Outside power and lighting question.

[raf_gti]

We currently live in a 3 bed semi with a 'badminton court' shaped garden at the rear. I want to put a floodlight above the kitchen doors and also an outdoor power socket, possibly running down to the shed at bottom of garden.

I've been told by the sparky that installed the wiring in the house that I could simply take the feel for the light from one already in the kitchen, I would of course install a switch as well. For the outside power he suggested taking the feel from socket in wall, I would add an outside RCD for added safety and armoured cable running to the shed.

Obvioulsy the above is a relatively straight forward job but would it meet 17th ed regs? I must admit I was a but surprised at how simple it appears to be, I was expecting to be told to have separate feeds from main fuse box.

I am confident of doing the work myself but want to stay within the correct regs.

FYI the house was built this year.

thanks!!

[Mafioso]

Oh you meant feeds!!!

[Parrot of Doom]

Me, I'd do it from the fuse box, it isn't difficult. IIRC this is covered by part P regs also.

[raf_gti]

Mafioso said:

Oh you meant feeds!!!

WTF?!?!

feed feed feed feed feed

thats better!

[Ganglandboss]

Parrot of Doom said:

Me, I'd do it from the fuse box, it isn't difficult. IIRC this is covered by part P regs also.

Correct. Any new circuit is notifiable work. Remember though, ALL work has to comply with Part P, even if it's not notifiable. The only way to do this properly is by getting an approved domestic installer in or getting building control to pass it off.

Dave - Qualified spark.

[AlexanderV8]

Just run an extension lead out of the kitchen window, hook it round the tap one end and onto a hook on the shed the other. That way you also get a handy washing line and can take the whole lot indoors when a council official comes snooping.

HTH

[driftdaddy]

the rcd will have to be on the consumer unit to meet regs and under the 17ed the consumer uit should be a split board covered by rcd's anyway hope that helps

[raf_gti]

Ganglandboss said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Me, I'd do it from the fuse box, it isn't difficult. IIRC this is covered by part P regs also.

Correct. Any new circuit is notifiable work. Remember though, ALL work has to comply with Part P, even if it's not notifiable. The only way to do this properly is by getting an approved domestic installer in or getting building control to pass it off.

Dave - Qualified spark.

My intention was to do the work as per regulations then have it signed off afterwards, is this possible or does the work itself have to be done by an approved installer?

I thought what the spark told me was a bit iffy, obviously it can be done that way but is 'in-correct'

Ah well, cheers lads.

[Ganglandboss]

raf_gti said:

Ganglandboss said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Me, I'd do it from the fuse box, it isn't difficult. IIRC this is covered by part P regs also.

Correct. Any new circuit is notifiable work. Remember though, ALL work has to comply with Part P, even if it's not notifiable. The only way to do this properly is by getting an approved domestic installer in or getting building control to pass it off.

Dave - Qualified spark.

My intention was to do the work as per regulations then have it signed off afterwards, is this possible or does the work itself have to be done by an approved installer?

I thought what the spark told me was a bit iffy, obviously it can be done that way but is 'in-correct'

Ah well, cheers lads.

An approved installer can only certify his own work. If you wish to do the work yourself, you have to notify building control. They will charge you for the privilage and will want to inspect the cable runs before you make good any plaster etc. After this they will require completion certificates. This will have to be done by an approved domestic installer or you must be able to demonstrate your competance to do it yourself. By the time you've finished messing, it would probably be cheaper and more painless to get someone to do the lot. You may be able to find someone who will let you do the donkey work first to bring the cost down but any decent spark will insist on running the cables and making the connections himself.

[MonkeyHanger]

And for the 90%+ of the general public who have never heard of Part P, the other option is just as it always was. DIY if competent and rip it out if you move house.

Part P is a load of old cock.

Yours truly,

Another Qualified Spark.

[raf_gti]

Kin hell.

May as well do the 17th Ed myself!

Just out of interest, once I have done the course (which I intend to do soon anyway) what does that entitle me to? Can I then self certify or is that another level of competance?

[Meeja]

Out of interest, is there a record kept of the EXACT installation at a property?

As the OP's house is new, I would assume it has been wired in the new harmonised colours.

What would stop a competent (but not Part P registered) person from installing the outside light using new cable (harmonised colours) and to the correct standards - would the NICEIC actually know what was original, and what was installed later?

[Ganglandboss]

raf_gti said:

Kin hell.

May as well do the 17th Ed myself!

Just out of interest, once I have done the course (which I intend to do soon anyway) what does that entitle me to? Can I then self certify or is that another level of competance?

Sod all!

You need to be a member of an approved domestic installer scheme to self certify. I don't have a problem with a scheme that makes it illegal for non-competant people to work with electrics - the biggest problem with part P is it has licensed people with limited skills and made it illegal for qualified sparks to work in their own home and pushed the real cowboys further underground.

[Ganglandboss]

Meeja said:

Out of interest, is there a record kept of the EXACT installation at a property?

As the OP's house is new, I would assume it has been wired in the new harmonised colours.

