Best after market suspension

[mark]

Just wondering what peoplesthought were on replacement suspension for a Chimaera...

Leda?
Spax?
Koni?
Nitron?

[Steve_T]

Of that list it has to be Nitron. Although the cost of them is a good bit more.

[.Mark]

Just fitted some AVO adjustables on the rear of my Chimaera and am very impressed.
Still playing with the damper settings but right out of the box they felt better.
Joolz did the honours mail order for me at less than the cost of replacing them with TVR originals.
1 hour to fit both sides, another hour or so to get the ride height correct.

[manek]

My experience of Leda was not good -- I had one break not long after having had it fitted. To be fair, others have had different experiences...

[hut49]

.Mark said:

Just fitted some AVO adjustables on the rear of my Chimaera and am very impressed. Still playing with the damper settings but right out of the box they felt better. Joolz did the honours mail order for me at less than the cost of replacing them with TVR originals. 1 hour to fit both sides, another hour or so to get the ride height correct.

Intersted to read of your experience. I've done about 1000 miles since having both my rear Bilsteins dealer-replaced with AVO adjustables. I think I've come to the conclusion that they are unsuitable for the Chim. I'm running them on +5 clicks - any higher than this and the backend bounces around and the ride is impossible to live with over average urban surfaces. It's OK at speed but between 30-40 it sucks. Any lower setting than +5 and it just wallows without damping. I think I'm going to have them replaced with the original Bils.
What AVOs have you fitted? Presumably there are different models depending on the vehicle. Any one got any ideas?

[cyberface]

From talking to various people at track days about Leda suspension, it is very good but high maintenance, and the after-sales customer service doesn't get great plaudits.

However the people I know with Leda aren't TVR owners (mainly the Scooby crew) - so this ain't personal experience.

[.Mark]

hut49 said:

Intersted to read of your experience.

To be honest I couldn't tell you what type they are, I took Joolz at his word that they were good.
I did replace the springs too don't know if you did.

The roads around us are pretty diabolical and for the first week or so ran them at standard clicks (i.e. full anti-clockwise). Driving the car out of tight corners and mini-roundabouts I found the traction great, I could plant the loud pedal and got no wheelspin or sliding.
To be fair though I only really drive it at weekends so probably am not best qualified to say. The wife uses the car during the week and said it felt good on most roads although a bit soft on a particular road she uses sometimes so I have put them on +1. I'll keep doing this until she feels happy that it's properly planted on that road.

[mojorider]

I have gone with Nitrons and they are fantastic. On the trip to Le Mans I pushed very hard on the motorway and the car was rock solid.

For day to day the are good, much better feel under braking and cornering.

[K4TRV]

hut49 said:

Intersted to read of your experience. I've done about 1000 miles since having both my rear Bilsteins dealer-replaced with AVO adjustables. I think I've come to the conclusion that they are unsuitable for the Chim. I'm running them on +5 clicks - any higher than this and the backend bounces around and the ride is impossible to live with over average urban surfaces. It's OK at speed but between 30-40 it sucks. Any lower setting than +5 and it just wallows without damping. I think I'm going to have them replaced with the original Bils. What AVOs have you fitted? Presumably there are different models depending on the vehicle. Any one got any ideas?

Hut49, Just completed 300 miles with new poly bushes and AVOs all around and feel (sorry) just like you've said. I was hoping they would "soften-up" by now, but you've done 1000 miles !!! The low speed control is non-existant, just solid!! Maybe this is just a mileage thing?? Is the further adjustment we don't know about ??

I have, with the bushes, stopped "tram-lining", and thought the bushes were also contributing to the "stiffness" of ride. Think I'll still hold out, it has, on 15 clicks, become much more complient than when I collected it, but is still much harsher than I anticipated. Like you I tried reducing the damping, but with so few miles didn't see much difference. I also thought about squirting WD 40 over all the bushes to see if that would help, but not tried that yet.


Sorry, that's not much help!!

[Nobby]

I run Spax with uprated springs and they are excellent. There's some compromise on straight line traction but cornering is massively improved. For the first time my Chamaera handles like a proper sports car and is so much more predictable than before.

