Tempted by an Elise.
Discussion
I currently own a 2004 S2000 and I've been considering an Elise for a while now as I've always loved them.
What are the pro's and con's compared to an S2000 in terms of driving (my bro-in-law won't let me drive his). With fuel prices and tax, they're a tempting proposition.
My bro in law has a 2002 sports tourer. We've had our cars pretty much the same time and whilst nothing apart from wear and tear items have gone on my car, he's had the following problems. Head gasket going after 22,000 miles. Drivers side window keeps coming off the runners. Coil pack needed replacing. Vinyl covering around windscreen frame bubbling and coming off. Dashboad felt/alcantara bubbling.
Are these common problems or has he just been unlucky? His car was bought virtually new from SGT near Maidenhead.
What are the pro's and con's compared to an S2000 in terms of driving (my bro-in-law won't let me drive his). With fuel prices and tax, they're a tempting proposition.
My bro in law has a 2002 sports tourer. We've had our cars pretty much the same time and whilst nothing apart from wear and tear items have gone on my car, he's had the following problems. Head gasket going after 22,000 miles. Drivers side window keeps coming off the runners. Coil pack needed replacing. Vinyl covering around windscreen frame bubbling and coming off. Dashboad felt/alcantara bubbling.
Are these common problems or has he just been unlucky? His car was bought virtually new from SGT near Maidenhead.
I have a 97 S1 Elise with a few mods and a friend has lent me his S2000 for 6 months while he is away, so I can probably help.
If you want a car to drive every day and you don't go on track then an S2000 is a much more sensible proposition. But if you go on track, just use the car for weekends or want to use it every day but don't care about rattles, squeaks, leaks, difficult access and occasional leaks (like me) then the Elise is the way forward.
I love the way the S2k feels like a normal car, is solid, bulletproof, doesn't attract attention and goes like stink when you wind it up. But it feels dull unless you thrash it and the engine has no punch unless you are gunning it. The Elise is much cheaper to run, too.
I rotate the S2000 and the Elise and drive them each for a week at a time. I do about 12k miles a year plus a load of track days. The S2000 is great, but I actually miss the Elise when I don't drive it. I've owned and driven all sorts of things but the Elise is the only car which I really miss like that. You put up with its faults. If I had to choose one of the two cars, I'd choose the Elise again.
HTH
If you want a car to drive every day and you don't go on track then an S2000 is a much more sensible proposition. But if you go on track, just use the car for weekends or want to use it every day but don't care about rattles, squeaks, leaks, difficult access and occasional leaks (like me) then the Elise is the way forward.
I love the way the S2k feels like a normal car, is solid, bulletproof, doesn't attract attention and goes like stink when you wind it up. But it feels dull unless you thrash it and the engine has no punch unless you are gunning it. The Elise is much cheaper to run, too.
I rotate the S2000 and the Elise and drive them each for a week at a time. I do about 12k miles a year plus a load of track days. The S2000 is great, but I actually miss the Elise when I don't drive it. I've owned and driven all sorts of things but the Elise is the only car which I really miss like that. You put up with its faults. If I had to choose one of the two cars, I'd choose the Elise again.
HTH
I drive an 99 S1 elise and mum has an S2000, which I've driven a few times.
Agree with Birdthom, S2000 is more sensible every day car, but not as much fun.
Still a great car, but doesn't have that drive me pull of the elise.
As to the problems your friend has had. Only probs mine has had is general wear and tear, which
results in upgrades
Agree with Birdthom, S2000 is more sensible every day car, but not as much fun.
Still a great car, but doesn't have that drive me pull of the elise.
As to the problems your friend has had. Only probs mine has had is general wear and tear, which
results in upgrades
Test drove the s2k a couple of times.
I found it lacked a sence of occasion. It felt plush and smart like a managers office but furnished with common office furniture.
The steering lacked feel. I was bitterly disapointed because I was a honda fan and owned CRX's and preludes.
Even if you never drive the 'liz at 10/10ths, the occasion and drama of the car are worth the lack of comforts.
I found it lacked a sence of occasion. It felt plush and smart like a managers office but furnished with common office furniture.
The steering lacked feel. I was bitterly disapointed because I was a honda fan and owned CRX's and preludes.
Even if you never drive the 'liz at 10/10ths, the occasion and drama of the car are worth the lack of comforts.
Gooby said:
Test drove the s2k a couple of times.
I found it lacked a sence of occasion. It felt plush and smart like a managers office but furnished with common office furniture.
The steering lacked feel. I was bitterly disapointed because I was a honda fan and owned CRX's and preludes.
