750MC RGB Championships chassis?

[The Penguin]

Hi all,

I'm sure this will open a huge can of worms but I am looking to enter the 2009/10 (depending on time constraints) 750MC RGB series and just wondered what peoples thoughts were on the chassis options?

I'm completely new to kit cars and have seen the Raw Striker, MK Indy, and Westfield within my budget(10k for the car). Would be hoping to enter class A but maybe the first year will be in Class B.

Another question is that I am thinking of buying a built car then stripping it to learn about the car and make some changes to make it race worthy. I assume to retrofit a full FIA Rollcage would not be too difficult with the car stripped.

Thanks in advance

Robin

[Jon Ison]

Without doubt my advice would be a ready prepared car rather than a "road car" and modify it yourself.

There are often RGB spec cars popping up for sale, there was recently a R1 powered class B winning car for sale coming in under your budget for example. May still be for sale btw.

RGB has its own forum, believe its bikecars, do a google.

[Jon Ison]

Here............

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/714130.htm

This sort of thing is where I would be starting, I tried the "untried" route in RGB, great fun but hard work and everything was an unknown, why take on the grief when such as the above is available ?

[The Penguin]

Thanks for pointing me to that looks good.

May have to keep my eyes peeled over the next few months and see what comes up for sale as it is now the end of the season.

[Jon Ison]

Well I know Paul and the car, I would recommend a look at the car.

[BobM]

The Penguin said:

I'm completely new to kit cars and have seen the Raw Striker, MK Indy, and Westfield within my budget(10k for the car). Would be hoping to enter class A but maybe the first year will be in Class B.

To put my comments into context I entered the fray this year as a newbie. Firstly no matter what car you enter you will have a great time and will find someone to race against. I'm in a Class A car (Busa engined Fury) but my lack of experience/ability and the lack of development of the car mean I'm running near the back of the grid.

I'd suggest however if you want to be competitive forget the options you list above. I know John Cutmore's fairly competitive in his Westfield but I think he's put a lot of effort into the car and he's a pretty committed driver.

The competitive cars over the last couple of years seem to have been those developed specifically for racing, i.e. without genuine roadgoing derivatives, although all can technically be made road legal e.g. Derek's BDN, Steve/Doug's Genesis', Gordon's Mission T5 etc. There's a theme here that they all happen to be mid engined too. I suspect it's not just about the weight distribution but the fact that going mid-engined allows use of a chain drive and lightweight LSD with huge weight and friction savings over front engined cars with propshafts and conventional Sierra/Freelander diffs.

The Penguin said:

Another question is that I am thinking of buying a built car then stripping it to learn about the car and make some changes to make it race worthy. I assume to retrofit a full FIA Rollcage would not be too difficult with the car stripped.

It sounds a laudable approach but I'd recommend against it:
1. You'll struggle to get a sensible ride height (75mm) on a road going chassis - you need different suspension mounting points.
2. You'll struggle to get the weight down - most of the race chassis are built lighter than a road chassis.
3. It'll be an expensive way to do it and will always take longer than you expect.

I have no axe to grind here as my car isn't for sale (although I do know some of the individuals involved) but I'd strongly recommend you buy one of the proven race cars that are for sale. You can still tinker to understand the car and to 'make it your own' but you'll save yourself a whole heap of money, time and grief. There are a few for sale at the moment in the RGB forum including Gordon's Class A Mission, Paul Rogers' Class B Phoenix, Ian Gray's Phoenix etc.

I'd also strongly recommend that if you haven't done so already come along to a race meeting and say hello to the guys and have a nose around the cars. They're a welcoming bunch and are all happy to talk about their cars. Quite a few of them will be at Silverstone on October 25th for the Birkett 6 hour.

HTH

Bob

[kylemrushall]

I went to Mallory yesterday....

the RGB boys were racing, they sound great. I would look at a Fury imo, they are always right up there and i dont think they would cost a fortune to run/maintain. I think if you want to be at the front you will need a mid engine beastie like a Genesis or Mission (is the ex RGB Mission still for sale)

[Josh Smith]

Hi,

I race in RGB in a Class B Phoenix.


The best car on the market has to be Paul Rogers Phoenix R1 at £8500. Its 100% reliable - it never seems to want anything at the circuit except for fuel. And the main thing....its super quick.


Josh

[BobM]

kylemrushall said:

I went to Mallory yesterday....

the RGB boys were racing, they sound great. I would look at a Fury imo, they are always right up there and i dont think they would cost a fortune to run/maintain. I think if you want to be at the front you will need a mid engine beastie like a Genesis or Mission (is the ex RGB Mission still for sale)

Lovely day at Mallory yesterday - I was there but spectating, can't race at the mo cos of eye surgery.

