Quick chassis build price question
Discussion
Not wanting to waste the time of the likes ARC currently, as this is just idle speculation.
Anyone got an idea what a small dragster chassis would cost to get built? The engine would be a Hayabusa bike lump, poss with turbo.
It would need to take a 6'4 driver , so a junior is out of the question.
Anyone got an idea what a small dragster chassis would cost to get built? The engine would be a Hayabusa bike lump, poss with turbo.
It would need to take a 6'4 driver , so a junior is out of the question.
There are a few chassis companies in America that do an unwelded kit that I can import. The cost starts adding up with steering parts and so on.I think the idea is really cool, look how quick kit cars with that type of engine are over the 1/4 mile with normal treads.
Email me some details down and I can price it up for you.
Email me some details down and I can price it up for you. Edited by Lee@LA on Sunday 14th September 09:30
Furyous said:
Hi Lee
I really need a roller, as Im no welder.
I always liked the old Kwak powered dragster from a few years ago, and am looking at the costs of building a modern version.
If I wasnt quite so big, I would be well tempted by the busa Funny car that Adam was/is working on.
The name you are looking for is 'Exile'. Do a search on UKDRN, there are several threads on the car there.I really need a roller, as Im no welder.
I always liked the old Kwak powered dragster from a few years ago, and am looking at the costs of building a modern version.
If I wasnt quite so big, I would be well tempted by the busa Funny car that Adam was/is working on.
the ideas not a new one, others have done it and it was something I looked into a while ago. I actually had Andy quote on building me one. It was way out of my price range at the time.
To budget for a chassis, I reckon your looking at £1500 in materials. You'll want it in chrome moly given that power to weight ratio is going to be more important when your lacking the torque of a V8. Building a steel CDS chassis will be pointless, spend the extra for moly. It's about 3-4 times the price but half the weight . The weight saving you build into the car will be beneficial.
Anyone building a chassis with any savvy and skill will be charging a minimum of £90ph labour. Factor in about £2500-3000 labour minimum for a finished jig TIG welded chassis to SFI spec 7.50. On top of this there are expenses such as spindles, bearings, wheels, steering box / rack, butterfly wheel, drag links, rod ends, dzus fastners, panel, under trays, pedals, seating, belts etc etc just to get it rolling.
In terms of wheelbase I'd be looking at 180in or so. A collapsable chassis would make transporting and storing it easier, Design it with nothign forward of the drivers feet and it'll work. Have the rad and fuel tank behind you.
In terms of what to use in the drivetrain, you have options;
Gearboxes are available for many bike engines which allow the use of reversers. With a small prop and custom UJ's, a traditional narrowed axle could be used. You'll be looking for a lightweight full or 3/4 floating axle. A little sherpa rear end would be a good bet. Alternativley an IRS set up would work. Sierra based with LSD would work well. Slicks would be no more than 10.5 x maybe 28-29in tall, any wider and you'd bog the car down off the line, your missing torque don't forget.
A chain driven car would need a sprocket driven solid axle, similar to a kart set up, but scratchbuilt to withstand the power mounted in plumbers blocks with heavy duty bearings. A swingarm or 4 bar set up would be advantagous in terms of launching the car on all surfaces and stability in the shutdown. Bear in mind with this set-up you won't have reverse which is needed for all 4 wheel vehicles in MSA competition. Reverse is needed, rolling burnouts, positioning the car in the groove, driving in the pits etc.
The big plus with the bike engines is the cooling, air cooled is a big benefit, water cooled is OK and much more managable than a V8, either way you should be able to drive to the line and back from the top end. The other big benfit is sequential shifting. Hook up either a solonoid or air shifter with a stutter box and you get full power, clutchless shifting on RPM. Do you realise how competaive that would be in bracket racing ! You'd also need a smaller fuel tank, the less fuel you carry, the better.
If you can get this together you will have the basis for a self sufficient and deadly competative, dragster which could hook up on gravel and run mid 10's with a beefed up stock "big" motor. A turbo, or timed progressive nitrous injection and you could potentially have an low 9 second car. My preferance would be to run a stock big motor, GSXR or Blackbird run it in the 10's and bracket race it.
In terms of safety gear, assuming no rule changes and no use of nitrous, you could get away with an FIA approved suit instead of an SFI-15. Price difference is about £400, althopugh this may change. You'll need to specifically check the use of bike engines in MSA competition, otherwise it's just an expensive toy, you'll wanna race and beat somebody with it one day in proper competition.
