Rossignol Scratch Skis
Discussion
Anyone used Rossignol Scratch Pro Twintips??
Was looking to buy a pair of new 07 Rossignol Bandit B3's for ~£200, but have come across some brand new Scratch Pro twintips for ~£150. Think the model may be a few years old though, because not in recent colours by the looks of it. (Both pairs with bindings). I rented the B3's last year and I couldn't fault them.
Will be 75% Piste, 25% off piste. Looking to grow the off piste. Can ski switch on normal skis, so rented some twintips for a day and nailed a few 180 jumps, landing switch - great fun. Only ski once a year so just need something cheap and competent - that said am now a mid-top intermediate and want a ski that will perform as I improve my technique.
Thoughts?
Was looking to buy a pair of new 07 Rossignol Bandit B3's for ~£200, but have come across some brand new Scratch Pro twintips for ~£150. Think the model may be a few years old though, because not in recent colours by the looks of it. (Both pairs with bindings). I rented the B3's last year and I couldn't fault them.
Will be 75% Piste, 25% off piste. Looking to grow the off piste. Can ski switch on normal skis, so rented some twintips for a day and nailed a few 180 jumps, landing switch - great fun. Only ski once a year so just need something cheap and competent - that said am now a mid-top intermediate and want a ski that will perform as I improve my technique.
Thoughts?
now then...
depends on the year and the model. There are all sorts of Rossi scratches out there, some are good and some not so. Also depends on what kind of skier you are and what you want from your skis.
Without seeing the skis in question would be difficult to know. The main thing you need to be aware is that for some year models there was two kinds, of scratch, a big burly back-country twin tip and a thinner freestyle park ski. Depending on the year these were called at various times the BC, FS, BC sprayer, pro, just 'scracth' etc etc.
I think from what your saying is that you would be happy on the BC type freeride (all mountain) ski but maybe not the FS park ski. They are very different and i have to nail my colours to the mast here and say that for me its all about charging about the mountain over all terrain and not hanging with the kids in the park. If however you want to spend your days in the park then the bigger scratch models will be too heavy to huck about easily.
Trust me, i tele ski on a set of 2005 scratch BCs and they are big old beasts that dont like quick turns. Off piste, powder, crud at speed - they are AWESOME.
For the price, it sounds good. If money was no object, the game has moved on and Volkl and K2 backcountry skis are now streets ahead. I have both Volkl Karma's and Mantra's for touring on and they are in a different league to any Rossi offpiste ski.
Whats more important is that you get the right size. If your confident you can take them quite long. I'm only 177cm tall and my scratches are 176cm!
What is crucial is the mounting position. Dont follow fashion and get them centre mounted you will regret it if you want to actually enjoy skiing the mountain and not just spin in the air.
hope this helps
Moon (ski geek)
PS i think the B3 is the most over-rated ski out there but thats a whole another kettle of fish altogether
depends on the year and the model. There are all sorts of Rossi scratches out there, some are good and some not so. Also depends on what kind of skier you are and what you want from your skis.
Without seeing the skis in question would be difficult to know. The main thing you need to be aware is that for some year models there was two kinds, of scratch, a big burly back-country twin tip and a thinner freestyle park ski. Depending on the year these were called at various times the BC, FS, BC sprayer, pro, just 'scracth' etc etc.
I think from what your saying is that you would be happy on the BC type freeride (all mountain) ski but maybe not the FS park ski. They are very different and i have to nail my colours to the mast here and say that for me its all about charging about the mountain over all terrain and not hanging with the kids in the park. If however you want to spend your days in the park then the bigger scratch models will be too heavy to huck about easily.
Trust me, i tele ski on a set of 2005 scratch BCs and they are big old beasts that dont like quick turns. Off piste, powder, crud at speed - they are AWESOME.
For the price, it sounds good. If money was no object, the game has moved on and Volkl and K2 backcountry skis are now streets ahead. I have both Volkl Karma's and Mantra's for touring on and they are in a different league to any Rossi offpiste ski.