As a Fury builder/driver I have mixed views on Furies! The main reason I went for one over a Phoenix is it's a roomier chassis and I'm 6'5". It's otherwise very similar to the Phoenix. One issue is the bodywork - it's relatively expensive and there are some quality issues.

[The Penguin]

Thank you for all the replies I was actually at Mallory yesterday but didn't manage to speak to anyone. Was looking at Locost but decided that it wasn't for me. Prefer something a little quicker!

I obviously need to do a huge amount of research as I'm so new I haven't had chance to look around. Is there anywhere where there are more comprehensive regulations I have looked at the 750MC regs but they don't seem to give much away!

Regarding my competition History I have race Karts for 8 years but now fancy the challenge of cars as well as learning some of the famous UK tracks.

[kylemrushall]

The Penguin said:

Thank you for all the replies I was actually at Mallory yesterday but didn't manage to speak to anyone. Was looking at Locost but decided that it wasn't for me. Prefer something a little quicker!

I obviously need to do a huge amount of research as I'm so new I haven't had chance to look around. Is there anywhere where there are more comprehensive regulations I have looked at the 750MC regs but they don't seem to give much away!

Regarding my competition History I have race Karts for 8 years but now fancy the challenge of cars as well as learning some of the famous UK tracks.

good luck, bike sports look awesome as well but i think a bigger budget would be required??

[The Penguin]

kylemrushall said:

The Penguin said:

Thank you for all the replies I was actually at Mallory yesterday but didn't manage to speak to anyone. Was looking at Locost but decided that it wasn't for me. Prefer something a little quicker!

I obviously need to do a huge amount of research as I'm so new I haven't had chance to look around. Is there anywhere where there are more comprehensive regulations I have looked at the 750MC regs but they don't seem to give much away!

Regarding my competition History I have race Karts for 8 years but now fancy the challenge of cars as well as learning some of the famous UK tracks.

good luck, bike sports look awesome as well but i think a bigger budget would be required??

Yeah completely understand a bigger budget would be required Locost would be cheaper than a season in karting. I think the RGB will more than karting but not massively (excluding the purchase of the car).

[kylemrushall]

I would love to race in the RGB, what roughly would a season cost??

I could not afford it at the moment but maybe in the future.

[Furyblade_Lee]

Hi Kyle. RGB has been going for about 6 years now, and historically the most compettetive / well supported class is class C for standard 893 or 919 carbed' Fireblades. One of my best mates, Gordon Griffin who was last years Class A champ, decided to take a sabbatical this year as there were only a few entrants for class A, and class B also is sometimes a bit thin. The majority of class C cars are Fury Fireblades, and they can be had for between £5K and £10K for used RGB class C examples. Simple to work on, well proven and reliable, with lots of support available. You are still looking at around £5K a year to enter all the rounds realistically including some testing and consumables, and thats without breaking it. No motor racing is cheap! I would not bother with a Westfield / Caterham or Striker in that class (Phoenix excepted) as you will always be up againt aerodynamics at the fast tracks. You are not going all soft and girlie bike engined on us all are you??? ;-)

Locost racing is theoretically great, the racing is like cheap(er) Caterham racing. But be aware that you will probobly need an engine rebuild every year, which even though it is just a blueprinted 1300GT crossflow will probobly cost you £2K. That is one of the biggest downsides, and if you do not get the best engine available you may as well not turn up in regards to winning. It is that close, which is part of the appeal. And remember, all Locost chassis are equal, but some are more equal than others.... In contrast many RGB racers have pulled a boggo blade engine from a crashed bike and had 2 years trouble free use and abuse from engine and box. Replacements are less than a grand.

If you are serious about RGB than have a look at the Class B R1 Phoenix in the classifieds. That apparently is a bit of a tool and fast as f*** in the right hands, capable of wins. Its about £8K.

[gixermark]

RGB is a great series - one of the biggest attractions has to be the std engines...

Class C is the largest and probably the most competitive.. I'd be biased as i'm selling a class C Striker, th ebest thing to do is look at a few of the cars and see what suits/interests you... not everyone likes the seven's - some woudl have nothing else.. look at past lap times etc.. I personally don't think there is much if anything to be gained by a fury over a seven with a blade as you simply don;t get to a fast enough speed for aero to relaly take effect - but like i say others will disagree - and i am biased.

whatever you do - if you join the RGN paddock i doubt you'd regret it - they have great support available from AB performance at all the roudns too whcih is simply invaluable..

Good luck in your search :-)

[BoRED S2upid]

Jon Ison said:

Here............

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/714130.htm

This sort of thing is where I would be starting, I tried the "untried" route in RGB, great fun but hard work and everything was an unknown, why take on the grief when such as the above is available ?

Thats a bargain for an entry level race car.

