Diamonds!

[Bas Jaski]

Hey all,

while browsing the the forum i stumbled on a thread about good investments, and there was a little bit of information about diamonds.
I qoute:
[QOUTE]Similarly, what about diamonds? They are very expensive even in rough form but can be bought cheaply on India's black market in Surat or from the sellers in alleyways (5 carat stones with good clarity and colour can be bought for £100-200 I hear). With some good craftsmanship these can be turned into nice gems (again from India) and sold at a pretty penny.[/QOUTE]

I searched the thread a bit more but couldnt get further than 'a pretty penny'. So how much of 'a pretty penny' are we talking about? I'm fairly sure they would need cutting to make some money out of them, how much would that be? And after that, where are you supposed to sell them?

secondly, blood diamonds. How can you exactly guarantee to your buyer that they are not blood diamonds? Some sort of signed document, lie about the location?


I've googled a while, but a) im on a 56K connection (cant get better where i live right now) and b) couldnt find any exact numbers, just a load of information about diamonds themself.

Could anyone give me some information on all of this? I would really apreciate it. Also, if you send me an email, could you please give me a note in this thread, with my 56K connection i find it extremely difficult to get my email for some reason.

Thanks

Bas

[steveo29]

has some one been watching blood diamond :P

[dilbert]

Without wanting to sound stalinist, it's a bit like Mink and Ivory really, but perhaps worse.
I'm reluctant to say it's worse absolutely, because a Mink, or an Elephant is unlikely to turn on you, if you don't exploit it. Slaves, on the other hand, might.

Edited by dilbert on Monday 6th October 05:37

[V8mate]

The only good investment you make in diamonds is keeping 'er indoors happy. To save money I always buy them in countries with no sales tax and good, cheap labour to polish and set them. Turkey is my preference because it makes a nice holiday destination at the same time

I've never had a UK valuation come back at less than twice what I paid.

For all the reasons why diamonds are a poor investment, this page sums them up pretty well:

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/diamonds.html

[E36GUY]

5 ct diamond in good clarity colour for £100-200. No chance. That's like £12k+ on the open market once cut.

[Bas Jaski]

V8mate said:

The only good investment you make in diamonds is keeping 'er indoors happy. To save money I always buy them in countries with no sales tax and good, cheap labour to polish and set them. Turkey is my preference because it makes a nice holiday destination at the same time

I've never had a UK valuation come back at less than twice what I paid.

For all the reasons why diamonds are a poor investment, this page sums them up pretty well:

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/diamonds.html

Cheers mate, thats quite helpful.

dilbert said:

Without wanting to sound stalinist, it's a bit like Mink and Ivory really, but perhaps worse.
I'm reluctant to say it's worse absolutely, because a Mink, or an Elephant is unlikely to turn on you, if you don't exploit it. Slaves, on the other hand, might.

I understand, I have thought about that as well. I'd just like to clearify that im not pro 'blood diamonds'. I'm just looking to purchase them for a good price and sell them for and sell them for more, lol.

steve said:

has some one been watching blood diamond :P

While i've seen the movie, i've never given it a second of thought of 'Hmm, i'd like to do that!'. It's only the quote i read on this forum that interested me.

[jamesuk28]

Bas Jaski said:

Hey all,

(5 carat stones with good clarity and colour can be bought for £100-200 I hear). With some good craftsmanship these can be turned into nice gems (again from India) and sold at a pretty penny

Cubic Zircona I think, and they are all destined for Argos.

[Bas Jaski]

jamesuk28 said:

Bas Jaski said:

Hey all,

(5 carat stones with good clarity and colour can be bought for £100-200 I hear). With some good craftsmanship these can be turned into nice gems (again from India) and sold at a pretty penny

Cubic Zircona I think, and they are all destined for Argos.

that would most likely be the case i suppose

Bump for any more info on the subject...


Realisticly, what sort of return would one see if you purchase + cut 10K worth of diamonds? (im just naming a random number right now people!) excluding travel/hotel costs etc offcourse

thanks

[Bas Jaski]

Bump again, see last question

[jamesuk28]

Why don't you purchase 10K of cut diamonds and then TELL US the return you make !

Good luck.

[ingelow]

Seems there's a fair bit of interest in diamonds at the moment - this popped up on my radar recently. Not had a chance to use it yet, but the idea interests me...

http://dodaq.com/en/

(not in anyway affiliated etc.)

[ytrebil]

Interesting.

If I get my money back owned to me by EWM I want to invest it into something.

You say you don't want blood diamonds but in terms of high return profit, are you cold hearted enough?

[V8mate]

jamesuk28 said:

Why don't you purchase 10K of cut diamonds and then TELL US the return you make !

Good luck.

I reckon the OP would get about £7,750 for them. Right ball park, James?

I explained why diamonds are not a financial investment when the OP first posted. Maybe he's one of these idiots who only listens to people who tell him what a great idea his 'business ideas' are and then blames other people when it all goes PT.

FFS.

[Bas Jaski]

ingelow said:

Seems there's a fair bit of interest in diamonds at the moment - this popped up on my radar recently. Not had a chance to use it yet, but the idea interests me...

http://dodaq.com/en/

(not in anyway affiliated etc.)