Whats more important is that you get the right size. If your confident you can take them quite long. I'm only 177cm tall and my scratches are 176cm!
What is crucial is the mounting position. Dont follow fashion and get them centre mounted you will regret it if you want to actually enjoy skiing the mountain and not just spin in the air.
hope this helps
Moon (ski geek)
PS i think the B3 is the most over-rated ski out there but thats a whole another kettle of fish altogether
My son has new (last year) Rossi scratch BC's and he is well impressed with them but he loves back country ,off piste type stuff. They are a heavy cumbersome ski and i would say need a fairly competent skier to get the best from them. On a hard packed piste not good at all but then the piste is only there to get to the next drop off..
I use Rossi B3's and wouldnt agree with previous posters coment (overrated). Not so extreme as the Scratch BC's and more edge grip on the piste but still a great off piste ski, lighter and more managable. I love off piste but to be practical and esp when i'm with the family a fair amount of hard snow cant be avoided. The B3 is more suited.
Tried some K2 outback skis which had superb edge on hard snow, much more than the Rossis but less width for skiing thro crud etc. If you are looking for one set to do all i would say Scratch BC's for 90% off piste, B3's say 70% and a K2 outback 50/50. Not up on 08 models tho so may be better out there. Buy in resort and try a few out before you buy.
If you are looking for a free style fun park ski buy an old set of Salomon 1080's. Light mid mounted twin tips, flexible and not bad on and off piste. Good to use and abuse.
I use Rossi B3's and wouldnt agree with previous posters coment (overrated). Not so extreme as the Scratch BC's and more edge grip on the piste but still a great off piste ski, lighter and more managable. I love off piste but to be practical and esp when i'm with the family a fair amount of hard snow cant be avoided. The B3 is more suited.
Tried some K2 outback skis which had superb edge on hard snow, much more than the Rossis but less width for skiing thro crud etc. If you are looking for one set to do all i would say Scratch BC's for 90% off piste, B3's say 70% and a K2 outback 50/50. Not up on 08 models tho so may be better out there. Buy in resort and try a few out before you buy.
If you are looking for a free style fun park ski buy an old set of Salomon 1080's. Light mid mounted twin tips, flexible and not bad on and off piste. Good to use and abuse.
Edited by R TOY on Saturday 13th September 11:34
I've skiied in 2005/6/7 scratches, and they are fun twintips, very light and fun for tricks, park and a bit of light off piste.
If you're doing 75% on piste then I wouldn't bother, yes they look cool, but they are so light and flexy they aren't really a good piste ski. Much better off with a decent set of carvers and just hire a set of scratches for the days you're in the park / off piste / planning lots of tricks.
If you're doing 75% on piste then I wouldn't bother, yes they look cool, but they are so light and flexy they aren't really a good piste ski. Much better off with a decent set of carvers and just hire a set of scratches for the days you're in the park / off piste / planning lots of tricks.
R TOY said:
Boymoon, Just read your profile and website 
Impresive, hope to be in touch.
Dave.
Impresive, hope to be in touch.
Dave.
no need! I am just another boy who loves his planks thats all. Former glories now, I was in Chamonix for 4 years and also have done a season in La Clusaz and downunder in Perisher. I left the company last month and moved to Brissle (sometimes wonder why). Over there I started off as driver and host and ended up as the sales manager! Great company, highly highly recommended. Gratutious ski shot:-
Thats me at the front on my mantra's. Favourite ski ever!
The earlier comments re the B3 came across a bit harsh. I just get annoyed when i ski on them because its very much a jack of all and master of none. Personally i think that to make them more accessible they're softer in-front of the foot which i think makes turn-in a bit vague and not that satisfying.
Back in the day i had some 1080s. Brilliant ski when new although after a lot use they did turn into limp spaghetti! I've got a pic of me doing a drop off on them somewhere, will dig it later
cheers
Moonie
Edited by theboymoon on Saturday 13th September 12:16
Glade said:
Anyone used Rossignol Scratch Pro Twintips??