[kylemrushall]

Furyblade_Lee said:

Hi Kyle. RGB has been going for about 6 years now, and historically the most compettetive / well supported class is class C for standard 893 or 919 carbed' Fireblades. One of my best mates, Gordon Griffin who was last years Class A champ, decided to take a sabbatical this year as there were only a few entrants for class A, and class B also is sometimes a bit thin. The majority of class C cars are Fury Fireblades, and they can be had for between £5K and £10K for used RGB class C examples. Simple to work on, well proven and reliable, with lots of support available. You are still looking at around £5K a year to enter all the rounds realistically including some testing and consumables, and thats without breaking it. No motor racing is cheap! I would not bother with a Westfield / Caterham or Striker in that class (Phoenix excepted) as you will always be up againt aerodynamics at the fast tracks. You are not going all soft and girlie bike engined on us all are you??? ;-)

Locost racing is theoretically great, the racing is like cheap(er) Caterham racing. But be aware that you will probobly need an engine rebuild every year, which even though it is just a blueprinted 1300GT crossflow will probobly cost you £2K. That is one of the biggest downsides, and if you do not get the best engine available you may as well not turn up in regards to winning. It is that close, which is part of the appeal. And remember, all Locost chassis are equal, but some are more equal than others.... In contrast many RGB racers have pulled a boggo blade engine from a crashed bike and had 2 years trouble free use and abuse from engine and box. Replacements are less than a grand.

If you are serious about RGB than have a look at the Class B R1 Phoenix in the classifieds. That apparently is a bit of a tool and fast as f*** in the right hands, capable of wins. Its about £8K.

Hi Lee

I love the RGB, the noise is awesome!!

The Fury R1 on PH looks a lovely bit of kit!! I dont think even if i had Gordon's Mission i would be anywhere but at the back of the grid.

No im not going all girlie you cheeky bugger, i would not enjoy driving a BEC on the road but i think on the track they are in their element.

I think you have to be a bit of a nutter to race anything but the locost racers are mega competitive!!

I think a good plan would be a season trackdaying before making the leap?? I have only been in a Fireblade Striker and to be honest i did not see the appeal but on the track i think it would make sense!!

[crofty1984]

Hi, You'll love racing RGB if you take it up. I only stopped because I had to move to Italy with work. I know I'm not allowed to link to my own advert, so I won't but my car's for sale on here (The pic's in my profile) if you want a look at it. For those that know, it's Derek Jones's old car.

To those that are racers, how did the season go? I tried to post a "Thankyou" message on the RGB forum, but it wouldn't work for me. So while I've got the chance I'd like to say a big thankyou for making me feel welcome, and all your advice on racing that you gave me on the 3/4 races I had. I really appreciated it, but circumstances dictated I had to stop. I just didn't want you to think you'd gone out of your way to help a new racer, and I'd just buggered off into the night without even looking back.

Sorry, for the thread Hijack. Back on topic: I'd recommend buying an already race prepped car like I did. And definetely racing with these guys.

[Furyblade_Lee]

Kyle , I would definately advise a year, or certainly several trackdays before a race. In the same way I advised my mates to do Brands a few times before they crazily all went off to the 'Ring. They did not take my advice and soon relised it is not like the computer game....

Private lessons with a race instructor are good too, I have had several days at Brands one-on-one and you take whole seconds off your times, she had me lapping in my Furyblade quick enough to put me on the middle of the Class C qualifying grid! All with my comfy leather seats!

If you prepare yourself, you can a) see if you actuaslly like it, b) see if you are quick enough, and C) people forget that 300+ bhp-per-ton with NO driving aids is actually quite a handful, and barreling into Paddock 3-a-brest at the first corner will be quite frightening!

I will let you know when me and Whindle get out on track next and you can come along.

[BobM]

kylemrushall said:

The Fury R1 on PH looks a lovely bit of kit!! I dont think even if i had Gordon's Mission i would be anywhere but at the back of the grid.

I think Paul's R1 Phoenix is a steal at that price, if you want to get into RGB you simply can't go wrong there. It has a few minor battle scars but once you've been out there with up to 30 cars on the grid you stop being precious and accept they all end up like that

kylemrushall said:

I think a good plan would be a season trackdaying before making the leap??

It would but don't delude yourself that it'll prepare you for racing! I was a fairly experienced trackday driver (Evo, Megablade and my Fury) but my first test session (Anglesey) was still my scariest experience on 4 wheels. Think fastest you've been before on a trackday and add 10%. Then add in the proximity of the other cars. You think you're going as fast as you can without binning it, you've chosen your turn in point and halfway between turn in and apex someone's made a lunge up the inside and locks his brakes ... You get used to it quite quickly though and I can honestly say it's the most fun I've had with my clothes on