Now the fun really begins.....
Discussion
From The Sunday TimesOctober 12, 2008
State to save HBOS and RBS
Government set to become biggest shareholder in top banks as Japanese weigh bid for Morgan StanleyJohn Waples and Iain Dey
THE government will tomorrow launch the biggest rescue of Britain’s high-street banks when the UK’s four biggest institutions ask for a £35 billion financial lifeline.
The unprecedented move will make the government the biggest shareholder in at least two banks. The Royal Bank of Scot-land (RBS), which has seen its market value fall to under £12 billion, is to ask the government to underwrite a £15 billion cash call. HBOS, which is Britain’s biggest provider of mortgages, is requesting up to £10 billion. Lloyds TSB, which is in the process of acquiring HBOS, and Barclays require £7 billion and £3 billion.
The scale of the fundraising could lead to trading at the London stock market being suspended. This would be to give time for the market to digest the scale of the information and its impact.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/ind...
State to save HBOS and RBS
Government set to become biggest shareholder in top banks as Japanese weigh bid for Morgan StanleyJohn Waples and Iain Dey
THE government will tomorrow launch the biggest rescue of Britain’s high-street banks when the UK’s four biggest institutions ask for a £35 billion financial lifeline.
The unprecedented move will make the government the biggest shareholder in at least two banks. The Royal Bank of Scot-land (RBS), which has seen its market value fall to under £12 billion, is to ask the government to underwrite a £15 billion cash call. HBOS, which is Britain’s biggest provider of mortgages, is requesting up to £10 billion. Lloyds TSB, which is in the process of acquiring HBOS, and Barclays require £7 billion and £3 billion.
The scale of the fundraising could lead to trading at the London stock market being suspended. This would be to give time for the market to digest the scale of the information and its impact.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/ind...
Fittster said:
Durruti said:
Government set to become biggest shareholder in top banks as Japanese weigh bid for Morgan StanleyJohn Waples and Iain Dey
Why does Japan want John Waples and Iain Dey? 
Sorry, bad formatting.
Durruti said:
Fittster said:
Durruti said:
Government set to become biggest shareholder in top banks as Japanese weigh bid for Morgan StanleyJohn Waples and Iain Dey
Why does Japan want John Waples and Iain Dey? Sorry, bad formatting.
Let the Japs have their evil way, and some more....
Hardly a big surprise ... to quote another area of the press ...
"the UK's big banks are racing to raise capital, most of which will either come directly from taxpayers or will be underwritten by taxpayers.
The reason is that the Government has said that without the injection of new capital, banks won't be able to take advantage of a £250bn state guarantee for what they borrow from other banks and financial institutions.
And without this taxpayer guarantee, banks will continue to find it immensely difficult to raise vital wholesale money from other banks and financial institutions.
So it's a no-brainer for most of them to attempt to solve their capital and liquidity problems simultaneously."
The good news is that there is more than a small chance that Sir Fred Goodwin be be leaving RBS next week, maybe even as early as Monday.
DaveL485 said:
It's all going down the pan.....
I'd say it was almost all going to 'plan'. OK, a hasty plan which was drawn up on the back of a fag packet, but our glorious leaders have rendered themselves an integral part of the housing stock and credit supply, and they will soon hold massive sway over who can get mortgages and where - or even credit cards. They will control the supply of credit, which love it or loath it the country has become to depend on - need votes in Blackburn? Turn up the loan tap for the area and create a mini (false) economic boom.
Wonderful. Next we will all have a house allocated to us based on our affiliations within the party - and the mother country. A lefties bloody dream come true - and all by accident.
/tin foil hat after a bottle of wine.
Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc, the U.K.'s third-biggest bank, is among British banks that may take losses on securities tied to this week's collapse of Icelandic banks, said a person familiar with the matter.
Losses may be as much as $677 million at Edinburgh-based RBS, said the person, who declined to be identified. The lender holds collateral against potential losses, the person said.
"It is logical that there should be linkage between the capital markets businesses of the big U.K. banks and some of the Icelandic banks," said Simon Willis, a London-based analyst at NCB Stockbrokers Ltd., who has a "hold" rating on RBS.
The government of Iceland took over three banks after they were unable to finance about $61 billion of debt, 12 times the size of the country's economy, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
RBS and Barclays are trying to sell collateral that backed up lines of credit to Icelandic banks, Dow Jones reported Thursday, citing people familiar with the matter.
RBS spokeswoman Carolyn McAdam and Barclays Capital spokesman Jon Laycock spokesmen declined to comment.
-- BLOOMBERG NEWS
http://www.connpost.com/business/ci_10692644
Losses may be as much as $677 million at Edinburgh-based RBS, said the person, who declined to be identified. The lender holds collateral against potential losses, the person said.
"It is logical that there should be linkage between the capital markets businesses of the big U.K. banks and some of the Icelandic banks," said Simon Willis, a London-based analyst at NCB Stockbrokers Ltd., who has a "hold" rating on RBS.
The government of Iceland took over three banks after they were unable to finance about $61 billion of debt, 12 times the size of the country's economy, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
RBS and Barclays are trying to sell collateral that backed up lines of credit to Icelandic banks, Dow Jones reported Thursday, citing people familiar with the matter.
RBS spokeswoman Carolyn McAdam and Barclays Capital spokesman Jon Laycock spokesmen declined to comment.
-- BLOOMBERG NEWS
http://www.connpost.com/business/ci_10692644
Maxf said:
DaveL485 said:
It's all going down the pan.....