Was looking to buy a pair of new 07 Rossignol Bandit B3's for ~£200, but have come across some brand new Scratch Pro twintips for ~£150. Think the model may be a few years old though, because not in recent colours by the looks of it. (Both pairs with bindings). I rented the B3's last year and I couldn't fault them.
Will be 75% Piste, 25% off piste. Looking to grow the off piste. Can ski switch on normal skis, so rented some twintips for a day and nailed a few 180 jumps, landing switch - great fun. Only ski once a year so just need something cheap and competent - that said am now a mid-top intermediate and want a ski that will perform as I improve my technique.
Thoughts?
Firstly listen to theboymoon he talks a lot of sense! Was looking to buy a pair of new 07 Rossignol Bandit B3's for ~£200, but have come across some brand new Scratch Pro twintips for ~£150. Think the model may be a few years old though, because not in recent colours by the looks of it. (Both pairs with bindings). I rented the B3's last year and I couldn't fault them.
Will be 75% Piste, 25% off piste. Looking to grow the off piste. Can ski switch on normal skis, so rented some twintips for a day and nailed a few 180 jumps, landing switch - great fun. Only ski once a year so just need something cheap and competent - that said am now a mid-top intermediate and want a ski that will perform as I improve my technique.
Thoughts?
Choosing skis is difficult without having a go on them. It is hard to buy a bad pair of skis now but very easy to buy the wrong ones for the type of skiing you are doing. Where are you skiing this year? I might be able to reccomend some good ski shops that will give you some good advice and get you out on some pairs to see what suits your skiing.
There are a lot of variables that need to be taken into consideration - hight, weight skiing ability, skiing style (agressive, strong, soft etc etc) what you have skiied on before and enjoyed, what type of skiing you will be doing and lastly what type of ski you go for. You then have to look at the right lengh to get the best out of the skis.
I used to work in a well known ski shop in France a few seasons ago, we didn't stock Rossi bandits but had lots of people asking for them. Again I agree with theboymoon - IMHO they are a very overrated ski well marketed and flooded onto the rental market. Once you could establish if the skiier would be better on a more piste oriented ski or again IMHO a much better all mountain ski we could send them out for a couple of hours on something much more suitable. Just by speaking to someone I could usually narrow it down to 3 or 4 pairs that I could put money on the skiier prefering to the bandits. the majority of the time it was either something from the K2 Apache range (crossfire, recon or occasionally an outlaw) or if it was a more piesty ski then something like a Head XRC 1100 or 1200. Occasionally a movement spark carbon if they wanted something much more aggressive or a Head Monster 80 or 88.
I used to spend my days talking people out of buying twin tips just for the looks as again they are generally park or backcountry specific (barring a few) However If you are set on a pair of twin tips then firstly - make sure you ski them longer rather than shorter. Because of the rear tip the effective edge (the edge in contact with the snow) of the ski is much shorter than you think. For example I have a pair of 182 Scott Punishers (one of my fave skis from last season) and I am only 5'8. Secondly don't go for something too massive underfoot. My punishers are 89mm underfoot and to be honest thats pushing it for an all round ski (I am just lazy and don't bother turning much!). A lot of the twin tips are really soft - esp in the tips and tails to allow you to fluff up a few landings and to give you a bit of extra pop in the park. This allows you to initiate a turn on the piste quite easily but they are mega flappy at speed and unstable even with the lengh and width of a park ski. The two mainstream exeptions to this have been the K2 Public Enemy and the Volkl Karma. Much more of a good all mountain ski that happens to be a twin tip.
I will shut up now as I could go on and on - if you want any more specific info let me know though as I will happily talk about skis and skiing for hours!
Good luck on your choice
Andy
Wow so much information... right where to start.
Type of skiing:
Have done a fair bit of Langlauf 10 years ago (thin then!) - irrelavant.
Recently have been skiing for 5 years straight, one week a year with some training in the UK.
3 years ago ventured off piste and learned sinking and the face plant.
