'Ring insurance
Discussion
Hi
I used this lot.
http://www.morispayment.co.uk/trackday.asp
did not have to make a claim...thank god, but they seemed reasonable.
cheers
C43
I used this lot.
http://www.morispayment.co.uk/trackday.asp
did not have to make a claim...thank god, but they seemed reasonable.
cheers
C43
competition car insurance will cover you, i spoke to them yesterday but is very expensive I was looking at £250 for a couple of days on a £5k E36 M3.
I couldn't quite work at what it covered as my main concern was any damage to another car should i drop fluid or quite unlikely hit someone.
I got the impression the guy i was speaking to thought you went on the ring at your own risk and that there were signs saying this and therefore I'm not 100% sure the insurance would have covered other cars damaged, this is very different from reports i've heard on this and other forums.
It might be worth giving them a call to discuss, i didn't take it to far as we're not going until next year so it all may have changed by then.
I couldn't quite work at what it covered as my main concern was any damage to another car should i drop fluid or quite unlikely hit someone.
I got the impression the guy i was speaking to thought you went on the ring at your own risk and that there were signs saying this and therefore I'm not 100% sure the insurance would have covered other cars damaged, this is very different from reports i've heard on this and other forums.
It might be worth giving them a call to discuss, i didn't take it to far as we're not going until next year so it all may have changed by then.
One of my work colleagues went to the 'ring last week and attempted to get insurance with his current provider. He was told that the 'ring was a race track and that no one would insure him. He later found out that the 'ring was infact a public road and therefore should be covered by european insurance policies. He was quoted around £150 for one day insurance by one provider!! He actually didn't get insurance and luckily didn't crash!
The other alternative is to hire a race track car providied by the 'ring which costs around £400, although this will insure you. Be careful though as one policy may cancel out the other!!
The other alternative is to hire a race track car providied by the 'ring which costs around £400, although this will insure you. Be careful though as one policy may cancel out the other!!
I think I'm going to hire, but just for the record:
- Most road policies have something in the small print excluding the 'Ring if you look closely enough. Addmittedly not all, but a great number and apparently even when they don't people have failed in the past to get a pay out.
- Most if not all the hire companies do provide some form of insurance. However, be aware there is usually a huuuuuuuuuuge excess and very limited liability. You could still end up paying a lot. Best advice is don't crash.
- Despite the first point it is regarded by the police as a public road (even if not the insurers). I'm told they can and sometimes do prosecute people for driving without insurance.
I haven't taken my own car to the ring yet, but my insurer (Manning UK) is one of the few that do explicitly indicate ring cover (TF days 3rd party only, track days <with an approved organiser> as UK track day coverage), which is reassuring for next years planned trip...
Previously I have always used rentals from RSR and Rent-Racecar. The excess is indeed huge, but for me the importance is knowing that (a) I am insured and (b) even though the excess is significant I know that I have that much in the bank and that is what I stand to lose if I fsck up - or indeed someone else does so and collects me. I can live with rolling the dice on a known gamble (even if it is going to hurt). Anyone who goes without knowing what their exposure is is a complete f
wit IMHO. I will quote the Northloop tagline here - "we're not playing games" : this IS serious stuff.
Moral of the story is simply : only gamble with what you can afford to lose.
Previously I have always used rentals from RSR and Rent-Racecar. The excess is indeed huge, but for me the importance is knowing that (a) I am insured and (b) even though the excess is significant I know that I have that much in the bank and that is what I stand to lose if I fsck up - or indeed someone else does so and collects me. I can live with rolling the dice on a known gamble (even if it is going to hurt). Anyone who goes without knowing what their exposure is is a complete f
wit IMHO. I will quote the Northloop tagline here - "we're not playing games" : this IS serious stuff.Moral of the story is simply : only gamble with what you can afford to lose.
Your own car insurance will definitely and certainly cover all third party risks, no matter how little your insurers want to. The fully comprehensive aspect of the cover might leave you with a bigger fight, but the potential loss of a car is relatively trivial compared to the cost of 100 metres of double armco, a long track closure, a helicopter and all of the third party damage and injury claims after you drop coolant...
GC8 said:
Your own car insurance will definitely and certainly cover all third party risks, no matter how little your insurers want to. The fully comprehensive aspect of the cover might leave you with a bigger fight, but the potential loss of a car is relatively trivial compared to the cost of 100 metres of double armco, a long track closure, a helicopter and all of the third party damage and injury claims after you drop coolant...
Which means that the insurer (or rather, their Loss Adjuster) will go over your claim with an electron microscope in order to find a reason not to pay. And they will, believe me. And do you really think you can fight an insurance company in court and win? I'd never rely on the argument "Oh, it's a public toll road so my road insurance will cover me", especially when there are millions of pounds at stake. How good is your legal German?GC8 said:
Your own car insurance will definitely and certainly cover all third party risks, no matter how little your insurers want to. The fully comprehensive aspect of the cover might leave you with a bigger fight, but the potential loss of a car is relatively trivial compared to the cost of 100 metres of double armco, a long track closure, a helicopter and all of the third party damage and injury claims after you drop coolant...
