Planning application and work being completed beforehand
Discussion
Chaps,
A quickie.
A local neighbour has applied for planning permission for work to be done on their house. Various people were notified by letter, and signs were tied to local trees.
I wrote to the eMail address given for comment, asking for more detail of what was planned, and observing that it looks like the work for which permission is being sought has already been carried out.
I recieved this reply from the council by eMail just now:
1. (Obvious one.) It seems that the work has been done before the planning permission process has been completed. This would seem to be naughty to me ... is it legal?
2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
Oli.
A quickie.
A local neighbour has applied for planning permission for work to be done on their house. Various people were notified by letter, and signs were tied to local trees.
I wrote to the eMail address given for comment, asking for more detail of what was planned, and observing that it looks like the work for which permission is being sought has already been carried out.
I recieved this reply from the council by eMail just now:
Council eMail said:
Dear Mr zcacogp,
Re: <Address in Question>
Having carried out a site visit, it is apparent that the work has been carried out. The details of the planning application can be viewed on the Council's website (www.councilname.gov.uk) in addition to hard copies being available at the Council offices for viewing.
With regard to consultation, the Council is required to notify adjoining properties either by letter (letters were sent to a wider area than those just adjoining the site) or by displaying a site notice. In this instance we have done both and have therefore gone beyond our statutory duty.
I hope this is of assistance. The site notice was displayed on 9 September 2008 and provides three weeks from the date of the notice for comment (consultation period expires 30 September 2008).
So, two questions (one of which is pretty obvious). Re: <Address in Question>
Having carried out a site visit, it is apparent that the work has been carried out. The details of the planning application can be viewed on the Council's website (www.councilname.gov.uk) in addition to hard copies being available at the Council offices for viewing.
With regard to consultation, the Council is required to notify adjoining properties either by letter (letters were sent to a wider area than those just adjoining the site) or by displaying a site notice. In this instance we have done both and have therefore gone beyond our statutory duty.
I hope this is of assistance. The site notice was displayed on 9 September 2008 and provides three weeks from the date of the notice for comment (consultation period expires 30 September 2008).
1. (Obvious one.) It seems that the work has been done before the planning permission process has been completed. This would seem to be naughty to me ... is it legal?
2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Chaps,
A quickie.
A local neighbour has applied for planning permission for work to be done on their house. Various people were notified by letter, and signs were tied to local trees.
I wrote to the eMail address given for comment, asking for more detail of what was planned, and observing that it looks like the work for which permission is being sought has already been carried out.
I recieved this reply from the council by eMail just now:
1. (Obvious one.) It seems that the work has been done before the planning permission process has been completed. This would seem to be naughty to me ... is it legal?
2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
Oli.
Go down the planning office and raise hell. Inform them you wish to make a written complaint in the strongest terms.A quickie.
A local neighbour has applied for planning permission for work to be done on their house. Various people were notified by letter, and signs were tied to local trees.
I wrote to the eMail address given for comment, asking for more detail of what was planned, and observing that it looks like the work for which permission is being sought has already been carried out.
I recieved this reply from the council by eMail just now:
Council eMail said:
Dear Mr zcacogp,
Re: <Address in Question>
Having carried out a site visit, it is apparent that the work has been carried out. The details of the planning application can be viewed on the Council's website (www.councilname.gov.uk) in addition to hard copies being available at the Council offices for viewing.
With regard to consultation, the Council is required to notify adjoining properties either by letter (letters were sent to a wider area than those just adjoining the site) or by displaying a site notice. In this instance we have done both and have therefore gone beyond our statutory duty.
I hope this is of assistance. The site notice was displayed on 9 September 2008 and provides three weeks from the date of the notice for comment (consultation period expires 30 September 2008).
So, two questions (one of which is pretty obvious). Re: <Address in Question>
Having carried out a site visit, it is apparent that the work has been carried out. The details of the planning application can be viewed on the Council's website (www.councilname.gov.uk) in addition to hard copies being available at the Council offices for viewing.
With regard to consultation, the Council is required to notify adjoining properties either by letter (letters were sent to a wider area than those just adjoining the site) or by displaying a site notice. In this instance we have done both and have therefore gone beyond our statutory duty.
I hope this is of assistance. The site notice was displayed on 9 September 2008 and provides three weeks from the date of the notice for comment (consultation period expires 30 September 2008).
1. (Obvious one.) It seems that the work has been done before the planning permission process has been completed. This would seem to be naughty to me ... is it legal?
