Administrators
Discussion
LadyHayles said:
LOL - I can't really comment as I do work in insolvency......but do you expect us to do all the work that's required for free?
But in all seriousness - any questions regarding the report or the situation drop me a PM.
Thanks LadyHales. But in all seriousness - any questions regarding the report or the situation drop me a PM.
Edited by LadyHayles on Thursday 16th October 13:51
I don't expect them to do it for free, it just makes me chuckle that when the company was solvent they moaned about our day rate which was far less than that. I wish there was an emoticon for a wry smile!
Oh it can be quite fun for them though, especially if they are appointed for a business they have no idea how to run and ignore the advice of those who are running the company (as opposed to the money men who stripped all the equity out leaving it in the position where it had to go into administration).
They believed that they would make a buck or two out of one company and are now looking at a very large bill that can’t be paid because they were robbed blind, after going against advice. When they were finally able to sell the company it was for far, far less than they thought they would be getting, mainly due to them not realising the value in some of the assets they had sold for peanuts.
They believed that they would make a buck or two out of one company and are now looking at a very large bill that can’t be paid because they were robbed blind, after going against advice. When they were finally able to sell the company it was for far, far less than they thought they would be getting, mainly due to them not realising the value in some of the assets they had sold for peanuts.
Edited by rude-boy on Thursday 16th October 23:53
LadyHales & Rude-Boy'
Currently embroiled with a group of administrators (of a company that entered admin in the Northampton area) who can't/won't pay their bill in full! Bad debts during admin period £200K!! Company in admin sold for peanuts!?! There's lots more.
Administrators name begins V***** You wouldn't Know them would you?
Currently embroiled with a group of administrators (of a company that entered admin in the Northampton area) who can't/won't pay their bill in full! Bad debts during admin period £200K!! Company in admin sold for peanuts!?! There's lots more.
Administrators name begins V***** You wouldn't Know them would you?
I had several companies go bust owing us money and in every single case the administrators fees exactly matched the retrievable liquid assets.
I used to have to sign forms allowing the liquidators x y or z percentage. It was a complete fix they knew the incoming capital and just set the rate to match but made vaque promises that 'you should see something'
No disrespect Lady Hayes but you are one step down from estate agents in my book.
Assets were sold at peppercorn fees to ex directors of the failed companies who then used them to start up again.
I wouldn't piss on administrators if they were on fire.
One easy stroke of a pen and thats the theft completed . The hard work and sweat and worry put in by the likes of the creditors mean zilch. The Government should regulate but don't because the administrators make sure the tax man is sorted first before they pig out.
I used to have to sign forms allowing the liquidators x y or z percentage. It was a complete fix they knew the incoming capital and just set the rate to match but made vaque promises that 'you should see something'
No disrespect Lady Hayes but you are one step down from estate agents in my book.
Assets were sold at peppercorn fees to ex directors of the failed companies who then used them to start up again.
I wouldn't piss on administrators if they were on fire.
One easy stroke of a pen and thats the theft completed . The hard work and sweat and worry put in by the likes of the creditors mean zilch. The Government should regulate but don't because the administrators make sure the tax man is sorted first before they pig out.
Unfortunately in some aspects of my job it is really hard to polish a turd - i.e. the company is rubbish, the assets are worth square root of nothing and the directors are complete numpties. The only way we can raise any funds is to sell what there is and its usually back to the directors.
A lot of the money has to go on general expenses, we have to advertise practically everything we do, we have to instruct solicitors to validate loads of documents and we have to employ agents to value the assets and confirm that we are selling them at a fair price.
I know that its easy to pick fault with what we do but we are VERY heavily regulated and we have to sell assets at what they are valued for or at least the closest offer otherwise it can mean heavy fines and possible loss of licence for the insolvency pracitioner involved. Also with the comments in respect to the fact that the Government don't regulate us - they are the ones that write the law - I have an EXTREMELY thick book on my desk called The Insolvency Act and we have to abide by what that says. Also the "tax man" no longer gets paid first - the statutes were recently rewritten to abolish the preferential status of Inland Revenue and Customs & Excise and it is now only employees who have preferential status.
A few years back the DTI used to be quite proactive in taking action against directors of companies and nowadays they don't seem to care unless there is huge fraud occuring which just leaves them free to keep starting up businesses which is a major annoyance to their creditors. Trust me, its also annoying to me as I tend to spend hours dredging through records finding evidence of issues that they are not fit to be directors and the DTI take little notice.
