Thermal coatings for engines

[linesplice]

Has anyone tried using coatings on their engine assembly or on other parts of their Noble? I'm interested in having a motor assembled with coated cylinders, pistons, valves, crank, etc. Does anyone have any experience with these coatings ((1) thermal barriers, (2) thermal dispersants, (3) dry film lubricants)? Will they last just a few miles or the life of the engine? Thoughts?

[Biggriff]

Have used some on exhaust and headers and on pistons. Cant remember whos at the moment.

[F.C.]

Slightly different application but, I have recently stripped a friends GSXR 1100 motor down for a re-build after 85000 miles of regular use (he doesn't spare the horses either)only to find that apart from a new camchain and piston ring set nothing else needs doing!!
camshafts are perfect and bottom end journals are also (though these are going to be replaced as the engine is apart anyway.
We have come to the conclusion that regular oil changes and the use of a friction reducer has done a great job.
Oil was changed every 3000 miles(he works for an oil company so it's cheap!)
and he says it's had three "doses" of friction reducer over that time.
one time he used "Activ8" and the others he thinks "slick50" (I kid you not).
According to my friend a lot of oil available now isn't what it used to be as they used to put additives in for friction reduction that they can't use now due to emmission regs.
F.C.
ETS
Done a little homework and found this out;
ALL major oil companies have now removed friction modifiers from all MINERAL based oils.
Mandated by goverments world wide...zinc & other phosphates / friction reducers have been removed from ALL SM rated ( street legal ) oils, it seems these additives attack the engines catalytic conveters.

It would seem my mates engines condition is down to frequent changes of oil rather than the additive (he was using semi-synthetic).

Edited by F.C. on Monday 13th October 13:47

[art411y]

ive heard so many bad things about slick 50 that the last time i used it was several years ago on a mk2 golf gti.it had then 150,000 miles on it.last year the guy who bought it off me decided to strip the engine as it had clocked up 250,000.i looked at all the internals spread out on the floor and to be honest there was no reason why it could be but back together and driven for another 250,000 miles.i always used slick 50 until other people put me off from using it.can someone in the know please tell me 100percent why i should,nt use it

[Mike Tuckwood]

art411y said:

can someone in the know please tell me 100percent why i should,nt use it

Have a look Here http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?s... In essence it takes the expression "snake oil" to a different level!
Anyone who doesn't fancy reading and interpreting what's going on, post back in here and I'll summarise it.


Mike.

Edited by Mike Tuckwood on Monday 13th October 12:26

[art411y]

Mike Tuckwood said:

art411y said:

can someone in the know please tell me 100percent why i should,nt use it

Have a look Here http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?s... In essence it takes the expression "snake oil" to a different level!
Anyone who doesn't fancy reading and interpreting what's going on, post back in here and I'll summarise it.


Mike.

Edited by Mike Tuckwood on Monday 13th October 12:26

thanks for this .i have told my friend that it was down to oil changes not the slick 50 thats made the engine so good.will endeavour to convince himm with the ammo above

[Jenx]

I've changed my oil every 3000 from new so this post makes me very happy

[linesplice]

My question was really regarding dry film lubricants applied to piston skirts, undersides of pistons, bearings, camshafts, etc, or coatings to the inside of combustion chambers, exhaust valves, and piston tops to contain heat in the chamber, and to the inside and outside of headers and exhaust systems to help reduce the heat in the engine bay, and for coatings to help increase the heat transfer applied to intercoolers, oil coolers, transmission coolers, gear boxes, differential boxes, brake calipers, etc.

Edited by linesplice on Monday 13th October 18:19

[daddysumo]

I've seen development engines built with the piston skirts coated with teflon and after a 'life'run on the dyno the bore / skirt wear did seem to be reduced especially on the thrust side but this might hace been due to offsetting the pin. the teflon was worn through though.

Steve

[Mike Tuckwood]

linesplice said:

My question was really regarding dry film lubricants applied to piston skirts, undersides of pistons, bearings, camshafts, etc, or coatings to the inside of combustion chambers, exhaust valves, and piston tops to contain heat in the chamber, and to the inside and outside of headers and exhaust systems to help reduce the heat in the engine bay, and for coatings to help increase the heat transfer applied to intercoolers, oil coolers, transmission coolers, gear boxes, differential boxes, brake calipers, etc.

Getting good performance in a Turbocharged car relies very heavily on good thermal management.

From the look of it, you're actually considering several issues at once, friction reducers (piston skirts) and thermal barriers, (piston crowns).

Each of these subjects have their own set of complex issues and you would be better discussing them with a/your pro engine builders.
They need to be considered in balls out applications mainly, Piston crowns have tolerances t allow for heat expansion and need to be designed for application.

Cylinder bore friction reducers need to be applied onto particular types (and grades) of material, then you need to use the correct type of suitable pistons Etc. We would be unlikely to recommend a majority of the internal engine treatments except in extreme performance and or competition applications.

As for heat treating on general under bonnet parts, use exhaust wrap on headers and pre/post exhaust pipes. Contrary to popular belief that this is to reduce under bonnet temps; while it is a welcome side effect, the primarly reason for lagging exhaust pipes (in particular) is to help spool, hot gasses flow easier and generate less EGBP within the system, less strain/load means less heat generated generally.

This has knock on effects all the way back through the system. Fit good Turbo jackets as well, this is also a notable help in aiding spool. There are some very good material coatings available for diret appliction, but they're "rather expensive" as a rule and don't necessarily provide improvements that could be classed a cost efficient.


Mike.

Edited by Mike Tuckwood on Tuesday 14th October 00:50

[Mike Tuckwood]

art411y said:

thanks for this .i have told my friend that it was down to oil changes not the slick 50 thats made the engine so good.will endeavour to convince himm with the ammo above

DuPont tried and failed (that's another story) to stop the likes of slick 50 from claiming Teflon (PTFE) could do what was being claimed and refused to supply PTFE to them. The courts told them that they had to prove that it COULDN'T do what the friction modifying agent sellers were claiming (which they couldn't) so they were compelled to carry on supplying to them.


Crazy huh.


Mike.