To budget for a chassis, I reckon your looking at £1500 in materials. You'll want it in chrome moly given that power to weight ratio is going to be more important when your lacking the torque of a V8. Building a steel CDS chassis will be pointless, spend the extra for moly. It's about 3-4 times the price but half the weight . The weight saving you build into the car will be beneficial.
Anyone building a chassis with any savvy and skill will be charging a minimum of £90ph labour. Factor in about £2500-3000 labour minimum for a finished jig TIG welded chassis to SFI spec 7.50. On top of this there are expenses such as spindles, bearings, wheels, steering box / rack, butterfly wheel, drag links, rod ends, dzus fastners, panel, under trays, pedals, seating, belts etc etc just to get it rolling.
In terms of wheelbase I'd be looking at 180in or so. A collapsable chassis would make transporting and storing it easier, Design it with nothign forward of the drivers feet and it'll work. Have the rad and fuel tank behind you.
In terms of what to use in the drivetrain, you have options;
Gearboxes are available for many bike engines which allow the use of reversers. With a small prop and custom UJ's, a traditional narrowed axle could be used. You'll be looking for a lightweight full or 3/4 floating axle. A little sherpa rear end would be a good bet. Alternativley an IRS set up would work. Sierra based with LSD would work well. Slicks would be no more than 10.5 x maybe 28-29in tall, any wider and you'd bog the car down off the line, your missing torque don't forget.
A chain driven car would need a sprocket driven solid axle, similar to a kart set up, but scratchbuilt to withstand the power mounted in plumbers blocks with heavy duty bearings. A swingarm or 4 bar set up would be advantagous in terms of launching the car on all surfaces and stability in the shutdown. Bear in mind with this set-up you won't have reverse which is needed for all 4 wheel vehicles in MSA competition. Reverse is needed, rolling burnouts, positioning the car in the groove, driving in the pits etc.
The big plus with the bike engines is the cooling, air cooled is a big benefit, water cooled is OK and much more managable than a V8, either way you should be able to drive to the line and back from the top end. The other big benfit is sequential shifting. Hook up either a solonoid or air shifter with a stutter box and you get full power, clutchless shifting on RPM. Do you realise how competaive that would be in bracket racing ! You'd also need a smaller fuel tank, the less fuel you carry, the better.
If you can get this together you will have the basis for a self sufficient and deadly competative, dragster which could hook up on gravel and run mid 10's with a beefed up stock "big" motor. A turbo, or timed progressive nitrous injection and you could potentially have an low 9 second car. My preferance would be to run a stock big motor, GSXR or Blackbird run it in the 10's and bracket race it.
In terms of safety gear, assuming no rule changes and no use of nitrous, you could get away with an FIA approved suit instead of an SFI-15. Price difference is about £400, althopugh this may change. You'll need to specifically check the use of bike engines in MSA competition, otherwise it's just an expensive toy, you'll wanna race and beat somebody with it one day in proper competition.
Jon C said:
Furyous said:
Hi Lee
I really need a roller, as Im no welder.
I always liked the old Kwak powered dragster from a few years ago, and am looking at the costs of building a modern version.
If I wasnt quite so big, I would be well tempted by the busa Funny car that Adam was/is working on.
The name you are looking for is 'Exile'. Do a search on UKDRN, there are several threads on the car there.I really need a roller, as Im no welder.
I always liked the old Kwak powered dragster from a few years ago, and am looking at the costs of building a modern version.
If I wasnt quite so big, I would be well tempted by the busa Funny car that Adam was/is working on.
http://www.ukdrn.co.uk/forum/search.php?keywords=e...
Furyous said:
Jon C said:
Furyous said:
Hi Lee
I really need a roller, as Im no welder.
I always liked the old Kwak powered dragster from a few years ago, and am looking at the costs of building a modern version.
If I wasnt quite so big, I would be well tempted by the busa Funny car that Adam was/is working on.
The name you are looking for is 'Exile'. Do a search on UKDRN, there are several threads on the car there.I really need a roller, as Im no welder.
I always liked the old Kwak powered dragster from a few years ago, and am looking at the costs of building a modern version.
If I wasnt quite so big, I would be well tempted by the busa Funny car that Adam was/is working on.
http://www.ukdrn.co.uk/forum/search.php?keywords=e...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
on here, including some posts by the man himself (Mr Exile)
for a start, will search UKDRN in a bit...