There are firms out there that do charge extortionate fees and do very little work for their return and also do substandard work. These are the firms that tend to end up with fines from our governing bodies and I have known of incidents where insolvency practitioners have lost their licence.
Its easy to say that I'm "one step down from an estate agent" but thats only due to your experience of certain situations. Can quite honestly say that I have recently dealt with cases where I have been able to obtain full repayment to the Bank and the general creditors and also cases where we have launched successful criminal and civil proceedings against the directors for wrongful trading, fraud, etc.
Unfortunately, its not an easy job but someone has to do it. For everyone that has a bad experience and phones me complaining there is usually another creditor ringing me to thank me for helping them.
A lot of the money has to go on general expenses, we have to advertise practically everything we do, we have to instruct solicitors to validate loads of documents and we have to employ agents to value the assets and confirm that we are selling them at a fair price.
I know that its easy to pick fault with what we do but we are VERY heavily regulated and we have to sell assets at what they are valued for or at least the closest offer otherwise it can mean heavy fines and possible loss of licence for the insolvency pracitioner involved. Also with the comments in respect to the fact that the Government don't regulate us - they are the ones that write the law - I have an EXTREMELY thick book on my desk called The Insolvency Act and we have to abide by what that says. Also the "tax man" no longer gets paid first - the statutes were recently rewritten to abolish the preferential status of Inland Revenue and Customs & Excise and it is now only employees who have preferential status.
A few years back the DTI used to be quite proactive in taking action against directors of companies and nowadays they don't seem to care unless there is huge fraud occuring which just leaves them free to keep starting up businesses which is a major annoyance to their creditors. Trust me, its also annoying to me as I tend to spend hours dredging through records finding evidence of issues that they are not fit to be directors and the DTI take little notice.
There are firms out there that do charge extortionate fees and do very little work for their return and also do substandard work. These are the firms that tend to end up with fines from our governing bodies and I have known of incidents where insolvency practitioners have lost their licence.
Its easy to say that I'm "one step down from an estate agent" but thats only due to your experience of certain situations. Can quite honestly say that I have recently dealt with cases where I have been able to obtain full repayment to the Bank and the general creditors and also cases where we have launched successful criminal and civil proceedings against the directors for wrongful trading, fraud, etc.
Unfortunately, its not an easy job but someone has to do it. For everyone that has a bad experience and phones me complaining there is usually another creditor ringing me to thank me for helping them.
Edited by LadyHayles on Thursday 16th October 23:30
Edited by LadyHayles on Thursday 16th October 23:34
mark69sheer said:
I had several companies go bust owing us money and in every single case the administrators fees exactly matched the retrievable liquid assets.
I used to have to sign forms allowing the liquidators x y or z percentage. It was a complete fix they knew the incoming capital and just set the rate to match but made vaque promises that 'you should see something'
No disrespect Lady Hayes but you are one step down from estate agents in my book.
Assets were sold at peppercorn fees to ex directors of the failed companies who then used them to start up again.
I wouldn't piss on administrators if they were on fire.
One easy stroke of a pen and thats the theft completed . The hard work and sweat and worry put in by the likes of the creditors mean zilch. The Government should regulate but don't because the administrators make sure the tax man is sorted first before they pig out.
Ouch. Looks like you had a particularly nasty experience. Hope the venting helped although in what you are saying the problem really lies with the governments lack of necesity to regulate, and not the administrators just doing what the law allows. One could argue the same over wheelclampers although in that example I am not sure that regulation has made any difference at all.I used to have to sign forms allowing the liquidators x y or z percentage. It was a complete fix they knew the incoming capital and just set the rate to match but made vaque promises that 'you should see something'
No disrespect Lady Hayes but you are one step down from estate agents in my book.
Assets were sold at peppercorn fees to ex directors of the failed companies who then used them to start up again.
I wouldn't piss on administrators if they were on fire.
One easy stroke of a pen and thats the theft completed . The hard work and sweat and worry put in by the likes of the creditors mean zilch. The Government should regulate but don't because the administrators make sure the tax man is sorted first before they pig out.
Its not the government who regulate us as such - they write the law which we have to follow. Each insolvency practitioner is licenced by either ICAEW or IPA etc and it is those governing bodies who regulate us. Regulation includes coming to the offices and going through all our files and picking fault with the slightest of things.
