List of FIA "incidents"

[Gold]

Just wondering how many cases of undeniable bias we have seen from the FIA:

• 1999 Ferrari Barge Boards

• USA 2005 (tire controversy)

• Hungary 2006 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM

• 2006 Renault Mass Damper

• 2006 Alonso 'blocking' Massa

• Australia 2007 (illegal movable floor on ferraris)

• Hungary 2007 (qualifying spat and loss of constructors point)

• Spy Scandal 2007

• Monaco 2008 (Kimi's crash with Sutil)

• France 08

• European GP 2008 (Massa penalty, Kimi pitstop incident)

• Spa 2008 (Hamilton penalty)

Could think of these off my head but how many other cases have there been?

Edited by Gold on Sunday 7th September 18:18

Edited by Gold on Sunday 7th September 18:21

[anonymous-user]

i am not sure that i can agree the monaco incident warranted a penalty. there is a danger that after any incident involving a ferrari everyone will demand a penalty. as far as i cansee, it was during the race and though it was bad driving by kimi, a penalty would have been unfair. soon you will want penalties for every driver who takes another one out and the point of racing will be lost. if you punish every failed overtaking manoeuvre or every moment of "brain fade" you run the risk of creating a 90 minute procession where drivers are too scared to commit to a move in case they get it wrong and end up with a penalty, effectively qualifying decides the result. though i appreciate, and reiterate, it was poor driving from kimi, it didnt deserve a penalty.

cant argue with the rest though...

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 7th September 18:02

[kevin ritson]

Couple more for the list:

2006 Renault Mass Damper
2006 Alonso 'blocking' Massa
1999 Ferrari Barge Boards

[Cara Van Man]

France 08.

Both Heikki and Lewis getting penalties. In facvt Lewis had 2, one drive through and 1 for the grid penalty.

[kevin ritson]

Cara Van Man said:

France 08.

Both Heikki and Lewis getting penalties. In facvt Lewis had 2, one drive through and 1 for the grid penalty.

And Raikkonen not getting a black and orange flag for having a mechanical issue with his car

[DangerousMike]

we should make this a wiki, I was thinking of making a website to collate them all earlier

[s2ooz]

we should add the penalty that was received as well - as they appear harsher for mclarens..
also notes of where ferrari DIDNT get fined. (exhaust flapping off??)

Edited by s2ooz on Sunday 7th September 18:50

[AlexS]

Though no penalties were given there is also the

'wide' Michelin tyres (cannot remember year) but rules changed after Ferrari protest.

McLaren fiddle brake ('98), deemed legal by the FIA at the start of the season, banned after protest to race stewards by Ferrari.

[Fortitude]

At the end of one of the British Grand Prixs, Schumacher crossed the finish line in the pit lane and then did his 'ordered' 10 second penalty stop at the Ferrari pit (after crossing the finish line), came out the pit lane in front of the second car which had already de-accelerated after passing the finish line. That was the biggest farce which has been almost forgotten....

Ferrari, FIA again?

[rdjohn]

To be frank, I think that the most recent incidents. 2007, 2008 seasons are directed from Moseley to Dennis.

I say this because I just cannot believe that the problem is because "Lewis is black"!!

Today, I believe that I watched a great race that had a fair and logical outcome. Prizes were awarded and celebrations were made in front of millions of TV spectators. Charlie Whiting has years of experience to decide, what is fair and what is wrong

It is the FIA Stewards (Moseley cronies) that are bringing this sport into disrepute!!

[tomTVR]

Gold said:

• USA 2005 (tire controversy)

• Spy Scandal 2007

• France 08

Hold on a minute all you are doing is listing incidents - there was no 'undeniable bias' in any of these FFS. You lot do get carried away with yourselves.

[Derek Smith]

rdjohn said:

To be frank, I think that the most recent incidents. 2007, 2008 seasons are directed from Moseley to Dennis.

I say this because I just cannot believe that the problem is because "Lewis is black"!!

Today, I believe that I watched a great race that had a fair and logical outcome. Prizes were awarded and celebrations were made in front of millions of TV spectators. Charlie Whiting has years of experience to decide, what is fair and what is wrong

It is the FIA Stewards (Moseley cronies) that are bringing this sport into disrepute!!

Mosley in his youth was arrested in possession of pickaxe handles and knuckle dusters en route to an anti apartheid demonstrations. There was, I believe, some doubt that he was intending to support the ethos of the march.

i have often felt that Mosley does have a colour prejudice, although it more to do with those that are not red.

[Gold]

tomTVR said:

Gold said:

• USA 2005 (tire controversy)

• Spy Scandal 2007

• France 08

Hold on a minute all you are doing is listing incidents - there was no 'undeniable bias' in any of these FFS. You lot do get carried away with yourselves.

• USA - only one team strongly insisted that there shouldn't be a chicane.

• Spy Scandal - the evidence was that Renault committed exactly the offense, why did they get off with it? (Oh wait they weren't beating Ferrari)

• France 08 - pieces of exhaust flying off your car. How the hell didn't Kimi get flagged, 18 other drivers would have.

[s2ooz]

Coulthard has punted or been punted off with dodgy undertaking on bends most of this season - did his offendees get drive throughs like HK?? no.