[GreenV8S]

That ties up with my experience of AVOs on the V8S, the adjustment was far too coarse and they went from 'sea-sick' on five clicks to 'losing fillings' on seven clicks. Even on moderately soft (wallowy) settings they were quite crashy. Maybe all AVOs aren't the same, I don't know. I just know I was very disappointed after spending quite a few hundred quid on them to find they were so poor. Spaxes were a bit better when they were working but out of three complete sets of Gas Spax I never did get a full set working properly and one damper literally fell apart while I was driving along, dumping the car on the ground. Based on that experience I've decided AVO and Spax are cheap and cheerful budget dampers and really not fit for use on a TVR. But who knows, maybe their more expensive ones work better. The Nitrons I've got on now are in a totally different league, silky smooth even when they're on very hard settings, and I'll be replacing the current early ones with the latest NTRs soon. Arguably the best performance enhancement you can get for the money.

[.Mark]

You've all got me a bit worried now - am I imagining mine are at least as good as the originals?

[spend]

.Mark said:

You've all got me a bit worried now - am I imagining mine are at least as good as the originals?

Might be the Julian spring wizardry?

[k3njw]

I had Nitrons fitted to my Chimaera and the handling difference was enormous. There's a large dip on a left sweep on one of the MK dual carraigeways that at 90 previously had the car really wallowing but once the Nitrons were fitted I hardly noticed it was there. That one dip convinced me it was money well spent.

[joospeed]

Getting the AVOS to work is all about the springing, they're supposed to be valved for the std springs, and will work like that , but they're softer in bump than the std dampers until you start winding the adjuster up, then you end up with a car that's good in bump but has too much rebound, the back end jacks down onto the higher spring rate of the dual-wound springs and you end up going from just enough bump from the damper and spring to too much once the spring gets coil bound on it's soft rate. Dual rate springs are best avoided if you can, fit good single rate springs and adjust the damping from that. Reckon on something around 250-275 on the rea of an otherwise std chimaera. Best bet is to buy a proven spring and damper package that's known to work. Current AVOS are streets ahead of the old versions that used to break S rear arms and are a very good introduction to budget adjustable suspension, or those people wanting the replace tvr dampers without breaking the bank, they have a two year guarantee too , so on replacement grounds it's a no-brainer really, I'm surprised TVR sell any STD dampers at all!

[K4TRV]

joospeed said:

Getting the AVOS to work is all about the springing, they're supposed to be valved for the std springs, and will work like that [snippity] ..........[Snip] are a very good introduction to budget adjustable suspension, or those people wanting the replace tvr dampers without breaking the bank, they have a two year guarantee too , so on replacement grounds it's a no-brainer really, I'm surprised TVR sell any STD dampers at all!

Thanks Joospeed. My "installer" of AVOs, Std springs and poly bushes, left AVOs on 15 clicks. Presume I should back off the rear to 5/8-clicks to allow more compliency (softness?) on bump/rebound that I currently get at 15?? Must we have front & rear at same settings?? Presume we could have a diff of 5-clicks (or so ??) as Chimaera is not 50/50 on weight distribution ??

Hoping you'll reply - Tks

Trev McM

[.Mark]

joospeed said:

Getting the AVOS to work is all about the springing, they're supposed to be valved for the std springs, and will work like that , but they're softer in bump than the std dampers until you start winding the adjuster up, then you end up with a car that's good in bump but has too much rebound, the back end jacks down onto the higher spring rate of the dual-wound springs and you end up going from just enough bump from the damper and spring to too much once the spring gets coil bound on it's soft rate. Dual rate springs are best avoided if you can, fit good single rate springs and adjust the damping from that. Reckon on something around 250-275 on the rea of an otherwise std chimaera. Best bet is to buy a proven spring and damper package that's known to work. Current AVOS are streets ahead of the old versions that used to break S rear arms and are a very good introduction to budget adjustable suspension, or those people wanting the replace tvr dampers without breaking the bank, they have a two year guarantee too , so on replacement grounds it's a no-brainer really, I'm surprised TVR sell any STD dampers at all!

And once more in English Joolz???
Presumably you fitted good single rate springs to mine?

