How much and When will the tax rises arrive?
How much and When will the tax rises arrive?
Author
Discussion

Iain H

Original Poster:

390 posts

223 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
I don't normally get involved in the economic posts as I don't understand as much as I would like to. However I have found the last few days in the Pie and the Piston very interseting, lots of different views.

Watching the news last night and looking at the figures involved in this bail out I wondered, how much are they going to have to put taxes up to help them fund this and when, given the recession will they do it. As I assume they are going to have to raise taxes in order to fund some of this.

What do those of you with far more knowledge than me think?

chris watton

22,547 posts

290 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
I am sure I heard on the news that the £500 Billion package they are offering to the banks is exactly half of the UK's total GDP! Quite scary if things do not work out!

MaxAndRuby

6,792 posts

262 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
By implementing a sort of psuedo communist state whereby all earnings will go to the government, and everyone will be on benefits. Obviously the people contributing will get a slightly better benefits cheque.

It'll be horrible, but at least we should be able to feed our kids in an organised manner.

Not quite sure what'll happen to my DB9, probably seized for recycling.

kambites

71,562 posts

251 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
chris watton said:
I am sure I heard on the news that the £500 Billion package they are offering to the banks is exactly half of the UK's total GDP! Quite scary if things do not work out!
Erm, isn't the buyout 50bn? The UK's GDP is measured it trillions.

chris watton

22,547 posts

290 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
kambites said:
chris watton said:
I am sure I heard on the news that the £500 Billion package they are offering to the banks is exactly half of the UK's total GDP! Quite scary if things do not work out!
Erm, isn't the buyout 50bn? The UK's GDP is measured it trillions.
I definitely heard that the bailout package was exactly half of what the UK is worth - I too thought it was 50 billion, but definitly heard that the whole package is worth 500 billion!

Plotloss

67,280 posts

300 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
kambites said:
chris watton said:
I am sure I heard on the news that the £500 Billion package they are offering to the banks is exactly half of the UK's total GDP! Quite scary if things do not work out!
Erm, isn't the buyout 50bn? The UK's GDP is measured it trillions.
£500Bn is available, in a total rescue package.

To put this in perspective, little old us is giving a safety net of £120Bn MORE than the Fed did. Given the we've already given surities of hundreds of billions.

Vesuvius 996

35,829 posts

301 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
Plotloss said:
kambites said:
chris watton said:
I am sure I heard on the news that the £500 Billion package they are offering to the banks is exactly half of the UK's total GDP! Quite scary if things do not work out!
Erm, isn't the buyout 50bn? The UK's GDP is measured it trillions.
£500Bn is available, in a total rescue package.

To put this in perspective, little old us is giving a safety net of £120Bn MORE than the Fed did. Given the we've already given surities of hundreds of billions.
It's £16,000 for every man, woman and child in the country.

SIXTEEN GRAND.


SirTainly

904 posts

241 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
I'd be watching out for small rises on income tax, small wins for goverment but over a large group. I would think a sm all rise on the lower band as hits everyone equally in terms of £ (although the argument is that the effect is less on those in higher band).

I'd also think VAT might be introduced on products where it's not already, and have some of the less than 17.5% items being brought up to that level.

Road pricing - it's going to be a money spinner and they need the money so that's creeping onto the table I'm sure.

New taxes on waste/rubbish too, that wins green votes (haha) and raises £££

Little Dave

882 posts

239 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
kambites said:
chris watton said:
I am sure I heard on the news that the £500 Billion package they are offering to the banks is exactly half of the UK's total GDP! Quite scary if things do not work out!
Erm, isn't the buyout 50bn? The UK's GDP is measured it trillions.
£50bn investment £200bn short term loans £250bn guarantee for bank to bank lending = £500bn

johnfm

13,751 posts

280 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
The conservatives will hopefully SLASH public spending.

Have public service workers pay the same NI as everybody else, get tehm off final salary pensions, reduce the volume of invented non-jobs, stop paying £30 a week for kids to do their A-levels, stop paying £12k/month for single mums to live in Acton - the list of possible cuts is endless.

chris watton

22,547 posts

290 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
SirTainly said:
I'd be watching out for small rises on income tax, small wins for goverment but over a large group. I would think a sm all rise on the lower band as hits everyone equally in terms of £ (although the argument is that the effect is less on those in higher band).