Worst advice ever.They may indeed pay out 3rd party claims, but can then reclaim the money from you if they deem you not to be insured due to a clause in your insurance contract.
Edited by m12_nathan on Saturday 20th September 20:13
m12_nathan said:
GC8 said:
Your own car insurance will definitely and certainly cover all third party risks, no matter how little your insurers want to. The fully comprehensive aspect of the cover might leave you with a bigger fight, but the potential loss of a car is relatively trivial compared to the cost of 100 metres of double armco, a long track closure, a helicopter and all of the third party damage and injury claims after you drop coolant...
Worst advice ever.They may indeed pay out 3rd party claims, but can then reclaim the money from you if they deem you not to be insured due to a clause in your insurance contract.
Edited by m12_nathan on Saturday 20th September 20:13
Long thread over on Northloop from a chap who has had a third party claim refused by his
insurers. He's currently contesting it so the jury is still out but it doesn't look entirely encouraging I'm afraid.
Noger said:
Would imagine the only way they could do that would be to claim it was not a road. Very hard to wriggle out of statutory liabilty, but clearly not impossible.
If it's the thread I think it's a buddy of mine. The insurer are claiming the 'ring is a "prepared course". They are then claiming that he is not insured upon said "prepared course". However he can find no mention of this in his documentation.1)Anything not in the documentation sent to you does not exist. The company may have a copy saying something different. Thats their problem, your copy is the one you agree to.
2)They would have to prove that he was able to identify the "prepared course" for what it was. If it looks like a road it's a road right?
Considering it's got speed limits, a road name sign, junctions, and the police write an accident report for an accident on the public highway, I'd say it's hard to identify it as anything but a road.
Still the argument is live so we'll have to wait and see the outcome.
Noger said:
Would imagine the only way they could do that would be to claim it was not a road. Very hard to wriggle out of statutory liabilty, but clearly not impossible.
According to the thread the insurers are saying it is a "prepared course" and therefore not covered.To repeat its being contested so we don't know the actual outcome yet, fingers crossed the speed limits, signs saying "German traffic law applies", "keep right", other road signs, etc. will prove that its a road.
Munter said:
1)Anything not in the documentation sent to you does not exist. The company may have a copy saying something different. Thats their problem, your copy is the one you agree to.
That would be contractual liabilty, I wonder if they are trying to argue it is not their statutory liabilty either.Although I guess I could log on and look myself rather than being lazy
Will be interesting to see what the result is, particularly if it goes to court.
tertius said:
m12_nathan said:
GC8 said:
Your own car insurance will definitely and certainly cover all third party risks, no matter how little your insurers want to. The fully comprehensive aspect of the cover might leave you with a bigger fight, but the potential loss of a car is relatively trivial compared to the cost of 100 metres of double armco, a long track closure, a helicopter and all of the third party damage and injury claims after you drop coolant...
Worst advice ever.They may indeed pay out 3rd party claims, but can then reclaim the money from you if they deem you not to be insured due to a clause in your insurance contract.
Edited by m12_nathan on Saturday 20th September 20:13
Long thread over on Northloop from a chap who has had a third party claim refused by his
insurers. He's currently contesting it so the jury is still out but it doesn't look entirely encouraging I'm afraid.
Yes, on one level I tend to agree. There is no concept of an "uninsured" Brit in Germany or elsewhere in the EU. By virtue of the 3rd EU Motor Insurance directive (or maybe the 4th, but it matters not) the UK must provide a fund to provide for claims. Your GB plate effectively guarantees that Frizt can claim against something.
Even so, an insurer may still be liable in statue even if they had clauses in about "prepared courses". You cannot get out of TP liabilty that easily. However, it is not impossible, certainly for the M6 toll road it would be difficult, but not impossible, to avoid RTA liabilty and even Article 75.
However, I have yet to find any conclusive proof that German law supports this in the same way. Having an interest in both Insurance and the 'Ring I have asked many people in the business and there is never a straight answer, or even consensus.
So whilst I have a feeling you are right, I have never seen proof, so would not want to rely on it.
Even so, an insurer may still be liable in statue even if they had clauses in about "prepared courses". You cannot get out of TP liabilty that easily. However, it is not impossible, certainly for the M6 toll road it would be difficult, but not impossible, to avoid RTA liabilty and even Article 75.
However, I have yet to find any conclusive proof that German law supports this in the same way. Having an interest in both Insurance and the 'Ring I have asked many people in the business and there is never a straight answer, or even consensus.
So whilst I have a feeling you are right, I have never seen proof, so would not want to rely on it.
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