2 years ago hired some twintips and had a ball on small jumps and did a bit more off piste in fresh powder, did ok perfected the face plant.
Last year spent more time off piste, but on snow with a crust.
Will be mainly used on piste, but want to develop off piste skills.
179cm tall, ~102kg (-gear), bit porky but strong legs, will work on upper body before heading out.
not aggressive skiier but like going fast & smooth. Can cope with ice lumps & afternoon slush, avoid moguhls, not fazed by steep pistes can control speed.
Not bothered about looks, only considered twintips because they looked like a good price. Happy with a set of carving skis that don't stop me experimenting off piste. Logic with twintips is that if they can do anything might be fun to try a few tricks.
How about some alternatives for the B3's - i hired them and TBH they were better than me.
Perhaps most important is for it to be 'last year's model' so i can get a bargain.
Type of skiing:
Have done a fair bit of Langlauf 10 years ago (thin then!) - irrelavant.
Recently have been skiing for 5 years straight, one week a year with some training in the UK.
3 years ago ventured off piste and learned sinking and the face plant.
2 years ago hired some twintips and had a ball on small jumps and did a bit more off piste in fresh powder, did ok perfected the face plant.
Last year spent more time off piste, but on snow with a crust.
Will be mainly used on piste, but want to develop off piste skills.
179cm tall, ~102kg (-gear), bit porky but strong legs, will work on upper body before heading out.
not aggressive skiier but like going fast & smooth. Can cope with ice lumps & afternoon slush, avoid moguhls, not fazed by steep pistes can control speed.
Not bothered about looks, only considered twintips because they looked like a good price. Happy with a set of carving skis that don't stop me experimenting off piste. Logic with twintips is that if they can do anything might be fun to try a few tricks.
How about some alternatives for the B3's - i hired them and TBH they were better than me.
Perhaps most important is for it to be 'last year's model' so i can get a bargain.
Glade said:
Wow so much information... right where to start.
Type of skiing:
Have done a fair bit of Langlauf 10 years ago (thin then!) - irrelavant.
Recently have been skiing for 5 years straight, one week a year with some training in the UK.
3 years ago ventured off piste and learned sinking and the face plant.
2 years ago hired some twintips and had a ball on small jumps and did a bit more off piste in fresh powder, did ok perfected the face plant.
Last year spent more time off piste, but on snow with a crust.
Will be mainly used on piste, but want to develop off piste skills.
179cm tall, ~102kg (-gear), bit porky but strong legs, will work on upper body before heading out.
not aggressive skiier but like going fast & smooth. Can cope with ice lumps & afternoon slush, avoid moguhls, not fazed by steep pistes can control speed.
Not bothered about looks, only considered twintips because they looked like a good price. Happy with a set of carving skis that don't stop me experimenting off piste. Logic with twintips is that if they can do anything might be fun to try a few tricks.
How about some alternatives for the B3's - i hired them and TBH they were better than me.
Perhaps most important is for it to be 'last year's model' so i can get a bargain.
Type of skiing:
Have done a fair bit of Langlauf 10 years ago (thin then!) - irrelavant.
Recently have been skiing for 5 years straight, one week a year with some training in the UK.
3 years ago ventured off piste and learned sinking and the face plant.
2 years ago hired some twintips and had a ball on small jumps and did a bit more off piste in fresh powder, did ok perfected the face plant.
Last year spent more time off piste, but on snow with a crust.
Will be mainly used on piste, but want to develop off piste skills.
179cm tall, ~102kg (-gear), bit porky but strong legs, will work on upper body before heading out.
not aggressive skiier but like going fast & smooth. Can cope with ice lumps & afternoon slush, avoid moguhls, not fazed by steep pistes can control speed.
Not bothered about looks, only considered twintips because they looked like a good price. Happy with a set of carving skis that don't stop me experimenting off piste. Logic with twintips is that if they can do anything might be fun to try a few tricks.
How about some alternatives for the B3's - i hired them and TBH they were better than me.
Perhaps most important is for it to be 'last year's model' so i can get a bargain.