[ZeeTacoe]

Gold said:

• USA - only one team strongly insisted that there shouldn't be a chicane.

I always thought Ferrari stayed quiet during that and didn't go either way.

[LocoBlade]

I think its probably just as relevent to narrow it down to incidents that have/should have got the stewards involved this season...

I did mention this in the main Spa thread but it got buried and its more relevent here

First off go through the punished incidents
For Mclaren we have....
Malaysia
- Both cars judged to have blocked Heidfeld on his qualifying lap - 5 grid penalties each
France
- Lewis given 10 spot grid penalty for hitting Raikkonen in Canada
- Heikki given 5(?) spot grid penalty for blocking Webber in Q1. Webber qualified for Q2 anyway.
- Lewis given drive through penalty for jumping the chicane and overtaking Vettel.
Belguim
- Heikki gets drivethrough for ambitious overtaking manouvre on Webber
- Lewis gets post race 25 second penalty for the Raikkonen incident

For Ferrari we have


Now to the unpunished incidents this year
For Mclaren we have.....


For Ferrari we have
France
- Kimi's exhaust hanging off for half the race
Monaco
- Kimi punts Sutil out of the race
Valencia
- Massa cuts Sutil up in the pits (a fine doesn't count as punishment!)
Any more? Can't remember but there may have been.

So out of 10 incidents in total, Mclaren commited 7, and got punished with race affecting penalties for all 7. Ferrari committed 3 and were punished for none of them.

Im not saying Ferrari should have been punished for those three incidents or that Mclaren should have got away with all of theirs, but the fact that Mclaren have not been let off ANY of their indiscretions speaks volumes to me.

Edited by LocoBlade on Monday 8th September 21:35

[E30M3SE]

LocoBlade said:

For Ferrari we have

Your obviously suffering from selective recall,

Monaco 2008 Kimi Raikkonen drive through penalty for not having tyres on the car three minutes before the warm/parade lap due to commence.

[E30M3SE]

Gold said:

tomTVR said:

Gold said:

• USA 2005 (tire controversy)

• Spy Scandal 2007

• France 08

Hold on a minute all you are doing is listing incidents - there was no 'undeniable bias' in any of these FFS. You lot do get carried away with yourselves.

• USA - only one team strongly insisted that there shouldn't be a chicane.

Any why was it that a chicane was being proposed????


Because the tyre maufacture that a lot of the other teams had chosen to use turned up will a tyre that was not upto the job, that manufacturer being Michelin.

Three weeks ago we nearly saw a repeat of this in Motogp when Dani Pedrosa's camp wanted all the Michelin runners to pull out of a race due to their tyres being , well, crap, but they chose not to do this and went round as quickly and safely as the tyres would allow, which was an option open to the F1 guy's.

Gold said:

• Spy Scandal - the evidence was that Renault committed exactly the offense, why did they get off with it? (Oh wait they weren't beating Ferrari)

IMO Renault should have been punished also

Edited by E30M3SE on Tuesday 9th September 11:21

[flemke]

E30M3SE said:

Gold said:

tomTVR said:

Gold said:

• USA 2005 (tire controversy)

• Spy Scandal 2007

• France 08

Hold on a minute all you are doing is listing incidents - there was no 'undeniable bias' in any of these FFS. You lot do get carried away with yourselves.

• USA - only one team strongly insisted that there shouldn't be a chicane.

Any why was it that a chicane was being proposed????


Because the tyre maufacture that a lot of the other teams had chosen to use turned up will a tyre that was not upto the job, that manufacturer being Michelin.

Three weeks ago we nearly saw a repeat of this in Motogp when Dani Pedrosa's camp wanted all the Michelin runners to pull out of a race due to their tyres being , well, crap, but they chose not to do this and went round as quickly and safely as the tyres would allow, which was an option open to the F1 guy's.

You seem to be missing the point(s):

1.) The issue at Indy was not that the Michelins were slow, it was that they were dangerous. Michelin would not allow their teams to race on the tyres that they had brought, which were Michelin property. It was not a question of the tyres' being "crap" in the sense of being uncompetitive.

2.) Early on the Michelin teams agreed that they would not seek race points for themselves. They offered to race for no points, but they couldn't race at all without a chicane. From that moment forwards, a Ferrari victory with maximum points was inevitable.
All the Michelin teams wanted to do was to look after the fans by at least being able to run a proper show.
Ferrari could have supported a chicane and no points for the Michelin runners, as that would have had no material effect on Ferrari themselves. They did not do so, presumably because to keep the Michelin teams off the circuit entirely would have been more embarrassing to them. Ferrari manifestly did not care about the fans' interests.
For its part, the FIA (specifically Mosley, who was calling the tune from his home in Monaco) refused to allow a race with a chicane. His motives appeared to be the same as Ferrari's - maximum humiliation for the Michelin teams, indifference to the fans, plus an unforgettable reminder of who was Da Boss.

[Stuismyname]

You can't include Kimi in Monaco as an example of Ferrari bias in its own right - to have given Kimi a penalty there would have been as ridiculous as Lewis' penalty in Spa.

However, I would agree that it serves to further contextualise the Spa penalty.