Cheers mate, just registered and will check it tomorrow (its 3.30 here now and i'm getting a tad tired now, lol)

ytrebil said:

You say you don't want blood diamonds but in terms of high return profit, are you cold hearted enough?

Well im not sure im going to be making any friends with this, but we all know the stuff that happens with the blood diamonds (and no, im not a fan of it), it will continue to happen and if there are very significant profits to be made, I would lie if i said i wouldnt consider doing it. Preferbly not.


I think i misunderstood V8mate's first post. I suppose what he means with 'keeping 'er indoors happy' he means his wife/girlfriend (sorry, english isnt my first language and sometimes i'm not 100% on whats going on!). Not sure with the 2nd post of him either. Anyways, i'll have a deeper look in to it anyways.

This topic was only made to gather information and if a decent-ish living can be made of this (as a job on the side).

[Nightmare]

okay

You will find it extremely hard to make money at this as you arent in the trade.....I guess you dont know much about diamonds and therefore will likely get utterly fleeced. Popele who are preprared to deal in blood diamonds will also rip you off or kill you.
At no point think that ANYTHING relating to questionble diamond trade has been 'over media hyped' - it is usually actually worse in reality. If you want to get into this.....good luck

you MUST have a trusted cutter - cos if you dont either the DeBeers monoploy will make your stones vanish OR you will get fleeced by a cutter who will just swap in junk - and again you wont know.

Who will you sell the cut diamonds to? If at any point during this you're looking at the potential mark-up between this rough and retail then dilute it by at least 100 times.

buying rough is very cool and great fun...but please please dont think somehow it will turn into a business......

[Burba]

does anyone actually have any contacts in the business?

[Nightmare]

yes, me, lots - hence my advice

[Bas Jaski]

Nightmare said:

okay

You will find it extremely hard to make money at this as you arent in the trade.....I guess you dont know much about diamonds and therefore will likely get utterly fleeced. Popele who are preprared to deal in blood diamonds will also rip you off or kill you.
At no point think that ANYTHING relating to questionble diamond trade has been 'over media hyped' - it is usually actually worse in reality. If you want to get into this.....good luck

you MUST have a trusted cutter - cos if you dont either the DeBeers monoploy will make your stones vanish OR you will get fleeced by a cutter who will just swap in junk - and again you wont know.

Who will you sell the cut diamonds to? If at any point during this you're looking at the potential mark-up between this rough and retail then dilute it by at least 100 times.

buying rough is very cool and great fun...but please please dont think somehow it will turn into a business......

Thanks nightmare, Just the reply i've been looking for.

I dont know anything about diamonds, but i know enough from this reply to just stick with what i do now.

thanks again mate
Bas

[Schermerhorn]

E36GUY said:

5 ct diamond in good clarity colour for £100-200. No chance. That's like £12k+ on the open market once cut.

5 carats is not 5 carats. The diamond in rough form would weigh 5 carats. After cutting - to get the shape(s) you desire - you'll be lucky to end up with 60% of that carat weight. The 'cuttings' could often end up as diamond dust or used in small diamonds to make up cheap Indian jewellry.

The rest of the yield, ergo the piece that is left over then has to be cut, faceted and polished. You again will lose some carat weight.

Every rough diamond out of the ground is flawed. Where and how you cut, coupled with the craftsmanship and final finish determines the end product and the market value or 'spot' value as I like to call it.

5 carat for a rough diamond that is probably flawed, with a colour grading of H-J (if you are lucky!) on the black market in a dump like Surat is worth no more than a couple of hundred quid. Remember these people operate on the black market for a reason, are quite poor (though wealthy relatively) and £300 is 2 months salary for these people.

The problem with Surat is that the cutters are often only training in dealing with small diamonds (ie cuttings and left overs or small stones from other larger diamonds) and have no experience with larger stones. The biggest diamonds (5 carat upwards) are cut by the Hasidic Jews in Antwerp or professionals belonging to pukka 'ethical' companies.


As for blood diamonds; there's no real way to determine their origin. They could be, they might not be. A diamond is a diamond it doesn't have an 'origin' stamp on it.

My final piece of advice would be this; Forget Surat. It's a dump and the diamonds there are of low quality and low weight and you'll be lucky to break even.

If you are serious, head out to somewhere like Sierra Leone, offer £10k to local to source you a diamond and (a) hope you get something back (b) dont get your head severed off by local militamen who would try and hold you to ransom.

You won't break the Oppenheimer/De Beers monoply unless you are extremely lucky and manage to find a whopper of a rough diamond (forget cutting it), manage to smuggle it out of a country and then find a buyer.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Thursday 30th October 17:05

[jamesuk28]

Schermerhorn said:

E36GUY said:

5 ct diamond in good clarity colour for £100-200. No chance. That's like £12k+ on the open market once cut.

If you are serious, head out to somewhere like Sierra Leone, offer £10k to local to source you a diamond and (a) hope you get something back (b) dont get your head severed off by local militamen who would try and hold you to ransom.

You won't break the Oppenheimer/De Beers monoply unless you are extremely lucky and manage to find a whopper of a rough diamond (forget cutting it), manage to smuggle it out of a country and then find a buyer.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Thursday 30th October 17:05

MMMMMMMMM sounds like the plot to a good film