using more ancillary belts than petrol!
Discussion
it is pretty much the case that i really am using more belts than fuel, i have got through 5 of them in the last couple of hundred miles or so!
it all started when i removed the "gates 1708" belt as it was squeeling.
first two replacements were continental 1705 long and the next three bosch also 1708. all stripped into thin belts within 50 miles or so. when i say thin belts what i mean is preety much along the line of the ribs so i end up with four or five bits of belt still in a loop but only 5mm or so wide.
i have done the following
1) inspected each pully for sharp edges
2) run a scriber round each pully track to ensure no stones present
3) confirmed alternator is tightly fixed
4) ensured each time that belt runs true and straight
this is beginning to bug me now as i cant see what more i can do and it is obvious that soemthing is wrong.
i am going to order from the uk a couple of "gates" belts when i can find a mail order supplier and try these. maybe something daft like the contental and bosch belts have a different profile in the V section, dunno really. car was fine with the gates belt on it though just squeeled
any advice would be greatly apprecialed
cheers
sean
it all started when i removed the "gates 1708" belt as it was squeeling.
first two replacements were continental 1705 long and the next three bosch also 1708. all stripped into thin belts within 50 miles or so. when i say thin belts what i mean is preety much along the line of the ribs so i end up with four or five bits of belt still in a loop but only 5mm or so wide.
i have done the following
1) inspected each pully for sharp edges
2) run a scriber round each pully track to ensure no stones present
3) confirmed alternator is tightly fixed
4) ensured each time that belt runs true and straight
this is beginning to bug me now as i cant see what more i can do and it is obvious that soemthing is wrong.
i am going to order from the uk a couple of "gates" belts when i can find a mail order supplier and try these. maybe something daft like the contental and bosch belts have a different profile in the V section, dunno really. car was fine with the gates belt on it though just squeeled
any advice would be greatly apprecialed
cheers
sean
jetstream said:
The belt type I think is a PK6, the six being the number of ribs and the rest of the part number is normaly the lenth, so I think its PK6 1708 and ask for a gates belt.
Hope that helps.
yep thats refreshed my memory cheers, have found a german website which sells gates and ordered two, hopefully here by wednesday,Hope that helps.
fingers crossed they dont shread
sean_goodman said:
wish i just put up with the squeeling now!
make sure the belt is on the last groove and looks like it is touching the cam cover, and is dead staight on the aircon pulley, it sounds like you have been putting the belts on in the wrong place, it really doesnt take much, one groove out will shred the belt, i've done it.Adrian W said:
sean_goodman said:
wish i just put up with the squeeling now!
make sure the belt is on the last groove and looks like it is touching the cam cover, and is dead staight on the aircon pulley, it sounds like you have been putting the belts on in the wrong place, it really doesnt take much, one groove out will shred the belt, i've done it.from memory when belt is on pump pully it is running furthest away from where you are standing. ie closest to the pump with the free track on the pully being furthest away from the pump. if that makes sence.
have UMed and ARed over this a few times but am pretty sure that is correct, perhaps a photo from some kind chap to confirm as its only this pully which is wider than the belt all the others fit snuggly
Adrian W said:
Im not near my car at the moment, one other problem i found was that the belt origonaly fitted was not the one specified and turned out to be shorter, have you got the first belt, if so measure it.
the belt i took off was a gates 1708 long, i couldnt get them at the time over here so i have been using continental and bosch at 1705 long.have now ordered two gates belts at same length as origionally fitted.
have just flicked through the build manual and can confirm i found a pic showing the belt running as i suggested above ie on the furthest away portion of the air con pully.
a pretty sure i have been having it in the right place, what was abit concerning though was that in the pics at the end of the manual where all the parts are shown, the piture of the belt is a bosch part exactly same as i have had and both shreaded.
i have absolutely no idea why it is shreading belts, was pinning my hat on that the grooves in these belts were a bit shallower than the gates belt and that the tracks were bottoming out in the V causing it to cut.
now i have seen the bosch belt in the manual i am not so sure. really annoying as i cant work out what else it could be
I've never seen anything that suggests these "dressing" sprays are anything but silicon....
It's a myth that silicon makes things "slip". Silicon is a really bad at doing that, what it does do is when silicon meets silicon it will mate almost perfectly and hence you don't get the noise. If you apply pressure to a joint lubricated by silicon you'll actually find it almost worse than with nothing - at a certain pressure silicon "locks up". It's why we use it in so many of the moving components we have in our designs - you get very low losses with excellent performance.......
J
It's a myth that silicon makes things "slip". Silicon is a really bad at doing that, what it does do is when silicon meets silicon it will mate almost perfectly and hence you don't get the noise. If you apply pressure to a joint lubricated by silicon you'll actually find it almost worse than with nothing - at a certain pressure silicon "locks up". It's why we use it in so many of the moving components we have in our designs - you get very low losses with excellent performance.......
J
joust said:
It's a myth that silicon makes things "slip".
The manufacturers of silicon lube would seem to be helping sustain that myth by marketing it as a lubricant?The belt dressing spray I use claims to contain 'Aliphatic hydrocarbon solvents, resins and hydrocarbon propellant'. I would be a bit surprised to see a lubricant in there.
On the original problem, if the belt is misaligned it will tend to carry the tension on one edge. This would put much higher stresses than the belt was designed for, and if it's going to fail mechanically I guess it makes sense that it would fail at the groove. It might also be that the groove spacing is wrong, or the grooves aren't the right angle or depth, causing the pulleys to rip the belt apart sideways.
Edited by GreenV8S on Monday 8th September 22:48
On the original problem, if the belt is misaligned it will tend to carry the tension on one edge. This would put much higher stresses than the belt was designed for, and if it's going to fail mechanically I guess it makes sense that it would fail at the groove. It might also be that the groove spacing is wrong, or the grooves aren't the right angle or depth, causing the pulleys to rip the belt apart sideways.
Edited by GreenV8S on Monday 8th September 22:48
[/quote]
agree, but note
all seems aligned correctly, belt used was one detailed in build manual (USA) so one must assume correct groove spacing / depth etc.
really wierd as all checks out ok at the moment but it still shreads belts.
hopefully the gates belts will arrive today, and if i get time at the weekend i think i might take the alternator and air con pump off and refit checking for perfect alignment on any play i might have in mounting holes
sean_goodman said:
GreenV8S said:
Could it possibly be a case of simply too much tension?
how could that occur? tensioner is automatic, either hydraulic or sprung not sure which but would guess hydraulic By comparing your shredded belts with the new ones can you tell whether they have suffered much wear i.e. by comparing the total thickness at the thickest point?
sean_goodman said:
Adrian W said:
sean_goodman said:
wish i just put up with the squeeling now!
make sure the belt is on the last groove and looks like it is touching the cam cover, and is dead staight on the aircon pulley, it sounds like you have been putting the belts on in the wrong place, it really doesnt take much, one groove out will shred the belt, i've done it.been away for a couple of days but back now and new belts were waiting in the post. interestingly enough the gates belt is 1mm narrower than the ones from bosch and continental that i have been having problems with.
so hopefully the belt shearing problems were due to rubbing edges.
must say the gates belt does seem to fit through the pullys better, leaving a half mil of so betwen belt edge and pully walls
have fitted the belt and need to get some miles done to confirm if its going to shread again or not
fingers crossed
so hopefully the belt shearing problems were due to rubbing edges.
must say the gates belt does seem to fit through the pullys better, leaving a half mil of so betwen belt edge and pully walls
have fitted the belt and need to get some miles done to confirm if its going to shread again or not
fingers crossed
Edited by sean_goodman on Tuesday 16th September 07:38
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