I'd say it was almost all going to 'plan'. OK, a hasty plan which was drawn up on the back of a fag packet, but our glorious leaders have rendered themselves an integral part of the housing stock and credit supply, and they will soon hold massive sway over who can get mortgages and where - or even credit cards. They will control the supply of credit, which love it or loath it the country has become to depend on - need votes in Blackburn? Turn up the loan tap for the area and create a mini (false) economic boom.
Wonderful. Next we will all have a house allocated to us based on our affiliations within the party - and the mother country. A lefties bloody dream come true - and all by accident.
/tin foil hat after a bottle of wine.
Interesting quote from Sir Philip Green ...
"Responding to events globally, Sir Philip said there were 'some pressures in the economy' in the wake of the current financial turmoil gripping share markets across the world.
But he said business in general was currently 'not too bad', and warned: "if we keep frightening everybody and terrorising everybody it will feed on itself."
I fully agree with his last point - we are busy talking ourselves if to disaster, fuelled a 24-hour press machine that only seems to feed on dispair and bad news
"Responding to events globally, Sir Philip said there were 'some pressures in the economy' in the wake of the current financial turmoil gripping share markets across the world.
But he said business in general was currently 'not too bad', and warned: "if we keep frightening everybody and terrorising everybody it will feed on itself."
I fully agree with his last point - we are busy talking ourselves if to disaster, fuelled a 24-hour press machine that only seems to feed on dispair and bad news
steve_amv8 said:
I fully agree with his last point - we are busy talking ourselves if to disaster, fuelled a 24-hour press machine that only seems to feed on dispair and bad news
The earthquake that caused this particular tsunami has already happened. There is not much point standing on the beach looking inland pretending that if you can't see the wave then it doesn't exist.Durruti said:
steve_amv8 said:
I fully agree with his last point - we are busy talking ourselves if to disaster, fuelled a 24-hour press machine that only seems to feed on dispair and bad news
The earthquake that caused this particular tsunami has already happened. There is not much point standing on the beach looking inland pretending that if you can't see the wave then it doesn't exist.steve_amv8 said:
Durruti said:
steve_amv8 said:
I fully agree with his last point - we are busy talking ourselves if to disaster, fuelled a 24-hour press machine that only seems to feed on dispair and bad news
The earthquake that caused this particular tsunami has already happened. There is not much point standing on the beach looking inland pretending that if you can't see the wave then it doesn't exist.This is the point I don't understand.
The markets are collapsing on fears of a global recession.
The markets drive the economy. They govern the worth of global business.
The market becomes more unstable, they sell up and make it worse!
Ergo, they are the architects of their (and our!) own downfall.
If I see a Tsunami coming, I run.
This lot seem to be falling over each other to buy beachfront property, but knock it down before the wave hits!
The markets are collapsing on fears of a global recession.
The markets drive the economy. They govern the worth of global business.
The market becomes more unstable, they sell up and make it worse!
Ergo, they are the architects of their (and our!) own downfall.
If I see a Tsunami coming, I run.
This lot seem to be falling over each other to buy beachfront property, but knock it down before the wave hits!
nelly1 said:
This is the point I don't understand.
The markets are collapsing on fears of a global recession.
The markets drive the economy. They govern the worth of global business.
The market becomes more unstable, they sell up and make it worse!
Ergo, they are the architects of their (and our!) own downfall.
If I see a Tsunami coming, I run.
This lot seem to be falling over each other to buy beachfront property, but knock it down before the wave hits!
This is a mother of a wave - no one has any idea how to best defend against it, which is why you're seeing various different approaches around the world. But the truth is we are in completely uncharted territory here and nobody knows what happens next. Governments can throw as much money as they can muster at this and it still might not work. But they have to be seen to be trying because if they sat back and said "whoops- that's us fThe markets are collapsing on fears of a global recession.
The markets drive the economy. They govern the worth of global business.
The market becomes more unstable, they sell up and make it worse!
Ergo, they are the architects of their (and our!) own downfall.
If I see a Tsunami coming, I run.
This lot seem to be falling over each other to buy beachfront property, but knock it down before the wave hits!
ked" then I suggest the streets would get pretty lively pretty quickly. Ultimately, it may be a philisophical issue. If, globally, we were all to say sod it, lets rewind all clocks back to zero and start again, it might be the best solution. Lose the current banking system in its entirety. Of course the biggest issue is the vested interests in the current system - banks, governments, us - we all have to lose in the short term to level the playing field and start again.
Anyway, the sub-prime generated tsunami is most definately coming to a beach near you soon.
And if I'm to be found guilty of the sin of making the waves impact worse by pointing out its existance, then I can live with that. But here's food for thought - When the sub-prime wave is done, if we all survive in our current formats, the Alt-A wave is due starting 2010 and it's a magnitude bigger again. Best not tell Philip Green though, he likes to be a happy camper.
http://www.charlesarthur.com/blog/?p=1072
Not all bad news is entirley bad.
"Anthea Turner's husband Grant Bovey loses buy-to-let empire in credit crunch"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076708/An...
Is this the same Grant Bovey that was very quick to threaten to sue if anyone so much whispered a doubt about his business last year/earlier this year?
Oh dear. Nevermind.
"Anthea Turner's husband Grant Bovey loses buy-to-let empire in credit crunch"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076708/An...
Is this the same Grant Bovey that was very quick to threaten to sue if anyone so much whispered a doubt about his business last year/earlier this year?
Oh dear. Nevermind.
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