Loans

[V8 Animal]

My lad had a flier dropped through the door today from a loan company.
Mentioning no names but a large company.
EG Borrow £300 56 weekly payments @ £9 = £504...........183.2% APR
Surely the goverment should step in here as this is clearly aimed at the low pay sector.
Total Disgrace.
And we wonder why the country is up to it's eyeballs in debt when lowlifes like these tempt the needy and rip them off.
Rant over.
V8 Animal

[Vesuvius 996]

Google for logbook loans.

437% APR...


If people are desperate enough then it's better than a crackhead loan shark. Why should the gubberment step in? People need to learn to look after themselves.


The rise of these companies shows just how bad things are.

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Tuesday 16th September 19:54

[Maxf]

What is the problem providing the terms are set out in clear, plain (dare I say simple) English, and the total repayable and rate displayed?

I'd sooner they used a reputable (albeit aimed at the lowest end of the market) company who are registered and regulated rather than Doorstep Dave and the heavy mob.

[Vesuvius 996]

Maxf said:

What is the problem providing the terms are set out in clear, plain (dare I say simple) English, and the total repayable and rate displayed?

I'd sooner they used a reputable (albeit aimed at the lowest end of the market) company who are registered and regulated rather than Doorstep Dave and the heavy mob.

Bang on.

These people are sharks, but they won't break your legs.

They provide a service to the desperate. Fair enough.


Don't like the APR, don't sign up.

[Rebuker]

Vesuvius 996 said:

Maxf said:

What is the problem providing the terms are set out in clear, plain (dare I say simple) English, and the total repayable and rate displayed?

I'd sooner they used a reputable (albeit aimed at the lowest end of the market) company who are registered and regulated rather than Doorstep Dave and the heavy mob.

Bang on.

These people are sharks, but they won't break your legs.

They provide a service to the desperate. Fair enough.


Don't like the APR, don't sign up.

I think this makes sense, but one cannot reject the converse altogether:
The existence of these companies makes debt a temptation for the poor. They may well not have bothered with thuggish loan sharks, but the sudden legitimisation of crippling debt by these companies provides a totally novel route for poor people to get their hands on humble but significant sums.

'You made the choice, you bear the interest' would hold if the person making the choice was essentially acting rationally and without undue stress. But for these amounts, it is likely that the person will be very desperate- of course, he could be a chav trying to pay off drug dealers, but it could equally be a pensioner looking to pay off his gas bill debt so he can get reconnected to stay warm. Not exactly a loan he would have much choice in.

The basic existence of these companies is probably more a sad indictment of society itself: whether the govt, or that particular society as a whole, failed to crack down on the chav with a drug problem, or help prevent pensioners from ever having to borrow money to pay basic utility bills.

These loans are therefore the corrupted, merciless devices generated by a capitalist society too ready to accept the principle of extreme, severe inequality, whose government/ lawmakers fail to adequately regulate frankly exploitative practice. So you don't get your legs broken Woohoo. But you are indebted to a cynical company which thrives on and perpetuates poverty and desperation, rather than do anything to stave it.

Just the devil's advocate view.

Edited by Rebuker on Tuesday 16th September 20:25

[eldar]

V8 Animal said:

My lad had a flier dropped through the door today from a loan company.
Mentioning no names but a large company.
EG Borrow £300 56 weekly payments @ £9 = £504...........183.2% APR
Surely the goverment should step in here as this is clearly aimed at the low pay sector.
Total Disgrace.
And we wonder why the country is up to it's eyeballs in debt when lowlifes like these tempt the needy and rip them off.
Rant over.
V8 Animal

The people who take out these loans don't usually have bank accounts, and can't borrow money anywhere else. No one is forcing them to take the loans....

Ther's one loan co that advertises on PH that has an APR of around 2000%.

[playerone]

Spoken like people who have no understanding of the types of borrowers that use these products.

Who else will lend to them?

[playerone]

Vesuvius 996 said:

The rise of these companies shows just how bad things are.

Rise? Go and find out how long Provident have been in business for.

[Rebuker]

playerone said:

Spoken like people who have no understanding of the types of borrowers that use these products.

Who else will lend to them?

Agreed.

But argument cannot be blindly applied without at least looking at the dynamics of the situation.

USA sold weapons to Iraq. Theire defence: who else wiuld sell to them?

Newsagents repeatedly sell alcohol to desperate, suffering, death's door alcoholics. Their argument: 'If they don't buy here then they will buy somewhere else.

The effort to try to rectify some of society's ills, like extreme poverty, are begun by at least lending a basic nod towards the fact that we should still strive to change things: believeing in 'Oh, their choice, who else would lend to them?' is true, and possibly realistic, but it remains essentially a compensatory, consolatory, apologetic reason.

Things should really be otherwise if so many people in the 4th richest country in the world are still below the poverty line: and remember, most of these people are old and vulnerable.

Again, just an effort to balance the views.

[playerone]

Rebuker said:

playerone said:

Spoken like people who have no understanding of the types of borrowers that use these products.

Who else will lend to them?

Agreed.

But argument cannot be blindly applied without at least looking at the dynamics of the situation.

USA sold weapons to Iraq. Theire defence: who else wiuld sell to them?

Newsagents repeatedly sell alcohol to desperate, suffering, death's door alcoholics. Their argument: 'If they don't buy here then they will buy somewhere else.

The effort to try to rectify some of society's ills, like extreme poverty, are begun by at least lending a basic nod towards the fact that we should still strive to change things: believeing in 'Oh, their choice, who else would lend to them?' is true, and possibly realistic, but it remains essentially a compensatory, consolatory, apologetic reason.

Of course. Anyone who is involved in anything has to morally justify it to themselves unless you have no morals in the first place. Large banks invest in arms producers, oil companies and other industries that a large number of people disagree with. I dont know many people who work in sports stores crying themselves to sleep over sweat shops.The list is endless.


[quote]Things should really be otherwise if so many people in the 4th richest country in the world are still below the poverty line: and remember, most of these people are old and vulnerable.

Again, just an effort to balance the views.

Most people are concerned by the amount of money spent on social services in this country. Yet at the same time the people who use these loans are running a household on around £100 per week, sometimes less. I know I couldn't do that. It doesn't leave any margin for error.

Very few elderly people use these loans the average customer is 25-35 and female with 2 children. They are most definitely vulnerable in the sense that if they cant borrow the money there will no other place to get it.

[Rebuker]

Now look. How can I lazily manufacture another lengthy and pompous retort if you keep messing up the quotes?

[Rebuker]

But whilst you're busy correcting your unforgivable formatting crimes, I will say this: regarding the 'moral distance' thing: people in sports shops do not cry themselves to sleep over sweatshops because the direct responsibility, and the proximity, and the material influence of these people on the sweatshops, is not signifcant.


With these silly loan companies lending to the desperate, and banks financing civil war weapons, their victims/ customers/ co-dependents are directly affected, directly involved. It is as if the spotty saleskid in Sports Soccer was himslef financing a sweatshop just back in the stockroom, and then going home and buying a Bentley and giving himself a bonus.


Then they would plead: Where else would the kids go to to find jobs? They do have families back in the villages who need to get money, If not us, then they will become child prostitutes'. True, but shallow and self-serving.

Possibly making the best of a bad situation, but still unacceptable.

Edited by Rebuker on Tuesday 16th September 21:32