I like the progression as described above! If it cheers you up, several years into my offpiste career i still face plant with the best on them on an alarmingly regular basis! Its all part of that learning curve and the never ending search for that elusive 'perfect turn!'Fot me offpiste skiing is what its all about. choosing a line down the mountain, using the features to your advantage and watching your friends make their own choices left and right of you is my idea of heaven!
For what its worth IMHO with what your saying above you would be more suited to a freeride (all mountain) than a freestyle (park) ski. So i can only repeat what i said above. For the money its a really good deal IF it is the right model of scratch and IF it is the right size. You really need to ask the guys selling if it is a scratch freeride/backcountry ski or a scrath freestyle/park ski. By memory last years scratch was a backcountry ski called the 'brigade pro.' Now, ive not skied it but i know people who have and they said it was OK. Not the best ever, but not a bad ski at all.
Size wise, well as you are similar height to the likes of myself but due to more body mass (i say this in the nicest possible way) compared to skinny lads like me who weigh in at 70kg i'd recommend not shying away from a slightly brave choice length-wise. If you have the weight to drive a ski more easily and your technique is improving you are going to get more out of a longer, more burly ski (say 176 scratch, K2 181) than a shorter ski as you get better. Nothing worse than out driving a short ski especially at speed.
A caveat. I've never sold skis to other people, i only know for sure what works for me so maybe someone like Andy needs to step in with a more definitive answer....
Its true what has been said above that for an all round ski you really dont want to go wider underfoot than 90mm. My karmas 177cm are by memory something like 88mm underfoot (cant remember, happy to be corrected). They float in powder, they carve on piste and because they are that bit stiffer than most direct competitors will hold an edge really well all the way up to warp factor 8.9! Only at silly speeds do they start to flap. But thats not what they are all about you know. Skis are like top trump cards, all have advantages and disadvantages and can't be perfect at everything. but like top trumps some are better than others and even on a weakness are still pretty damm good. Does that make sense?
So if you are prepared to shell out a few more beans i would look at last years K2 or Volkl range. You are right, this years skis are by and large just new graphics. Improvements these days tend to be very incremental with only the odd breakthrough in terms of technology from time to time. As my uncle says (who owned a ski shop in aviemore), "only a fool pays for graphics!" Actually, his version was less swear filter friendly. The Karma was rebranded as the "bridge" for 07-08, was slightly wider and was ironically marketed as a park ski. Ignore the marketing, mount the bindings in the classic position and you have got an awesome all mountain weapon. If you cant find a set of these cheap, BUY THEM. (PS the comments re the Public Enemy are spot on too - was a great ski!)
I love my big MAHOOSIVE Volkl Mantras because they are a challenge. Wouldn't dream of skiing them everyday or when its hardpacked and piste only skiing. But at pace while offpiste they are soooooooooooooo ridiculously stable that you can take liberties with them. I've rolled off seracs and landed over-rotated, on one ski with my hands and arms all over the place and managed to pull it back together and ski off into the distance at mach 10. Lovely stuff.
oh dear. excuse my soapboxing
Edited by theboymoon on Saturday 13th September 23:24
Thanks moonie, Just trying to digest all that information.
Quick google came up with this... might go get a demo ride at a snowdome.
http://www.ellis-brigham.com/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi...
Quick google came up with this... might go get a demo ride at a snowdome.
http://www.ellis-brigham.com/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi...
Glade said:
Thanks moonie, Just trying to digest all that information.
Quick google came up with this... might go get a demo ride at a snowdome.
http://www.ellis-brigham.com/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi... 0%7Cuser%7C1,0,0,1%7C2%7C
No worries Quick google came up with this... might go get a demo ride at a snowdome.
http://www.ellis-brigham.com/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi... 0%7Cuser%7C1,0,0,1%7C2%7C
Thats the one. £295 with bindings is not bad at all. For reference, i know that the price from Volkl direct to the trade for these (ski only) was £190.00 this time last year. So, throw in the bindings, the cost of getting them mounted and only tiny bit of margin for Ellis Brigham and you're doing well at £295.00.
