Patient confidentiality, bloody hospitals?

[Boosted LS1]

A relative of mine collapsed in a car park yesterday and was taken to hospital. She's been quite ill before so the family are concerned about her condition. We are also down on her hospital records as being next of kin.

Due to the hospital being over 100 miles away we tried to phone up for a status report or even to ask about her condition. The nurses refuse to help, saying they can't confirm who we are and to discuss anything with us would be a breach of patient confidentiality.

I feel this is just nonsense and they can't be arsed to help, merely using data protection as a shield.

My question is can anything be done about this. I'd like to make a complaint or read the nurses the riot act. My relative would want us to know if she was ok or in a serious condition.

[captainzep]

You wouldn't believe the information security paranoia going on in the NHS at the moment. Our own email apparently isn't secure enough, -I have to use a useless clonking nhs web based system for any patient data. We can't have a 'communal' laptop to give to a trainer for powerpoint, specific logon only. Compulsory training beyond the original finger wagging warning session has been imposed. It goes on and on.

The fear of another security breach is all pervading.

So go to the relevant Hospital Trust website and it should tell you how to complain. Then complain like fk. Perhaps cc your MP too.

[drfrank]

I feel your frustration and I used to work in the NHS ! They do have a duty of care and it can be sorted if you speak to the ward sister and maybe your relative could do the same.

[rex]

Confidentiality is an issue that occurs in most spheres of life nowadays. As a dentist technically we cannot even confirm appointments with a patients spouse/partner unless permission is given by the patient. A breach of confidentiality for a member of staff in a medical situation is a disiplinary offence. Do you really want to tear a strip of a nurse for following guidelines. Would you prefer that she risks her career for your benifit? She is not trying to be akward but is doing her job.

A letter to the complaints depatrment about their protocols would be ideal but to shoot the messenger is poor form.

Edited by rex on Wednesday 1st October 21:02

[spikeyhead]

I once got drunk . Very drunk, in fact very very very drunk.

Actually I've done that on numerous occasions but I've only once tried to cycle four miles home after getting too drunk to stand up.

I came too in hospital and was told I'd got a suspected fractured skull, a broken collar bone and a broken finger. My parents were abroad on holiday so a mate was informed that I was in there in case of further emergency.

I was informed the following morning that my wife had phoned earlier to see how I was getting on.

Now I knew I'd forgotten quite a lot about the previous day.

I knew that I had a suspected fractured skull but wouldn't know for sure until a consultant had looked further at the x-ray.

I wasn't scared at all about the broken collar bone, potential brain bleeding.

I was very worried about the possibly of accidentally getting married after far too many beers. I've done many many stupid things in my life but that would have trumped them all.

It later transpired that my mates wife, a nurse who knew the score, had phoned up, stated that she was my wife then they updated her on my condition. I was very very relieved when I found out what had happened.

[piquet]

sorry they're right and it's an important part of medical care, they have no proof who you are and to tell you details would be a breech of medical confidentiality, it's there to protect us all.

if she was famous and the press phoned up and were given details, you'd be complaining, If she had an employer who phoned up was told all the details and then they made decisions about her employment based on this or made it public, you'd go crazy.

even if you are her next of kin, if she doesn't want you to know, you don;t know, what if it's something embarrassing

confidentiality is there to protect the patient, it's a shield we all have have, it's part of the hippocratic oath

"What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about."

Yes you can complain and the nhs will spend your money investigating it and writing you a letter say how sorry they were you didn't like it, but that the nurse was right

They will tell you she's there and they will tell you generally how's she's doing, but it ends there, if you are her next of kin and it's so important to you, go see her, or if you explain how far away you are ask the nurse if it's worth or useful for you to come and see her

[Boosted LS1]

The point somebody is missing is that the patient would want us to know what's happening hence our details having been placed on her hospital notes when she last collapsed including our phone number. Calling us back would go a long way to proving who we are. All we'd like to know is if she needs us or will survive the next day or two not a detailed medical assessment of her condition FFS.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Wednesday 1st October 22:21