[joospeed]

K4TRV said:

joospeed said: Getting the AVOS to work is all about the springing, they're supposed to be valved for the std springs, and will work like that [snippity] ..........[Snip] are a very good introduction to budget adjustable suspension, or those people wanting the replace tvr dampers without breaking the bank, they have a two year guarantee too , so on replacement grounds it's a no-brainer really, I'm surprised TVR sell any STD dampers at all! Thanks Joospeed. My "installer" of AVOs, Std springs and poly bushes, left AVOs on 15 clicks. Presume I should back off the rear to 5/8-clicks to allow more compliency (softness?) on bump/rebound that I currently get at 15?? Must we have front & rear at same settings?? Presume we could have a diff of 5-clicks (or so ??) as Chimaera is not 50/50 on weight distribution ?? Hoping you'll reply - Tks Trev McM

what you need is the mionimum damping required the get the job done, it's normal to have the damping at different rates front and rear, on a TVR you'd want the rear significantly softer than the front to generate traction and give you a decent ride (you're sat over the rear wheels almost in the chim so you feel every shock through the suspension if it's rock solid).

[joospeed]

.Mark said:

joospeed said: Getting the AVOS to work is all about the springing, they're supposed to be valved for the std springs, and will work like that , but they're softer in bump than the std dampers until you start winding the adjuster up, then you end up with a car that's good in bump but has too much rebound, the back end jacks down onto the higher spring rate of the dual-wound springs and you end up going from just enough bump from the damper and spring to too much once the spring gets coil bound on it's soft rate. Dual rate springs are best avoided if you can, fit good single rate springs and adjust the damping from that. Reckon on something around 250-275 on the rea of an otherwise std chimaera. Best bet is to buy a proven spring and damper package that's known to work. Current AVOS are streets ahead of the old versions that used to break S rear arms and are a very good introduction to budget adjustable suspension, or those people wanting the replace tvr dampers without breaking the bank, they have a two year guarantee too , so on replacement grounds it's a no-brainer really, I'm surprised TVR sell any STD dampers at all! And once more in English Joolz??? Presumably you fitted good single rate springs to mine?

Hi.
there's essentially two things going on with dampers:
bump - this is the damper action as the wheel moves up relative to the car. the stiffness is controlled by the rate of the spring plus the resisteance of the damper controlled by it's design, thickness of the oil used and how far you wind the adjuster in (the bit you control)
rebound - this is the action of the wheel as it moves down relative to the car, the spring is extending releasing it's stored energy that you gave it when it compressed in bump. the damper's job in rebound is to convert that energy into heat so the car doesn't keep bouncing down the road.
Now if the rebound effect of the damper is too great, the spring may not be strong enough to move the damper rod so the car doesn't return to it's original ride height after a bump .. this is called jacking down (think of the opposite of jacking up the vehicle where the ride hieght increases). On std chims you've got a dual rate spring, it has coils which are wound closer together at one end of the spring than the other. as the spring compresses (car going into bump siutation) the close coils touch each other, called coil binding, this effectively shortens the working length of the spring so making it stiffer, hence you get a coil with a rising spring rate.
Unfortunately you don't have a damper with a rising damping rate for stiffness only for damper rod speed and only in bump, so the damping on rebound that's just enough to control the full length soft spring rate is not enough to control the spring rate once it's coil binding and going stiffer, there's too much stored energy for the damper to cope with. Also if you wind the damping up to control the coil bound high rate spring that may be too much rebound damping for when the spring is on it's soft extended length, then the spring rate isns't enough to push the damper back to it's start ride height position before the next bump comes along .. the car gradually gets lower on it's ride height until the point at which the spring is permanently coiil bound onto it's higher spring rate, that gives you a harsher ride. the harsher ride is made worse because if you're winding the rebound up on most single-adjuster dampers you're also winding the bump resistance up aswell which compounds the issue.
Does tha make it any better? thought not ..
doh!

>> Edited by joospeed on Friday 26th September 09:24

[Steve_T]

No it does totally. Leads me onto wondering why TVR use a rising rate spring when the damper cannot deal with it and also what dampers can work with such springs, if they're beneficial to have on the car. Presumably the rising rate is there to give gentle resistance for the small stuff and yet still be able to cope with large forces too? Final question I see that Nitrons have two and three way adjustable units on their website, is there any benefit to using these on the road, or is it overkill?

Thanks,

Steve

>> Edited by Steve_T on Friday 26th September 10:02