Super fuels a waste of money?
Discussion
9884booth said:
With all the stuff in the press today, can I run my 4.0l Chim on ordinary unleaded? Will it do any damage?
I only ever ran my Chim on Optimax when I was out for a coutryside hoon. When I used it day to day it always had regular in it. Won't do any damage, you may hear slight pinking from the engine, which a slight timing change will solve.Edit: I ran the car for three years and 40k miles like this, it's on 102500 now, and it's about to be back on the road for more of the same!
Edited by _Dan_ on Thursday 25th September 18:32
Typical 'Which' test, take something out of context and you get the result you're after.
An 1.6 Focus of course won't benefit, but put it in a car that can benefit eg a TVR and it does work.
I run my Griff on V power and it performs better, no pinking and I even get more MPG when I'm running it.
An 1.6 Focus of course won't benefit, but put it in a car that can benefit eg a TVR and it does work.
I run my Griff on V power and it performs better, no pinking and I even get more MPG when I'm running it.
Not a waste of money at all. There are two distinct benefits to V Power. Firstly the detergent additive is known by the TVR community to be excellent for eliminating the fouling stepper motor problems. The main benefit is the improved MPG. With normal fuel using my car as a daily driver I was averaging 190 per tank. With V Power I get 225 miles. I'm not sure of the price difference these days but when I did this test a few years back it worked out the V Power (Optimax) was cheaper mile for mile.
There is no discernable power difference but the other benefits make it worthwhile in my opinion.
I haven't cleaned my stepper motor in the last 20k. Prior to that I was cleaning it at 3k intervals.
There is no discernable power difference but the other benefits make it worthwhile in my opinion.
I haven't cleaned my stepper motor in the last 20k. Prior to that I was cleaning it at 3k intervals.
Edited by tvrbob on Thursday 25th September 20:41
cripes, that is an improvement! 
The need for the higher octane is more to cope with ignition timing limitations of the standard distributor setup than the compression ratio.
So you have three options.
1. Run high octane, leave the ignition standard.
2. Adjust the distributor timing to allow the use of 95 octane. This will lose a little power.
3. Fit a fully mapped ignition and run low octane. You can still run the higher octane, but the gains will be insignificant unless you also increase the compression ratio. If you have an ECU that can switch maps, then you can select whichever map is needed for the fuel in your tank.
I run a fully mapped system and use any old 95 octane fuel. It never pinks or causes any other problems, and it makes a lot more power than standard. I am on standard compression ratio, but my dynamic compression ratio is slightly lower due to an H404 camshaft.
So you have three options.
1. Run high octane, leave the ignition standard.
2. Adjust the distributor timing to allow the use of 95 octane. This will lose a little power.
3. Fit a fully mapped ignition and run low octane. You can still run the higher octane, but the gains will be insignificant unless you also increase the compression ratio. If you have an ECU that can switch maps, then you can select whichever map is needed for the fuel in your tank.
I run a fully mapped system and use any old 95 octane fuel. It never pinks or causes any other problems, and it makes a lot more power than standard. I am on standard compression ratio, but my dynamic compression ratio is slightly lower due to an H404 camshaft.
Edited by Uncle Fester on Wednesday 1st October 09:45
I've not noticed any difference between Tesco Super and Shell VPower. Personally, i feel the engine runs smoothest on BP Ultimate, but i rarely use it as it is much more expensive (or was when i lasted checked some months ago)
I have used regular unleaded before and though i didn't notice any drop in power, the engine was pinking loads and throttle response seemed slower.
I have used regular unleaded before and though i didn't notice any drop in power, the engine was pinking loads and throttle response seemed slower.
BBR said:
I have a $.0 HC. Absolutely no doubt that mine runs better on V power.
Agreed, steadier tickover and smoother pick-up. When I visit places like Scotland where super fuels are harder to find so the use of 95 is unavoidable I sence a rapid reduction in smooth power delivery. It only takes a couple of tank-fulls to start bu99ering up the tickover. tvrbob said:
Firstly the detergent additive is known by the TVR community to be excellent
I noted this in the main thread. This is why although you may not get any mpg or performance increase in a standard car, you should get some benefit from the engine cleaning properties which should lead to lower maintenance costs and help it to run more smoothly, thus offsetting some of the extra cost of the fuel.tvrbob said:
BBR said:
I have a $.0 HC. Absolutely no doubt that mine runs better on V power.