[piquet]

really? how do they know she wants you to know? Because you say she would want you to know?

she is over 18, the only person who can consent for her medical details to be given to her,is herself

pretending to be someone else is fraud

sorry it doesn't suit you, if you are the NOK why not go see her

[Boosted LS1]

piquet said:

really? how do they know she wants you to know? Because you say she would want you to know?

she is over 18, the only person who can consent for her medical details to be given to her,is herself

pretending to be someone else is fraud

sorry it doesn't suit you, if you are the NOK why not go see her

Sorry but is there something wrong with you today, who mentioned fraud and we don't want her medical details? Maybe she's to ill to ask them to contact us or express her views. She would want us to know so we can organise the running of her remote home and the feeding and cleaning of her animals etc. This is what we do everytime she's ill. As said, she is over 100 miles away and we've been struggling to find out just how unwell she actually is. One of us will have to arrange to travel there over the weekend with no idea how long we have to stay or if she'll be discharged, die or whatever. You also assume that we have transport, funds and the freedom from our own responsibilities to travel. Some relatives have none of those.

Now, a nurse could have said 'she's in a comfortable condition, the Dr's checking her in a moment'. Or, 'she's very poorly and will be staying on the ward for a few days or a week or so'. It's not that difficult is it? This obstruction and red tape helps nobody and the data protection makes some allowances for common sense to prevail. Pity more people don't apply common sense.

We did manage to ascertain that after she collapsed at the supermarket it was breathing related and we know she has fluid on the lungs and is being given oxygen.

[sunbeam_alpine]

I've had experience of this - my mother was rushed to hospital a couple of years back - and I was at that time working in Poland.

I got the information I needed by asking to speak to the ward sister, giving my mother's maiden name and date of birth as proof that I was family, then ringing back 15 minutes later to give mum time to confirm who I was, and that it was OK to give me details.

Maybe this would work for you?

Edit: I personaly think that the nurses are correct not to give information over the phone without knowing who you are.

Edited by sunbeam_alpine on Thursday 2nd October 17:46

[Boosted LS1]

^ That's a sensible approach but they don't even want to talk about it from what I can tell. Oh well, they can face the wife over the weekend.

[RobDickinson]

sunbeam_alpine said:

Edit: I personaly think that the nurses are correct not to give information over the phone without knowing who you are.

yep, prehaps with national ID cards you could have proved who you are...

[968]

Boosted LS1 said:

Now, a nurse could have said 'she's in a comfortable condition, the Dr's checking her in a moment'. Or, 'she's very poorly and will be staying on the ward for a few days or a week or so'. It's not that difficult is it? This obstruction and red tape helps nobody and the data protection makes some allowances for common sense to prevail. Pity more people don't apply common sense.

The sad thing is, I had a patient who had a very similar situation to what you're describing, and someone pretending to be a relative phoned up asking how she was, and what was happening to her. A nurse obliged. The caller was in fact a criminal that had been staking out her house, and wanted to confirm no one would be at home. When she returned home, she had been burgled, of everything. She complained to the hospital, and the nurse was suspended. Unfortunately, we live in really stty times these days.

[Boosted LS1]

^ Yes it happens but we've been to the hospital several times because this person is quite sick. No reason why they couldn't have phoned us back if they wanted to be helpful.

[Mojocvh]

Boosted LS1 said:

^ Yes it happens but we've been to the hospital several times because this person is quite sick. No reason why they couldn't have phoned us back if they wanted to be helpful.

Being helpful is not worth the "system" making them both unemployed and unemployable.

[sunbeam_alpine]

RobDickinson said:

sunbeam_alpine said:

Edit: I personaly think that the nurses are correct not to give information over the phone without knowing who you are.

yep, prehaps with national ID cards you could have proved who you are...

1. I'd need very long arms. I was in Poland, my mother was in the UK.

2. I have a national ID card.

3. If I (or the OP) was in a face-to-face situation with the nursing staff, the whole discussion point of this thread would be irrelevant.