2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Chaps,
A quickie.
A local neighbour has applied for planning permission for work to be done on their house. Various people were notified by letter, and signs were tied to local trees.
I wrote to the eMail address given for comment, asking for more detail of what was planned, and observing that it looks like the work for which permission is being sought has already been carried out.
I recieved this reply from the council by eMail just now:
1. (Obvious one.) It seems that the work has been done before the planning permission process has been completed. This would seem to be naughty to me ... is it legal?
2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
Oli.
Check the detail of the notice. It's entirely possible they're applying for retrospective permission for work they notified the council as having already done.A quickie.
A local neighbour has applied for planning permission for work to be done on their house. Various people were notified by letter, and signs were tied to local trees.
I wrote to the eMail address given for comment, asking for more detail of what was planned, and observing that it looks like the work for which permission is being sought has already been carried out.
I recieved this reply from the council by eMail just now:
Council eMail said:
Dear Mr zcacogp,
Re: <Address in Question>
Having carried out a site visit, it is apparent that the work has been carried out. The details of the planning application can be viewed on the Council's website (www.councilname.gov.uk) in addition to hard copies being available at the Council offices for viewing.
With regard to consultation, the Council is required to notify adjoining properties either by letter (letters were sent to a wider area than those just adjoining the site) or by displaying a site notice. In this instance we have done both and have therefore gone beyond our statutory duty.
I hope this is of assistance. The site notice was displayed on 9 September 2008 and provides three weeks from the date of the notice for comment (consultation period expires 30 September 2008).
So, two questions (one of which is pretty obvious). Re: <Address in Question>
Having carried out a site visit, it is apparent that the work has been carried out. The details of the planning application can be viewed on the Council's website (www.councilname.gov.uk) in addition to hard copies being available at the Council offices for viewing.
With regard to consultation, the Council is required to notify adjoining properties either by letter (letters were sent to a wider area than those just adjoining the site) or by displaying a site notice. In this instance we have done both and have therefore gone beyond our statutory duty.
I hope this is of assistance. The site notice was displayed on 9 September 2008 and provides three weeks from the date of the notice for comment (consultation period expires 30 September 2008).
1. (Obvious one.) It seems that the work has been done before the planning permission process has been completed. This would seem to be naughty to me ... is it legal?
2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
Oli.
Tom
zcacogp said:
Chaps,
A quickie.
A local neighbour has applied for planning permission for work to be done on their house. Various people were notified by letter, and signs were tied to local trees.
I wrote to the eMail address given for comment, asking for more detail of what was planned, and observing that it looks like the work for which permission is being sought has already been carried out.
I recieved this reply from the council by eMail just now:
1. (Obvious one.) It seems that the work has been done before the planning permission process has been completed. This would seem to be naughty to me ... is it legal?
2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
Oli.
There will have been notices pinned to lamp-posts etc in the area...did you see them? Does the building/alteration affect you at all? Plans can usually be viewed at the council offices (our LC has them on the web so you don't even have to travel to see what's in the pipeline).As to work being carried out before PP is given,it's a risk some people take..they may be made to take the work down if retrospective PP isn't given...A quickie.
A local neighbour has applied for planning permission for work to be done on their house. Various people were notified by letter, and signs were tied to local trees.
I wrote to the eMail address given for comment, asking for more detail of what was planned, and observing that it looks like the work for which permission is being sought has already been carried out.
I recieved this reply from the council by eMail just now:
Council eMail said:
Dear Mr zcacogp,
Re: <Address in Question>
Having carried out a site visit, it is apparent that the work has been carried out. The details of the planning application can be viewed on the Council's website (www.councilname.gov.uk) in addition to hard copies being available at the Council offices for viewing.
With regard to consultation, the Council is required to notify adjoining properties either by letter (letters were sent to a wider area than those just adjoining the site) or by displaying a site notice. In this instance we have done both and have therefore gone beyond our statutory duty.
I hope this is of assistance. The site notice was displayed on 9 September 2008 and provides three weeks from the date of the notice for comment (consultation period expires 30 September 2008).
So, two questions (one of which is pretty obvious). Re: <Address in Question>
Having carried out a site visit, it is apparent that the work has been carried out. The details of the planning application can be viewed on the Council's website (www.councilname.gov.uk) in addition to hard copies being available at the Council offices for viewing.
With regard to consultation, the Council is required to notify adjoining properties either by letter (letters were sent to a wider area than those just adjoining the site) or by displaying a site notice. In this instance we have done both and have therefore gone beyond our statutory duty.