PhilSweeney said:
the ideas not a new one, others have done it and it was something I looked into a while ago. I actually had Andy quote on building me one. It was way out of my price range at the time.
To budget for a chassis, I reckon your looking at £1500 in materials. You'll want it in chrome moly given that power to weight ratio is going to be more important when your lacking the torque of a V8. Building a steel CDS chassis will be pointless, spend the extra for moly. It's about 3-4 times the price but half the weight . The weight saving you build into the car will be beneficial.
Anyone building a chassis with any savvy and skill will be charging a minimum of £90ph labour. Factor in about £2500-3000 labour minimum for a finished jig TIG welded chassis to SFI spec 7.50. On top of this there are expenses such as spindles, bearings, wheels, steering box / rack, butterfly wheel, drag links, rod ends, dzus fastners, panel, under trays, pedals, seating, belts etc etc just to get it rolling.
In terms of wheelbase I'd be looking at 180in or so. A collapsable chassis would make transporting and storing it easier, Design it with nothign forward of the drivers feet and it'll work. Have the rad and fuel tank behind you.
In terms of what to use in the drivetrain, you have options;
Gearboxes are available for many bike engines which allow the use of reversers. With a small prop and custom UJ's, a traditional narrowed axle could be used. You'll be looking for a lightweight full or 3/4 floating axle. A little sherpa rear end would be a good bet. Alternativley an IRS set up would work. Sierra based with LSD would work well. Slicks would be no more than 10.5 x maybe 28-29in tall, any wider and you'd bog the car down off the line, your missing torque don't forget.
A chain driven car would need a sprocket driven solid axle, similar to a kart set up, but scratchbuilt to withstand the power mounted in plumbers blocks with heavy duty bearings. A swingarm or 4 bar set up would be advantagous in terms of launching the car on all surfaces and stability in the shutdown. Bear in mind with this set-up you won't have reverse which is needed for all 4 wheel vehicles in MSA competition. Reverse is needed, rolling burnouts, positioning the car in the groove, driving in the pits etc.
The big plus with the bike engines is the cooling, air cooled is a big benefit, water cooled is OK and much more managable than a V8, either way you should be able to drive to the line and back from the top end. The other big benfit is sequential shifting. Hook up either a solonoid or air shifter with a stutter box and you get full power, clutchless shifting on RPM. Do you realise how competaive that would be in bracket racing ! You'd also need a smaller fuel tank, the less fuel you carry, the better.
If you can get this together you will have the basis for a self sufficient and deadly competative, dragster which could hook up on gravel and run mid 10's with a beefed up stock "big" motor. A turbo, or timed progressive nitrous injection and you could potentially have an low 9 second car. My preferance would be to run a stock big motor, GSXR or Blackbird run it in the 10's and bracket race it.
In terms of safety gear, assuming no rule changes and no use of nitrous, you could get away with an FIA approved suit instead of an SFI-15. Price difference is about £400, althopugh this may change. You'll need to specifically check the use of bike engines in MSA competition, otherwise it's just an expensive toy, you'll wanna race and beat somebody with it one day in proper competition.
re the anyone with any savvy charging £90 ph i think youd be surprised ARRC is about half that my pro mod chassis was about £6000 for state of the art chrome molly tagged to 6.00 with about a million miles of tube in it.....dont concider it a waste of time ask a pro.....they realy wont mind...you may just be plesantly surprisedTo budget for a chassis, I reckon your looking at £1500 in materials. You'll want it in chrome moly given that power to weight ratio is going to be more important when your lacking the torque of a V8. Building a steel CDS chassis will be pointless, spend the extra for moly. It's about 3-4 times the price but half the weight . The weight saving you build into the car will be beneficial.
Anyone building a chassis with any savvy and skill will be charging a minimum of £90ph labour. Factor in about £2500-3000 labour minimum for a finished jig TIG welded chassis to SFI spec 7.50. On top of this there are expenses such as spindles, bearings, wheels, steering box / rack, butterfly wheel, drag links, rod ends, dzus fastners, panel, under trays, pedals, seating, belts etc etc just to get it rolling.
In terms of wheelbase I'd be looking at 180in or so. A collapsable chassis would make transporting and storing it easier, Design it with nothign forward of the drivers feet and it'll work. Have the rad and fuel tank behind you.