Even if you never drive the 'liz at 10/10ths, the occasion and drama of the car are worth the lack of comforts.
yeah, i have an absolute blast driving the Elise round town at 30mph...I found it lacked a sence of occasion. It felt plush and smart like a managers office but furnished with common office furniture.
The steering lacked feel. I was bitterly disapointed because I was a honda fan and owned CRX's and preludes.
Even if you never drive the 'liz at 10/10ths, the occasion and drama of the car are worth the lack of comforts.
I've had a S1 Elise 190, 2 S2000s and now a S2 Exige.
How does the Elise compare to the S2000?
Well, they're different propositions - though oddly the Exige I now drive is strangely reminiscent of the S2000 in terms of power delivery, but in all other respects they're poles apart.
Despite what a lot of people might say, the K-Series cars need a bit of TLC or do some preventative maintenance. If you look for details on reducing the thermal shock as cold water from the rad hits the hot cylinder head, you can reduce the possibility of head gasket failure - the other issues you mention sound like problems with an early car, generally S2 cars seem less troublesome than their S1 counterparts (in my experience, please don't shoot me for saying that). Though the S1 denitiely gave the more raw and uncomprimised experience.
I've only had the Exige for a month, but it feels better screwed together and more 'solid' than the S1, certainly people's experiences seem closer to S2000 ownership in that as long as tyres & geometry are correct, the car needs little in the way of maintenance other than the usual. If you track the car, which many Lotus owners do, expect wear and tear to be significantly lower than the S2000 which I found to be high with track work.
Servicing and tyres seem about the same between both. To be honest, I think you need to keep on top of Lotus upkeep a bit more closely, as small problems manifest themselves more quickly thanks to the lack of insulation from the mechanicals.
Driving? Well they're very different. An Elise will always give the 'purer' experience, you'll feel more connected to the car, feel able to push a little harder through corners and get on the power earlier. The S2000 gained an undeserved reputation for spitting drivers into the scenery, it's no worse than other 240bhp RWD cars so long as tyres and geometry are within limits - usually it's the drivers that are at fault, loathe though they are to admit it. The Elise is no different, drive like a plonker and it'll bite, though often it's understeer rather than oversteer that is the problem.
Long motorway distances in the Elise are a bit more of a chore, but not that much worse than the S2000, though given the choice, I'd go for the Honda.
Getting the roof off the Elise is a pain compared to the 6 second job of the Honda and it's harder to get in and out of (if you have a female passenger they think it's amusing the first couple of times, then it's just a pain).
In all though, a journey is more of an occasion in an Elise than an S2000, and as long as you can live with the greater inconvenience it's a 'better' car for the enthusiastic driver.
How does the Elise compare to the S2000?
Well, they're different propositions - though oddly the Exige I now drive is strangely reminiscent of the S2000 in terms of power delivery, but in all other respects they're poles apart.
Despite what a lot of people might say, the K-Series cars need a bit of TLC or do some preventative maintenance. If you look for details on reducing the thermal shock as cold water from the rad hits the hot cylinder head, you can reduce the possibility of head gasket failure - the other issues you mention sound like problems with an early car, generally S2 cars seem less troublesome than their S1 counterparts (in my experience, please don't shoot me for saying that). Though the S1 denitiely gave the more raw and uncomprimised experience.
I've only had the Exige for a month, but it feels better screwed together and more 'solid' than the S1, certainly people's experiences seem closer to S2000 ownership in that as long as tyres & geometry are correct, the car needs little in the way of maintenance other than the usual. If you track the car, which many Lotus owners do, expect wear and tear to be significantly lower than the S2000 which I found to be high with track work.
Servicing and tyres seem about the same between both. To be honest, I think you need to keep on top of Lotus upkeep a bit more closely, as small problems manifest themselves more quickly thanks to the lack of insulation from the mechanicals.
Driving? Well they're very different. An Elise will always give the 'purer' experience, you'll feel more connected to the car, feel able to push a little harder through corners and get on the power earlier. The S2000 gained an undeserved reputation for spitting drivers into the scenery, it's no worse than other 240bhp RWD cars so long as tyres and geometry are within limits - usually it's the drivers that are at fault, loathe though they are to admit it. The Elise is no different, drive like a plonker and it'll bite, though often it's understeer rather than oversteer that is the problem.
Long motorway distances in the Elise are a bit more of a chore, but not that much worse than the S2000, though given the choice, I'd go for the Honda.
Getting the roof off the Elise is a pain compared to the 6 second job of the Honda and it's harder to get in and out of (if you have a female passenger they think it's amusing the first couple of times, then it's just a pain).