I hope this is of assistance. The site notice was displayed on 9 September 2008 and provides three weeks from the date of the notice for comment (consultation period expires 30 September 2008).
1. (Obvious one.) It seems that the work has been done before the planning permission process has been completed. This would seem to be naughty to me ... is it legal?
2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
Oli.
Vesuvius 996 said:
If it was done before the permission was granted they may very well have to knock it down.
Go down and complain. Now.
We need to know what's been built really before telling him to complain...IMHO anyway...a conservatory being built onto a house 80 yards away wouldn't really bother me..Go down and complain. Now.
zcacogp said:
So, two questions (one of which is pretty obvious).
1. (Obvious one.) It seems that the work has been done before the planning permission process has been completed. This would seem to be naughty to me ... is it legal?
2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
Oli.
1) Yes, they can apply for planning permission restrospectively.1. (Obvious one.) It seems that the work has been done before the planning permission process has been completed. This would seem to be naughty to me ... is it legal?
2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
Oli.
2) Consultees are generally adjoining properties only; maybe a couple more either side if you're lucky.
zcacogp said:
1. (Obvious one.) It seems that the work has been done before the planning permission process has been completed. This would seem to be naughty to me ... is it legal?
2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
They shouldn't build before planning permission - but it is their risk. If the council refuses the application and they lose an appeal they may have to demolish or put it back to how it was.2. How wide an area do they need to consult with? You'll have spotted the bit in the eMail about consultation.) I live around 80 yards up the road, on the opposite side, but didn't get a letter. Should I have been consulted? I am guessing not, as they speak only of 'adjoining properties.'
The council have to either put a site notice up or send letters or both. The minimum is to put a site notice outside the site, or at the back or anywhere where there could be affected neighbours
Retrospective planning application not unusual.
My neighbour built an extension, came round and old me what he intended to do before work started and gave me a copy of the plans, telling me that it was small enough to satisfy the criteria for Permitted Development Rights, so no planning application required.
For practical reasons they had to build the roof slightly higher than intended, meaning that the increase in volume was slightly greater than the upper limit of that allowed under PDR. Council building control officer picked up on this and insisted on a full retrospective planning application.
As others have said, if rejected it would have to come down.
My neighbour built an extension, came round and old me what he intended to do before work started and gave me a copy of the plans, telling me that it was small enough to satisfy the criteria for Permitted Development Rights, so no planning application required.
For practical reasons they had to build the roof slightly higher than intended, meaning that the increase in volume was slightly greater than the upper limit of that allowed under PDR. Council building control officer picked up on this and insisted on a full retrospective planning application.
As others have said, if rejected it would have to come down.
Bloody hell, people are pretty quick to start giving off.
I work in planning, and retrospective applications are extremely common - usually just because the applicant didn't think they needed permission when they first built the thing, or more likely had been advised the development was likely to be approved so took the chance.
Obviously every site is different, but unless there are major issues with the size or siting of the conservatory the chances are it will be approved.
Yes the applicant broke planning regs by building it in the first place. But he is rectifying that by getting retrospective permission.
Also its usually a last resort to start handing out demolition orders - its usually the way to try and find a compromise, e.g. making a slight alteration to the offending building like dropping the roof height or frosting over-looking windows to make it more acceptable.
I work in planning, and retrospective applications are extremely common - usually just because the applicant didn't think they needed permission when they first built the thing, or more likely had been advised the development was likely to be approved so took the chance.
Obviously every site is different, but unless there are major issues with the size or siting of the conservatory the chances are it will be approved.
Yes the applicant broke planning regs by building it in the first place. But he is rectifying that by getting retrospective permission.
Also its usually a last resort to start handing out demolition orders - its usually the way to try and find a compromise, e.g. making a slight alteration to the offending building like dropping the roof height or frosting over-looking windows to make it more acceptable.
Chaps,
Thanks for your replies.
As far as the 'should I have been notified' question, it looks like that has been answered. We are not adjoining, and there have been notices tied to local trees. So that's that one done with.
Don't know where the idea of a conservatory comes from Mike400 - the work in question is to a bay window at the front of the house. Street is georgian terraces, with a bay window at ground floor level. The properties all have coal cellars.
The cellar has been converted to living space previously, and the application (and work done) has been to dig out the front of the house and extend the bay window down, into the dug-out space, creating a bay that is much higher (or, more accurately, which starts much lower down.)