In terms of what to use in the drivetrain, you have options;
Gearboxes are available for many bike engines which allow the use of reversers. With a small prop and custom UJ's, a traditional narrowed axle could be used. You'll be looking for a lightweight full or 3/4 floating axle. A little sherpa rear end would be a good bet. Alternativley an IRS set up would work. Sierra based with LSD would work well. Slicks would be no more than 10.5 x maybe 28-29in tall, any wider and you'd bog the car down off the line, your missing torque don't forget.
A chain driven car would need a sprocket driven solid axle, similar to a kart set up, but scratchbuilt to withstand the power mounted in plumbers blocks with heavy duty bearings. A swingarm or 4 bar set up would be advantagous in terms of launching the car on all surfaces and stability in the shutdown. Bear in mind with this set-up you won't have reverse which is needed for all 4 wheel vehicles in MSA competition. Reverse is needed, rolling burnouts, positioning the car in the groove, driving in the pits etc.
The big plus with the bike engines is the cooling, air cooled is a big benefit, water cooled is OK and much more managable than a V8, either way you should be able to drive to the line and back from the top end. The other big benfit is sequential shifting. Hook up either a solonoid or air shifter with a stutter box and you get full power, clutchless shifting on RPM. Do you realise how competaive that would be in bracket racing ! You'd also need a smaller fuel tank, the less fuel you carry, the better.
If you can get this together you will have the basis for a self sufficient and deadly competative, dragster which could hook up on gravel and run mid 10's with a beefed up stock "big" motor. A turbo, or timed progressive nitrous injection and you could potentially have an low 9 second car. My preferance would be to run a stock big motor, GSXR or Blackbird run it in the 10's and bracket race it.
In terms of safety gear, assuming no rule changes and no use of nitrous, you could get away with an FIA approved suit instead of an SFI-15. Price difference is about £400, althopugh this may change. You'll need to specifically check the use of bike engines in MSA competition, otherwise it's just an expensive toy, you'll wanna race and beat somebody with it one day in proper competition.
Edited by badbird on Tuesday 30th September 19:23
Think it would be a great idea to see a bike engine car running again. Only problem you'll have is the establishment won't like it when you make them look silly and will want you outlawed.
ARC is probably your best place to go as Dave Wilson does a bit of work there and he knew my old car 'Exile' very well, as he spent a few night in both mine and his garage working on it!
If you need any advice on this type of car please contact me. I still got some bits somewhere.
We used to run 8's with a very mild Elmer Trett spec bracket motor with a mild dose of nitrous and that was twenty years ago.
Easy sevens with turbo.
Forget the car style rear axle, use an electric motor for reverse it will be much lighter.
ARC is probably your best place to go as Dave Wilson does a bit of work there and he knew my old car 'Exile' very well, as he spent a few night in both mine and his garage working on it!
If you need any advice on this type of car please contact me. I still got some bits somewhere.
We used to run 8's with a very mild Elmer Trett spec bracket motor with a mild dose of nitrous and that was twenty years ago.
Easy sevens with turbo.
Forget the car style rear axle, use an electric motor for reverse it will be much lighter.
Blimey, this thread has seen some action.
Cheers for all the input, in particular Mr Exile, I remember thinking in your day, it was such a brilliantly simple idea to use a bike motor.
Having now built and run my own Bike engined car (Fisher Fury) I can see no reason for it not to work again.
Currently my biggest negative to building a BEC dragster is how narrow minded the car will be and how little (relatively) use it would get.
Half of me is now toying with buying a Busa powered kit car, as I could use that on track days as well as a bit of road action.
But then I also look in E/D bikes for sale section and see some really fast silly cheap deals going......
One of my goals for the next couple of years is to go 200mph, and given my miniscule budget, bikes look the way forward for that particular goal at least.
Im not in the position to do move on it yet, and with the way the economy currently looks, unlikely next year too, but its certainly food for thought.
Cheers for all the input, in particular Mr Exile, I remember thinking in your day, it was such a brilliantly simple idea to use a bike motor.
Having now built and run my own Bike engined car (Fisher Fury) I can see no reason for it not to work again.
Currently my biggest negative to building a BEC dragster is how narrow minded the car will be and how little (relatively) use it would get.
Half of me is now toying with buying a Busa powered kit car, as I could use that on track days as well as a bit of road action.
But then I also look in E/D bikes for sale section and see some really fast silly cheap deals going......
One of my goals for the next couple of years is to go 200mph, and given my miniscule budget, bikes look the way forward for that particular goal at least.
Im not in the position to do move on it yet, and with the way the economy currently looks, unlikely next year too, but its certainly food for thought.
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