What would stop a competent (but not Part P registered) person from installing the outside light using new cable (harmonised colours) and to the correct standards - would the NICEIC actually know what was original, and what was installed later?

The armoured to the shed would be a different matter though, as it would be a new circuit and not on the original test certificate.

Edited by Ganglandboss on Tuesday 7th October 21:17

[raf_gti]

Ganglandboss said:

raf_gti said:

Kin hell.

May as well do the 17th Ed myself!

Just out of interest, once I have done the course (which I intend to do soon anyway) what does that entitle me to? Can I then self certify or is that another level of competance?

Sod all!

You need to be a member of an approved domestic installer scheme to self certify. I don't have a problem with a scheme that makes it illegal for non-competant people to work with electrics - the biggest problem with part P is it has licensed people with limited skills and made it illegal for qualified sparks to work in their own home and pushed the real cowboys further underground.

What a good analogy be to see the 17th Ed is a 'theory test' and to be an installer is the equivalent of doing the 'driving test'?

Who exactly is the body that approves installations and how do they know what work has already been done?

sorry for the questions, genuinely interested.

[Orb the Impaler]

I just do all my own stuff - bks to these regs. It'll be plumbing next, just you wait. Do people think I've got money to burn or what?

I'd simply disconnect any potentially offending electrics if the house is sold - the new owner can reconnect them if they wish.

I've also got an awful lot of old coloured cable....

[Ganglandboss]

raf_gti said:

Ganglandboss said:

raf_gti said:

Kin hell.

May as well do the 17th Ed myself!

Just out of interest, once I have done the course (which I intend to do soon anyway) what does that entitle me to? Can I then self certify or is that another level of competance?

Sod all!

You need to be a member of an approved domestic installer scheme to self certify. I don't have a problem with a scheme that makes it illegal for non-competant people to work with electrics - the biggest problem with part P is it has licensed people with limited skills and made it illegal for qualified sparks to work in their own home and pushed the real cowboys further underground.

What a good analogy be to see the 17th Ed is a 'theory test' and to be an installer is the equivalent of doing the 'driving test'?

Who exactly is the body that approves installations and how do they know what work has already been done?

sorry for the questions, genuinely interested.

Not really, the 17th edition certificate is only part of a qualified spark's training and a way of bringing the old boys up to speed with the changes.

There were about six approved domestic installer schemes last time I looked, the NICEIC being the most respected.

As for knowing what's been done already, cable is now date stamped so you can identify when it was installed. If you had some of the right cable, you can get away with a minor alteration. Installing a new circuit from the consumer unit would not be possible though as the circuit would not be listed on the previous certificate.

[Meeja]

Ganglandboss said:

raf_gti said:

Ganglandboss said:

raf_gti said:

Kin hell.

May as well do the 17th Ed myself!

Just out of interest, once I have done the course (which I intend to do soon anyway) what does that entitle me to? Can I then self certify or is that another level of competance?

Sod all!

You need to be a member of an approved domestic installer scheme to self certify. I don't have a problem with a scheme that makes it illegal for non-competant people to work with electrics - the biggest problem with part P is it has licensed people with limited skills and made it illegal for qualified sparks to work in their own home and pushed the real cowboys further underground.

What a good analogy be to see the 17th Ed is a 'theory test' and to be an installer is the equivalent of doing the 'driving test'?

Who exactly is the body that approves installations and how do they know what work has already been done?

sorry for the questions, genuinely interested.

Not really, the 17th edition certificate is only part of a qualified spark's training and a way of bringing the old boys up to speed with the changes.

There were about six approved domestic installer schemes last time I looked, the NICEIC being the most respected.

As for knowing what's been done already, cable is now date stamped so you can identify when it was installed. If you had some of the right cable, you can get away with a minor alteration. Installing a new circuit from the consumer unit would not be possible though as the circuit would not be listed on the previous certificate.

But if a competent person installed - for example - a new ringmain from the consumer unit, observing all the correct standards, but did not inform council, or have the work signed off, what would happen?

If the person came to seel their property a few years down the line, could they simply employ a spark to come and perform a "safety check" on the electrical system (similar to the ten year check oncommercial installations?) and issue a certificate if all of the readings passed? (If that makes sense!)

[V6]

if you do any work and don't notify then not much will happen, no way they will prove that you did the work unless you've had a sparks in in the last couple of years (as we make notes on all circuits present).

[Ganglandboss]

Meeja said:

But if a competent person installed - for example - a new ringmain from the consumer unit, observing all the correct standards, but did not inform council, or have the work signed off, what would happen?

Chances are it will not be picked up on but say for instance there was a fire, they could be prosecuted or the insurance may refuse to pay out.

Meeja said:

If the person came to seel their property a few years down the line, could they simply employ a spark to come and perform a "safety check" on the electrical system (similar to the ten year check oncommercial installations?) and issue a certificate if all of the readings passed? (If that makes sense!)

No. For a new installation a spark will issue either a completion certificate (new installations - even just a single new circuit) or a minor works certificate (minor alterations). A safety check as you describe is a 'Periodic Inspection, Test and Report' which clearly states it is a report on an existing installation.