Agreed, steadier tickover and smoother pick-up. When I visit places like Scotland where super fuels are harder to find so the use of 95 is unavoidable I sence a rapid reduction in smooth power delivery. It only takes a couple of tank-fulls to start bu99ering up the tickover. I've just had to put some BP 95 due to lack of high octane at station (I was running on fumes). I could tell when the new fuel had run through the pipes as the shunting at low speed got worse.
I did some research for an article and spoke with an ex BP engineer who had worked on superfuels. He told me that there's little difference between Shell and BP SFs in terms of the end user. When coming to a decision on what the pricing should be they went for the average savings and then halved it and added that the the cost. It is fair to say that the car most likely to benefit from the SFs is a car that is not in the first flush of its youth as a major advantge is the cleaning abilites of the fuel. However, every car will benefit from the fuel in the long run.
The stepper motor was mentioned and I must agree with an earlier poster. I clean mine every six months and the difference is noticeable.
Another bit of advice from the chap was that once you have benefited from the cleaning additives - mileage would depend on how old your engine is - then you can gain all the benefits of SFs by alternate fillings of SF and 95RON. He said he was unable to tell the difference. However, the trick is to top up when half full.
For a new car the benefits are long term and one could go for mixing fuels I suppose from the start.
There is no beneift, however, from buying higher octane fuel if your car is set up to run on 95.
I run on SFs only in my Chim unless I'm out on a run where I don't know the area and can't find an outlet.
I topped up in France with their local cooking petrol and my car could not cope with it. It took to the second refill to get things back to normal.
I'm sold on the stuff. I use 3:1 95:SF on my Mondeo and I can tell when the SF is due.
I'm not too happy with some of the testing that Which? perform and the stats need to be carefully considered before going along with their recommendation. That said, I normally go by their BBs on fridges and vacuum cleaners and have been happy with them. However, they recommended a Renault 12 and it was by far the worst car I've ever owned. I went with their decision on slot cars for my lad and regretted it. I can't remember why but it cost me a bit to go for the most suitable.
The stepper motor was mentioned and I must agree with an earlier poster. I clean mine every six months and the difference is noticeable.
Another bit of advice from the chap was that once you have benefited from the cleaning additives - mileage would depend on how old your engine is - then you can gain all the benefits of SFs by alternate fillings of SF and 95RON. He said he was unable to tell the difference. However, the trick is to top up when half full.
For a new car the benefits are long term and one could go for mixing fuels I suppose from the start.
There is no beneift, however, from buying higher octane fuel if your car is set up to run on 95.
I run on SFs only in my Chim unless I'm out on a run where I don't know the area and can't find an outlet.
I topped up in France with their local cooking petrol and my car could not cope with it. It took to the second refill to get things back to normal.
I'm sold on the stuff. I use 3:1 95:SF on my Mondeo and I can tell when the SF is due.
I'm not too happy with some of the testing that Which? perform and the stats need to be carefully considered before going along with their recommendation. That said, I normally go by their BBs on fridges and vacuum cleaners and have been happy with them. However, they recommended a Renault 12 and it was by far the worst car I've ever owned. I went with their decision on slot cars for my lad and regretted it. I can't remember why but it cost me a bit to go for the most suitable.
I always get a chuckle out of these threads, My car runs great all the time, I put regular unleadded in for most journies, fast road and cruising, I do put super in for track day but I can't tell the difference. Supermarket, Shell, Texaco, it always runs great, so you have to wonder, why pay more?
Just because you can't hear "pinking" doesn't mean that detonation isn't happening.
Running a lower octane will not noticeably affect the performance to any other than professional racing drivers, but the MPG difference is definitely a short-term disadvantage to an engine set up to run higher octane. In the long run, premature wear-and-tear to the engine is almost inevitable. Bottom line? You might save a few pounds now, but you'll pay later...
Running a lower octane will not noticeably affect the performance to any other than professional racing drivers, but the MPG difference is definitely a short-term disadvantage to an engine set up to run higher octane. In the long run, premature wear-and-tear to the engine is almost inevitable. Bottom line? You might save a few pounds now, but you'll pay later...
High performance car = high performance fuel..
My baby gets fed on the best... V power or Optimax... it's part of the family after all!
For anyone reading this who is considering buying a TVR... walk away if you can only afford cheap fuel, it's only a tiny percentage of the overall running costs.
Each to their own, it's the age old corn flakes debate... some people by generic but none come close to the real thing, albeit both will keep you alive.
My baby gets fed on the best... V power or Optimax... it's part of the family after all!
For anyone reading this who is considering buying a TVR... walk away if you can only afford cheap fuel, it's only a tiny percentage of the overall running costs.
Each to their own, it's the age old corn flakes debate... some people by generic but none come close to the real thing, albeit both will keep you alive.
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