusted) would reflect.

Thanks for the price boundaries, I was thinking along the same lines.

[V6Alfisti]

dumbfunk said:

The doors are adjustable and so it probably just needs the hinges resetting. Remember that the design is such that you can't see the position of the leading edge of the door so can't tell where it is in relation to the body.

Panel gaps don't indicate crash damage in the same way that they do on steel monocoque bodies. Do you have some photos of the rest of the car? We may be able to say more?


dumbfunk

That was also one of my considerations (crash damage), I would never own an accident damaged car - they are never quite the same.

Unfortunately my phone ran out of space, so I don't have any pictures of the panel gaps >

Is the damage to the wishbones normal? (I have highlighted the dink - similar on both sides and bit more noticable in real life)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2106/wishbonecg...

[Zippee]

V6Alfisti said:

My last car was pretty much concours, so I guess I am still in that frame of mind, but realistically looking at a good example with a couple of minor glitches, which I guess the lack of 100% service history , paint work, budget tyres (only on the front)and a door that is out (but can be adjusted) would reflect.

Thanks for the price boundaries, I was thinking along the same lines.

Not a problem - also worth remembering these cars are very susceptible (sp?) to stone chips and you'd be hard pressed to find an example thats been used regularly that doesn't have any.
Other very common problems - windscreen will often de-laminate in the corners (white clouding on the black trim) & windows as you've mentioned can be slow
Wipers can stick on dry windows so bear that in mind if you try them out on a hot day (the wiper motors are not the strongest units)
I wouldn't be too concerned about budget tyres alone - doesn't always mean servicing has been sacrificed but I would change them ASAP.

My car fits into the middle bracket I mentioned - good chassis & strong engine but does have the slow window (passenger), delmination on the screen and a few stonechips. Looking around dealers etc I've seen far tattier examples for a lot more money.

[ray_von]

V6Alfisti said:

Is the damage to the wishbones normal? (I have highlighted the dink - similar on both sides and bit more noticable in real life)

Unsympathetic lifting of car? especially if on both sides