If you can arrange a demo all to the better.
It seems they only have that ski left in a 185 and at 92 underfoot they may be too much of a comprimise on piste. There is only so much avoiding of ice and moguls you can do. They would be reasonably stable at speed because of the width underfoot and length plus they are a wood core and sandwitch construction. however they need a lot more of an angle to get an edge on ice and the transition time from edge to edge will be a lot more sluggish.
from the ellis brigham site you could do a lot worse than these
http://www.ellis-brigham.com/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi... in a 175
otherwise you can get the volkl walls ski only from Telemark Pyrenees for about €250 the rossignol bindings on EB are made by Look and you can get them on the same site for €120 working out at a similar price to the bridges on EB.
http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/shop/product_info...
I have been avoiding looking at skis recently due to the fact that I enjoy buying ski kit far too much! But I will have a proper look tomorrow if I get the chance. From what you have said I really think you would enjoy a K2 Apache Recon or even an Outlaw if you want something wider. The only problem with those is that I don't rate the marker binding that comes with the package ski as much as some of the other bindings you can get. Also keep a lookout for a monster M82. Really do your best to ski before you buy though as its the only way to really tell.
from the ellis brigham site you could do a lot worse than these
http://www.ellis-brigham.com/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi... in a 175
otherwise you can get the volkl walls ski only from Telemark Pyrenees for about €250 the rossignol bindings on EB are made by Look and you can get them on the same site for €120 working out at a similar price to the bridges on EB.
http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/shop/product_info...
I have been avoiding looking at skis recently due to the fact that I enjoy buying ski kit far too much! But I will have a proper look tomorrow if I get the chance. From what you have said I really think you would enjoy a K2 Apache Recon or even an Outlaw if you want something wider. The only problem with those is that I don't rate the marker binding that comes with the package ski as much as some of the other bindings you can get. Also keep a lookout for a monster M82. Really do your best to ski before you buy though as its the only way to really tell.
Really it looks like piste ski with a bit of off piste capability would be good.
I'm not interested in the park stuff, but a few 180's over lumps would be kinda cool!!! which is why an all mountain twin grabs me - it seems that pure freestyle are too flexible for the piste, but these 'all mountain' or 'freeski' are heavier and stiffer and can carve pretty well, have a big enough surface area to head off-piste.
Just have to get one that isn't too wide to slow down turns on piste. The right sort of lengths seems to be about 175 for me - esp given that twin tips have shorter effective length.
I think I'm happy now that I know what I want in a ski - just have to keep looking for deals.
Cheers guys.
I'm not interested in the park stuff, but a few 180's over lumps would be kinda cool!!! which is why an all mountain twin grabs me - it seems that pure freestyle are too flexible for the piste, but these 'all mountain' or 'freeski' are heavier and stiffer and can carve pretty well, have a big enough surface area to head off-piste.
Just have to get one that isn't too wide to slow down turns on piste. The right sort of lengths seems to be about 175 for me - esp given that twin tips have shorter effective length.
I think I'm happy now that I know what I want in a ski - just have to keep looking for deals.
Cheers guys.
Well thanks for the advice guys...
Went for a pair of 06/07 Rossignol Bandit B3 for £210 delivered in the end. May be slightly more off-piste biased than is ideal, but i'm sure they'll keep me entertained. I realise that what I rented last year was the Rossi B83 which was the 07/08 iteration of the ski's i've bought. I couldn't fault those so this seemed like a safe bet.
The company I bought from were very helpful and skis arrived the next day.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Happy to have my own skis!
Went for a pair of 06/07 Rossignol Bandit B3 for £210 delivered in the end. May be slightly more off-piste biased than is ideal, but i'm sure they'll keep me entertained. I realise that what I rented last year was the Rossi B83 which was the 07/08 iteration of the ski's i've bought. I couldn't fault those so this seemed like a safe bet.
The company I bought from were very helpful and skis arrived the next day.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Happy to have my own skis!
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