I'd also think VAT might be introduced on products where it's not already, and have some of the less than 17.5% items being brought up to that level.

Road pricing - it's going to be a money spinner and they need the money so that's creeping onto the table I'm sure.

New taxes on waste/rubbish too, that wins green votes (haha) and raises £££
LOL, So ultimately, the net gain for the generosity of the UK tax payer that helped bail out the banks on the governments order is more tax hikes! But Gordon said that taxpayers would gain! How?

Little Dave

882 posts

239 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
Can we not just have a higher tax banding on people working in the City.

dilbert

7,741 posts

261 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
I seem to remember from the news that the current commitment is £13K per head.
I don't know what the interest on that is, but TBH, I'm not sure where they're going to borrow it from.

Lots of people have transferred their savings into guilts/national savings.
They can print money.
They aren't up to the limit at the IMF.

That last one is a bit mysterious TBH. I could be wrong but, the borrowing limit at the IMF for the UK appears to be in the order of 10s of billions not 100s. I'm not actually sure where the IMF gets it's money from anyhow. I'd always assumed it was from the wealthy nations!!!

Presumably that leaves China.

Whatever, the way I see it, interest only on that would be about £35 (at a nominal 3%) a month, assuming that the banks themselves are actually going to recover and pay the loan amount back. That nominal £35, would be higher though because there are lots of people not working.

If the nationalised banks end up being a cash drain, then obviously the interest payments will go up, because they'll have to put yet more money in to find out that the banks are actually going to fail. That will have to be borrowed from somewhere. Finally if the banks become too much of a burden you might be talking £150-£500 a month, because the money that would have come from the banks recovery will have to paid off by us.

Edited by dilbert on Thursday 9th October 11:23

Simpo Two

92,897 posts

295 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
The plan is that when the banks recover (as they will) they will pay back the debt and so the taxpayer will be refunded by way of lower taxes.

At which point I have to say 'bwahahaa!'

If true, then the taxpayer is acting as bank for the banks.

chris_w666

22,655 posts

229 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
Vesuvius 996 said:
Plotloss said:
kambites said:
chris watton said:
I am sure I heard on the news that the £500 Billion package they are offering to the banks is exactly half of the UK's total GDP! Quite scary if things do not work out!
Erm, isn't the buyout 50bn? The UK's GDP is measured it trillions.
£500Bn is available, in a total rescue package.

To put this in perspective, little old us is giving a safety net of £120Bn MORE than the Fed did. Given the we've already given surities of hundreds of billions.
It's £16,000 for every man, woman and child in the country.

SIXTEEN GRAND.
I would much rather they gave us all the 16 grand and an option to leave now with it.

will_

6,035 posts

233 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
Little Dave said:
Can we not just have a higher tax banding on people working in the City.
Great, I'm sure my secretary would love that.

will_

6,035 posts

233 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
johnfm said:
The conservatives will hopefully SLASH public spending.
Agreed - why increase taxes when really we need to decrease spending/waste?

chris watton

22,547 posts

290 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
I suspect Browns made a calculated gamble with this, if it works out, come general election time, he’ll reduce taxation as a sweetener (For a limited period only..). If it fails, he knows he’ll be out anyway, so no skin off his nose…..

chris_w666

22,655 posts

229 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
Little Dave said:
Can we not just have a higher tax banding on people working in the City.
Would that include Newcastle, Birmingham, Sheffield, Nottingham, Sunderland, Coventry, Cardiff, Glasgow, and any other city in the UK?

Or would it be just the cleaners and coffee shop workers of central london getting arse raped by your government?

jollygreen

21,452 posts

232 months

Thursday 9th October 2008
quotequote all
will_ said:
johnfm said:
The conservatives will hopefully SLASH public spending.
Agreed - why increase taxes when really we need to decrease spending/waste?
+1

£159Bn spent on social care (benefits!) last year