[Boosted LS1]

Mojocvh said:

Boosted LS1 said:

^ Yes it happens but we've been to the hospital several times because this person is quite sick. No reason why they couldn't have phoned us back if they wanted to be helpful.

Being helpful is not worth the "system" making them both unemployed and unemployable.

Agreed. Thats because some of them are lazy lardarses who can't use some common sense and get off their effing backsides. It's much easier to hide behind the dpa like all the other jobsworths we seem to have these days. They didn't tell us that the father in law had mrsa either, just kept chopping away at his leg until he eventually died and all we knew was that he had a leg infection at the time. Same hospital and by the time they did call us we missed his death by some 20 minutes. He died alone because we couldn't get there fast enough due to rush hour traffic and being over 100 miles away.

The same thing could repeat itself because they tell us nothing unless they absolutely have to.

[ucb]

Boosted LS1 said:

The same thing could repeat itself because they tell us nothing unless they absolutely have to.

You have no legal right to be informed at all.
If you were previously listed as NOK, that means nothing for this admission - anything could have happened between the two parties since then.
I don't think that it is reasonable of you to go down there and have a go at the staff on duty, who may not be directly caring for your relative. The staff on the ward are stretched to breaking point most of the day, and to have someone come down and abuse them for not calling them is preposterous behaviour. They understand that you are concerned and frustrated, but be more imaginative in how or on whom you vent your spleen.

[welshbikerduck]

Boosted LS1 said:

A relative of mine collapsed in a car park yesterday and was taken to hospital. She's been quite ill before so the family are concerned about her condition. We are also down on her hospital records as being next of kin.

Due to the hospital being over 100 miles away we tried to phone up for a status report or even to ask about her condition. The nurses refuse to help, saying they can't confirm who we are and to discuss anything with us would be a breach of patient confidentiality.

I feel this is just nonsense and they can't be arsed to help, merely using data protection as a shield.

My question is can anything be done about this. I'd like to make a complaint or read the nurses the riot act. My relative would want us to know if she was ok or in a serious condition.

I had the same problem just over a year ago, my dad was put into an induced coma as he had pneumonia. The hospital was about 45 miles away and with 3 small kids and a business that can't be left i tried to call them and ask for progress report and was told the same stuff.

I told them i appreciate what they are saying but i would just like to know if there is any change either for the good or worse, no need to give me BP numbers etc. Still had the same lame excuse about data protection. So i asked them to call me and give me an update as i was down as next of kin, only for the tune to change to we don't have time to do that.

I think they are using the data protection as an excuse to not have to speak on the phone. it stinks.

[league67]

Boosted LS1 said:

Mojocvh said:

Boosted LS1 said:

^ Yes it happens but we've been to the hospital several times because this person is quite sick. No reason why they couldn't have phoned us back if they wanted to be helpful.

Being helpful is not worth the "system" making them both unemployed and unemployable.

Agreed. Thats because some of them are lazy lardarses who can't use some common sense and get off their effing backsides. It's much easier to hide behind the dpa like all the other jobsworths we seem to have these days. They didn't tell us that the father in law had mrsa either, just kept chopping away at his leg until he eventually died and all we knew was that he had a leg infection at the time. Same hospital and by the time they did call us we missed his death by some 20 minutes. He died alone because we couldn't get there fast enough due to rush hour traffic and being over 100 miles away.

The same thing could repeat itself because they tell us nothing unless they absolutely have to.

But why stop there, instead, those ungrateful doctors and nurses should all stop whatever they are doing to have a chat with you. Rush hour traffic and distance is fault of 'jobsworths' in hospitals, not yours for not making adequate arrangements? But they are useless and incompetent and just keep chopping at extremities until there is nothing left.

I'd hazard a guess that you never worked in a&e ten hours shift. Or tell parents that their only child has leukemia. Easy life, not like really stressful stuff, let me see, 'oh there is an oil leak on that engine'.

As it appears that you have an iq equal to your body temperature, you would go there and verbally abuse 'them'?