I have looked on the council website, as they told me I could find details there, but it doesn't come up in any searches. (I suspect this is an admin error rather than anything else.)
I don't have any major beef with the work, but was curious as to the process and whether rules had been broken. Question is, what to do now? I know that a couple of the neighbours nearer the house in question (who happen to be friends of ours) are kicking-off big style. (Talking to the owner of the house is a great idea, but it has just been bought by a property speculator. Yes - he's clearly an idiot, before anyone says.)
Oli.
Thanks for your replies.
As far as the 'should I have been notified' question, it looks like that has been answered. We are not adjoining, and there have been notices tied to local trees. So that's that one done with.
Don't know where the idea of a conservatory comes from Mike400 - the work in question is to a bay window at the front of the house. Street is georgian terraces, with a bay window at ground floor level. The properties all have coal cellars.
The cellar has been converted to living space previously, and the application (and work done) has been to dig out the front of the house and extend the bay window down, into the dug-out space, creating a bay that is much higher (or, more accurately, which starts much lower down.)
I have looked on the council website, as they told me I could find details there, but it doesn't come up in any searches. (I suspect this is an admin error rather than anything else.)
I don't have any major beef with the work, but was curious as to the process and whether rules had been broken. Question is, what to do now? I know that a couple of the neighbours nearer the house in question (who happen to be friends of ours) are kicking-off big style. (Talking to the owner of the house is a great idea, but it has just been bought by a property speculator. Yes - he's clearly an idiot, before anyone says.)
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Chaps,
Thanks for your replies.
As far as the 'should I have been notified' question, it looks like that has been answered. We are not adjoining, and there have been notices tied to local trees. So that's that one done with.
Don't know where the idea of a conservatory comes from Mike400 - the work in question is to a bay window at the front of the house. Street is georgian terraces, with a bay window at ground floor level. The properties all have coal cellars.
The cellar has been converted to living space previously, and the application (and work done) has been to dig out the front of the house and extend the bay window down, into the dug-out space, creating a bay that is much higher (or, more accurately, which starts much lower down.)
I have looked on the council website, as they told me I could find details there, but it doesn't come up in any searches. (I suspect this is an admin error rather than anything else.)
I don't have any major beef with the work, but was curious as to the process and whether rules had been broken. Question is, what to do now? I know that a couple of the neighbours nearer the house in question (who happen to be friends of ours) are kicking-off big style. (Talking to the owner of the house is a great idea, but it has just been bought by a property speculator. Yes - he's clearly an idiot, before anyone says.)
Oli.
I may have confused Mike by using a conservatory as an example of something that wouldn't bother me if built onto a house 80 yds away from mine...why would a bigger window,especially on a ground floor,cause your friends to kick off? How does it affect them?Thanks for your replies.
As far as the 'should I have been notified' question, it looks like that has been answered. We are not adjoining, and there have been notices tied to local trees. So that's that one done with.
Don't know where the idea of a conservatory comes from Mike400 - the work in question is to a bay window at the front of the house. Street is georgian terraces, with a bay window at ground floor level. The properties all have coal cellars.
The cellar has been converted to living space previously, and the application (and work done) has been to dig out the front of the house and extend the bay window down, into the dug-out space, creating a bay that is much higher (or, more accurately, which starts much lower down.)
I have looked on the council website, as they told me I could find details there, but it doesn't come up in any searches. (I suspect this is an admin error rather than anything else.)
I don't have any major beef with the work, but was curious as to the process and whether rules had been broken. Question is, what to do now? I know that a couple of the neighbours nearer the house in question (who happen to be friends of ours) are kicking-off big style. (Talking to the owner of the house is a great idea, but it has just been bought by a property speculator. Yes - he's clearly an idiot, before anyone says.)
Oli.
esselte said:
I may have confused Mike by using a conservatory as an example of something that wouldn't bother me if built onto a house 80 yds away from mine...why would a bigger window,especially on a ground floor,cause your friends to kick off? How does it affect them?
Fair enough. Mike400 - I apologise, and blame him ^^^ !
The house frontages are very regular (with the exception of bomb damage at the end of the row), and the friends/neighbours in question are concerned that this changes one house in the middle of the row, so the regularity is lost. This is semi-true, although people have different types of garden wall in front of their houses, so it's not as clear-cut as they would like.
They are also concerned that this would set a precedent for people doing progressively more unusual things to the fronts of their houses, which is possibly a more valid point.
Oli.
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