I always feel bad when I hear of someone having a bad experience of insolvency practitioners because we are meant to be acting on behalf of the creditors. Unfortunately, as with many professions some care more about the fees they can take at the end of the job rather than actually working to achieve something for all involved. I try, where I can, to achieve the latter.
I always feel bad when I hear of someone having a bad experience of insolvency practitioners because we are meant to be acting on behalf of the creditors. Unfortunately, as with many professions some care more about the fees they can take at the end of the job rather than actually working to achieve something for all involved. I try, where I can, to achieve the latter.
LadyHayles said:
Unfortunately, its not an easy job but someone has to do it. For everyone that has a bad experience and phones me complaining there is usually another creditor ringing me to thank me for helping them.
You will always be the baddie no mater which way you turn unless you can sell the company to someone who wants to keep all the staff and can get enough money in in the meantime to pay all the debts and your fees. Turning a company round like that in the 3 month window that it would ideally be done in is next to impossible as if it were that profitable guess what? There wouldn't be an administrationOne company went bust owing me 125k . The truth is that company was run by an idiot. Two directors were at loggerheads. The production director and the sales director. The chairman couldn't let the situation go on any further it had got as far as the wives and personal relationships.He decided one had to go and he kicked out the production director. The sales director was then the day to day controller of the company. Orders went through the roof and we became very very busy supplying them.
Then they went bang. The sales director could sell ok , but only on price and having no production experiemce he had been selling at less than they cost to make. We of course had been very busy trying to keep up with this magical demand and had no idea the bubble was going to burst as we were still getting paid promptly per terms.
Tha galling part was not just basic sums not being done but when the liquidators were appointed they carved everything up for the failed directors. Ignored demands in creditors meetings and sold the copyright on designs to the idiot director for a hundred and fifty quid!!!! This design was selling nine hundred units a week. The buildings were never sold on the open market either.
Another liquidation and I was owed 60k. The liquidators came in and said there was nothing to be had. Not much , three months before the firm went pop the chairman bought himself a Carrera 2. It was still in his garage at home three months after the firm went bust. So much for due dilligence by the liquidators.He also carried on trading under a different name from the same premises. One day all his staff were fired within a week they were all working again and I was 60k poorer.
There's more, like the company that decided to close. The Balance sheet showed enough reserves to pay off all the creditors. The director had decided to retire and the company finances were healthy.
The liquidators came in and suddenly their bill matched the cash reserves and from a situation where the company was perfectly able to meet its creditors we got zilch out of 17k.
So liquidators to me are simply vultures with the consciences of hyenas.
You won't get me backtracking on this one.
Then they went bang. The sales director could sell ok , but only on price and having no production experiemce he had been selling at less than they cost to make. We of course had been very busy trying to keep up with this magical demand and had no idea the bubble was going to burst as we were still getting paid promptly per terms.
Tha galling part was not just basic sums not being done but when the liquidators were appointed they carved everything up for the failed directors. Ignored demands in creditors meetings and sold the copyright on designs to the idiot director for a hundred and fifty quid!!!! This design was selling nine hundred units a week. The buildings were never sold on the open market either.
Another liquidation and I was owed 60k. The liquidators came in and said there was nothing to be had. Not much , three months before the firm went pop the chairman bought himself a Carrera 2. It was still in his garage at home three months after the firm went bust. So much for due dilligence by the liquidators.He also carried on trading under a different name from the same premises. One day all his staff were fired within a week they were all working again and I was 60k poorer.
There's more, like the company that decided to close. The Balance sheet showed enough reserves to pay off all the creditors. The director had decided to retire and the company finances were healthy.
The liquidators came in and suddenly their bill matched the cash reserves and from a situation where the company was perfectly able to meet its creditors we got zilch out of 17k.
So liquidators to me are simply vultures with the consciences of hyenas.
You won't get me backtracking on this one.
I posted this exact thread just over a year ago in the business forum - http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t... and most people shared our view.
I appreciate that it's probably the situation that leaves them taking a 'King Solomon' approach to splitting the companies assets.
I appreciate that it's probably the situation that leaves them taking a 'King Solomon' approach to splitting the companies assets.
.
No respect for the creditors many of whom can go bankrupt when they don't recoup any losses.
I stopped attending creditors meetings as they are just a sham. I signed forms saying I wouldn't agree to the fees but they still took them. The insolvencies take forever and like govt departments the results are quietly released up to a year later or worse.
