13 banks gone to the wall so far - have I missed any off?
Discussion
Fortis
B&B
Wachovia
3rd largest bank of Iceland
NR
HBOS
LB
Freddie Mac
Fannie Mae
Alliance & Leicester
Those 2 mutuals which asked nationwide to take them over
Washington Mutual
Bear Sterns
Merril Lynch
AIG
IKB
Netbank
Sachsen
Hypo Real Estate
Edited to keep the list up to date.
B&B
Wachovia
3rd largest bank of Iceland
NR
HBOS
LB
Freddie Mac
Fannie Mae
Alliance & Leicester
Those 2 mutuals which asked nationwide to take them over
Washington Mutual
Bear Sterns
Merril Lynch
AIG
IKB
Netbank
Sachsen
Hypo Real Estate
Edited to keep the list up to date.
Edited by Welshbeef on Monday 29th September 14:12
esselte said:
Why would you say A+L have "gone to the wall" when the've been taken over by Santander...? Did you think Jaguar had gone to the wall when they were bought by Ford? Just want to know what your definition of "gone to the wall" is..
Because banks are too central to the eoconomy to be allowed to fail, they are 'merging' or being nationalised. A practical definition of 'gone to the wall' in the current climate is "forced to seek a bidder at any price as no longer able to trade".
esselte said:
Why would you say A+L have "gone to the wall" when the've been taken over by Santander...? Did you think Jaguar had gone to the wall when they were bought by Ford? Just want to know what your definition of "gone to the wall" is..
They were in just as bad a situation as HBOS. Gone to the wall - share price was £11 last year now its lost over 75% of its value.
Similar story with B&B.
Also one thing your forgetting here there comes a point where even if the bank/business is running fine day to day if its share price drops too low then its liabilities are more than its assets... bankrupt.
Timmy35 said:
esselte said:
Why would you say A+L have "gone to the wall" when the've been taken over by Santander...? Did you think Jaguar had gone to the wall when they were bought by Ford? Just want to know what your definition of "gone to the wall" is..
Because banks are too central to the eoconomy to be allowed to fail, they are 'merging' or being nationalised. A practical definition of 'gone to the wall' in the current climate is "forced to seek a bidder at any price as no longer able to trade".
Frederick said:
When did Alliance & Leicester go to the wall? I still bank with them!
I know there was talk of a merger with Santander but never heard anthing more so I assumed it had been called off?
The deal is going through I as a S/h will be getting Santander shares mid to late October. It will be delisted from the FTSE and will instead be on the Spainish stock exchange - well its already there Santander.I know there was talk of a merger with Santander but never heard anthing more so I assumed it had been called off?
esselte said:
Timmy35 said:
esselte said:
Why would you say A+L have "gone to the wall" when the've been taken over by Santander...? Did you think Jaguar had gone to the wall when they were bought by Ford? Just want to know what your definition of "gone to the wall" is..
Because banks are too central to the eoconomy to be allowed to fail, they are 'merging' or being nationalised. A practical definition of 'gone to the wall' in the current climate is "forced to seek a bidder at any price as no longer able to trade".
Welshbeef said:
esselte said:
Timmy35 said:
esselte said:
Why would you say A+L have "gone to the wall" when the've been taken over by Santander...? Did you think Jaguar had gone to the wall when they were bought by Ford? Just want to know what your definition of "gone to the wall" is..
Because banks are too central to the eoconomy to be allowed to fail, they are 'merging' or being nationalised. A practical definition of 'gone to the wall' in the current climate is "forced to seek a bidder at any price as no longer able to trade".
The company's perceived value is reflected in the share price. News flow, rumour etc./ if negative will push the balance of buyers/sellers towards sellers, and the shares go down. This only effects the market value of the shares.There is a situation where a falling share price can adversely effect the share price.Say the company has an overdraft from the bank. This could be dependent on the share price. I think it is called a banking covenent. If the share price falls below a certain price, the overdraft is called in, or at least not renewed. It can also happen with a mortgage on commercial property.
The price the company pays for it's debt,will increase as the SP goes down.Wen they borrow,a complex ratio is used to determine cost of borrowings.As the ratio deteriorates,the cost increases to the borrower,as risk is increased.HBOS and B&B rely on constant borrowings to service their mortgages so at risk of lower SP.
Lehman's had written off billions of loans and so their cost of borrowings kept increasing,than the SP was under attack and that further undermined their ability to finance their debts.
So debts in the markets are not fixed interest,but are variable according to complex criteria,linked to risk
The price the company pays for it's debt,will increase as the SP goes down.Wen they borrow,a complex ratio is used to determine cost of borrowings.As the ratio deteriorates,the cost increases to the borrower,as risk is increased.HBOS and B&B rely on constant borrowings to service their mortgages so at risk of lower SP.
Lehman's had written off billions of loans and so their cost of borrowings kept increasing,than the SP was under attack and that further undermined their ability to finance their debts.
So debts in the markets are not fixed interest,but are variable according to complex criteria,linked to risk
esselte said:
Welshbeef said:
esselte said:
Timmy35 said:
esselte said:
Why would you say A+L have "gone to the wall" when the've been taken over by Santander...? Did you think Jaguar had gone to the wall when they were bought by Ford? Just want to know what your definition of "gone to the wall" is..
Because banks are too central to the eoconomy to be allowed to fail, they are 'merging' or being nationalised. A practical definition of 'gone to the wall' in the current climate is "forced to seek a bidder at any price as no longer able to trade".
The latter cannot be allowed to happen. The system is still digesting the worlds biggest ever deafult....Lehmans...and there is simply not the capacity to cope with another.
[/quote]
When it is no longer viable as a business. In effect liquidation, which may me self imposed 'seek a bidder for the good parts' or external 'default'.
The latter cannot be allowed to happen. The system is still digesting the worlds biggest ever deafult....Lehmans...and there is simply not the capacity to cope with another.
[/quote]
But for me as a capitalist there are winners and losers the longer the full effects are delayed the worse it will be.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/this_week/76...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/this_week/76...
So Duncun Balentine thinks G Brown is up for the job of steering us through this nightmare yet Caan (his close friend and business partner) thinks the opposite.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/this_week/76...
So Duncun Balentine thinks G Brown is up for the job of steering us through this nightmare yet Caan (his close friend and business partner) thinks the opposite.
Mc Lovin said:
i'd like to know where this wall is, is it like the one in Jerusalem or is it more like the Great wall of China?
More like the Great Wall of China.And in the current economic climate, we will need a bigger wall by Christmas, just to accommodate all the banks that are going to go to it.
It’s worrying that for the first time (that I have heard of) the problem has spread to the Chinese economy. Ping An, the second biggest insurer in China had a 5% stake in Fortis. Its shares are now down sharply.
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