In all though, a journey is more of an occasion in an Elise than an S2000, and as long as you can live with the greater inconvenience it's a 'better' car for the enthusiastic driver.
Stating the obvious but also consult with the other half if there is one. Elise is great fun if you 'get it', but it is rather more hardcore, meaning if you both use it, they other half needs to 'get it' too, otherwise you'll have a lifetime of squabbling over avoiding using the Elise.
My OH is only just coming around to it now, after almost 2 years, at first she hated it and would avoid using it like the plague. Now she's coming round and seems to enjoy it more, but its been an up hill struggle at times.
Edited to say you have a bro-in-law therefore most defintely do have an OH to consider, doh.
My OH is only just coming around to it now, after almost 2 years, at first she hated it and would avoid using it like the plague. Now she's coming round and seems to enjoy it more, but its been an up hill struggle at times.
Edited to say you have a bro-in-law therefore most defintely do have an OH to consider, doh.
Edited by SeanyD on Wednesday 24th September 11:36
I considered the same thing. What swing me to the Elise is the driving expereince, I believe parts are cheaper, working on them is pretty easy but overall the cost of the car. You can get a good S1 Elise for in the £7k these days. I'm not really sure how good a similar priced S2000 would be. Probably much higher mileage.
Whilst the S2000 has better space and more comfort, it is worse on fuel and added that it will now get hit with the extra tax next year running costs are up.
For me I can live with an Elise everyday, and it's just me. For grunt I have the TVR. Also the price is quite a big thing. For a similar S2000 you are looking at £-4k more.
Whilst the S2000 has better space and more comfort, it is worse on fuel and added that it will now get hit with the extra tax next year running costs are up.
For me I can live with an Elise everyday, and it's just me. For grunt I have the TVR. Also the price is quite a big thing. For a similar S2000 you are looking at £-4k more.
I've also had an S2000 (04 version) and loved it. I loved the creature comforts of it all, especially the super fast leccy roof, air con, bit boot, and the sound of the thing when the vtec kicked in (yo!).
However, I'd also had a vx220 previously. I agree with others that the S2000 is very plush, and was great fun at the top end, but for me it felt like a step backwards from what I actually wanted. What I wanted was a stripped out car that gave me more feedback, and was more planted to the road.
Seeing as I'd had the vx, i went for the exige - no regrets...
However, I'd also had a vx220 previously. I agree with others that the S2000 is very plush, and was great fun at the top end, but for me it felt like a step backwards from what I actually wanted. What I wanted was a stripped out car that gave me more feedback, and was more planted to the road.
Seeing as I'd had the vx, i went for the exige - no regrets...
I am also thinking of changing my S2k for an Elise either a 111s or 111r. I know they both have great 0-60 times but back in the real world what are they like for overtaking 50-90 mph stuff? On private roads the Honda will reach 120mph quite quickly. Is the Elise the same or does it run out of puff when it reaches a ton?
twcullen said:
I am also thinking of changing my S2k for an Elise either a 111s or 111r. I know they both have great 0-60 times but back in the real world what are they like for overtaking 50-90 mph stuff? On private roads the Honda will reach 120mph quite quickly. Is the Elise the same or does it run out of puff when it reaches a ton?
well, i'd say my 111R is actually a better overtaking machine than my 996 was...It doesnt have the torque of the porker, but drop a couple of cogs and im frequently amazed how easily it can slip around traffic...
to answer your questions - most of those "problems" other than HGF would be classed as common niggles in a hand built car.
Dont buy any handbuilt sportscar if you cant deal with a few minor things like that - right up to Aston Martin you will get some small probs
HGF - a known issue with the Rover K series engine ...Land Rover Freelanders seem to have been affected even worse - not a big deal to fix - about £500 ..or even better, always keep an AA parts n labour warranty on your car each year...but to be honest, if youre not ready for a £500 here and there (consumables are more than that) then you dont want an Elise
Dont buy any handbuilt sportscar if you cant deal with a few minor things like that - right up to Aston Martin you will get some small probs
HGF - a known issue with the Rover K series engine ...Land Rover Freelanders seem to have been affected even worse - not a big deal to fix - about £500 ..or even better, always keep an AA parts n labour warranty on your car each year...but to be honest, if youre not ready for a £500 here and there (consumables are more than that) then you dont want an Elise
Gooby said:
Test drove the s2k a couple of times.
I found it lacked a sence of occasion. It felt plush and smart like a managers office but furnished with common office furniture.
The steering lacked feel. I was bitterly disapointed because I was a honda fan and owned CRX's and preludes.
Even if you never drive the 'liz at 10/10ths, the occasion and drama of the car are worth the lack of comforts.
As always, this man speaks the thruth!I found it lacked a sence of occasion. It felt plush and smart like a managers office but furnished with common office furniture.
The steering lacked feel. I was bitterly disapointed because I was a honda fan and owned CRX's and preludes.
Even if you never drive the 'liz at 10/10ths, the occasion and drama of the car are worth the lack of comforts.
We had an S1 then an S2, then a S2000. Oh the shear disappointment!! The S2000 is barely half the car the Elise is. No steering feed back, ridiculusly twitchy in the wet. And LESS, yes less room inside than the Elise!
My advice! Ditch the S2000 and get an Elise! But prepare yourself for kick in the b
ks when selling the honda! There are now worthless!! High tax, High Insurance, Low MPG and super unleaded! In this day and age..... Good luck! I wish we`d never touched one!sorry, just my 2p!
I was utterly dissapointed in the S2000 when i was looking for my current car
The Boxter was fantastic right up until I drove the Elise
The elise made the Boxter feel mundane, the Z4 was attrocious ride quality .. only car I drove that gave me a bad back and the S2000 ... well the guy at the dealers seemed scared of it . and it was the most skittish (i drove them all in torrential rain on my first test drive) Id like to try a properly sorted Z4 one day but in all honnesty they were all more money than the elise both to buy and to run, and they arent as much fun or as good looking
The Boxter was fantastic right up until I drove the Elise
The elise made the Boxter feel mundane, the Z4 was attrocious ride quality .. only car I drove that gave me a bad back and the S2000 ... well the guy at the dealers seemed scared of it . and it was the most skittish (i drove them all in torrential rain on my first test drive) Id like to try a properly sorted Z4 one day but in all honnesty they were all more money than the elise both to buy and to run, and they arent as much fun or as good lookingUnusually for me, instead of judiciously and extensively conducting exhaustive roadtests, comparisons and market research from the Alps to the Nordschleife to mid-Wales - all from the comfort of my laptop - before beginning the car-hunt in ernest, I actually bothered to go out and drive a few cars.
I was very impressed with the S2000. I thought the steering was responsive, the ride/handling good and the engine characteristic for a four cylinder. It's relatively refined and comfortable. Not great for taller drivers though. However I didn't want an everyday car and the Elise does the weekend thing even better. The steering is (cliche) telepathic, the ride/handling just enough of a compromise to give race-car on the road usability, and the engine does its job well.
I also drove a Boxster S. It's kind of halfway between the Elise and the S2000, but frankly wasn't enough of either.
I was very impressed with the S2000. I thought the steering was responsive, the ride/handling good and the engine characteristic for a four cylinder. It's relatively refined and comfortable. Not great for taller drivers though. However I didn't want an everyday car and the Elise does the weekend thing even better. The steering is (cliche) telepathic, the ride/handling just enough of a compromise to give race-car on the road usability, and the engine does its job well.
I also drove a Boxster S. It's kind of halfway between the Elise and the S2000, but frankly wasn't enough of either.
Strangely I am semi considering swapping my Elise for an s2000 as it’s my only car and as much as I love my Elise sometimes I think maybe a bit more comfort might be nice. If anyone has a nice example of a pre 2001 S2K (road tax changes) then they might be able to tempt me for a swap as sadly my Elise is spending far more time on motorways than it ever does on a track or nice B roads.
Seems to be the S2000 needs a geometry setup done by someone other than the dealers who are not really clued up about fully adjustable suspension (well, they wouldn't be, they deal with Civics and CR-Vs all day).
Once set up correctly, the S2000 is not at all twitchy in the wet, but like the Lotus, a good geometry setup is needed before the car becomes what it should be.
Once set up correctly, the S2000 is not at all twitchy in the wet, but like the Lotus, a good geometry setup is needed before the car becomes what it should be.
Mark Benson said:
Seems to be the S2000 needs a geometry setup done by someone other than the dealers who are not really clued up about fully adjustable suspension (well, they wouldn't be, they deal with Civics and CR-Vs all day).
Once set up correctly, the S2000 is not at all twitchy in the wet, but like the Lotus, a good geometry setup is needed before the car becomes what it should be.
Thats what i figured .. but i couldnt be bothered searching for one that was set up right to test drive and the Elise was sooo much better looking and driving. I do think id like a nice modded S2000 but it would never be as good as the EliseOnce set up correctly, the S2000 is not at all twitchy in the wet, but like the Lotus, a good geometry setup is needed before the car becomes what it should be.
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