As said one company just would down and the books showed everyone would get paid. I almost laughed when I recieved a final statement where the monies raised and the liquidators fees were exactly the same figure down to the exact pence.
parasites,leeches,
I wouldn't mind if any of the money they stole from me had been easily earned, perhaps sat on a chair shining the bottom of my trousers drinking coffee but all my money was earned very very hard. 5 o'clock starts, 7 o'clock finishes , working in all weathers , working under constant customer pressure, working through holidays , dealing with everything from buying , to production , to distribution , health and safety , H and R , the physical graft of manhandling goods. On a good day the phone wouldn't ring when I was in the toilet and I would get a crap in peace on a bad day even in the toilet I had customers ringing me to complain they needed more stuff earlier than thay had asked for it before.
No respect for the creditors many of whom can go bankrupt when they don't recoup any losses.
I stopped attending creditors meetings as they are just a sham. I signed forms saying I wouldn't agree to the fees but they still took them. The insolvencies take forever and like govt departments the results are quietly released up to a year later or worse.
As said one company just would down and the books showed everyone would get paid. I almost laughed when I recieved a final statement where the monies raised and the liquidators fees were exactly the same figure down to the exact pence.
parasites,leeches,
I wouldn't mind if any of the money they stole from me had been easily earned, perhaps sat on a chair shining the bottom of my trousers drinking coffee but all my money was earned very very hard. 5 o'clock starts, 7 o'clock finishes , working in all weathers , working under constant customer pressure, working through holidays , dealing with everything from buying , to production , to distribution , health and safety , H and R , the physical graft of manhandling goods. On a good day the phone wouldn't ring when I was in the toilet and I would get a crap in peace on a bad day even in the toilet I had customers ringing me to complain they needed more stuff earlier than thay had asked for it before.
Edited by mark69sheer on Friday 17th October 07:31
It is a shame that the majority of experiences that people have had have been bad. I personally have paid a few distributions to creditors this year alone and have a few more to prepare for - so they do happen.
You also have to look at the fact that for jobs where we do recover our fees in full there are many jobs where we never get any fees at all and are working at massive losses so please don't think its all win win for us.
There has been a few changes to the law in recent years and asset disposals are now more heavily regulated and we have to account for our actions. Unfortunately, you will still get firms of Insolvency Practitioners who just can't be bothered to put in the time, effort and research to obtain optimum asset realisations.
I must admit that on cases where I am collecting the book debt ledger and the debtors have gone insolvent I receive copies of reports from other firms and I am still shocked at the level of fees taken in some cases.
I am often called by creditors saying that they believed the company to be in X profit on their balance sheet or that the director had just bought a brand new car. Unfortunately its very easy for assets to be massively overstated in accounts and very far from their true value and for directors to brag about the car they have purchased but in reality is leased by them because of their need to brag about how well they are doing. I am currently dealing with a case where every creditor rings me up telling me the director just bought an Aston Martin - after investigation it is actually leased by him personally and it is also about to be repossessed by the finance company because he's missing payments left right and centre.
Bottom line is that the reality is usually very fair from what the creditors are told by the company - the directors are hardly going to tell their suppliers that they are in financial trouble because they'll drop them like a hot brick!
You also have to look at the fact that for jobs where we do recover our fees in full there are many jobs where we never get any fees at all and are working at massive losses so please don't think its all win win for us.
There has been a few changes to the law in recent years and asset disposals are now more heavily regulated and we have to account for our actions. Unfortunately, you will still get firms of Insolvency Practitioners who just can't be bothered to put in the time, effort and research to obtain optimum asset realisations.
I must admit that on cases where I am collecting the book debt ledger and the debtors have gone insolvent I receive copies of reports from other firms and I am still shocked at the level of fees taken in some cases.
I am often called by creditors saying that they believed the company to be in X profit on their balance sheet or that the director had just bought a brand new car. Unfortunately its very easy for assets to be massively overstated in accounts and very far from their true value and for directors to brag about the car they have purchased but in reality is leased by them because of their need to brag about how well they are doing. I am currently dealing with a case where every creditor rings me up telling me the director just bought an Aston Martin - after investigation it is actually leased by him personally and it is also about to be repossessed by the finance company because he's missing payments left right and centre.
Bottom line is that the reality is usually very fair from what the creditors are told by the company - the directors are hardly going to tell their suppliers that they are in financial trouble because they'll drop them like a hot brick!
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff